Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[Arkay]

Yes, I think the way this works is that when RA says he killed his family, he said it figuratively, but when RA said he killed Libby and Abby, it's literally.

This has been discussed ad infinitum.

Libby and Abby are literally dead.
The Allen family is literally alive.

Hence RA was indubitably speaking figuratively regarding his family.

Not just my opinion, but facts.

 

[INfisherman]

@FrostedGlass please see below

@shonyakay Thank you for the confirmation on her direction - was reported in Indy Star as well from her testimony.

i found 2 different sources & each present overlapping testimony but each also report details missing from the other. I will offer brief summary (paraphrased) combining both sources & provide links afterwards. Feel free to poke holes or correct anything I may have overlooked or omitted.

SC was driving east on 300N, saw the group at the trail entrance looking stressed out. She continues east & passes muddy & bloody guy near the cemetery.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/?nxsparam=3

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

Knowing all that, we don't know where group was after SC passed them. BG could have retreated off 300N & snuck past group if he saw them first (south side of 300N, through woods of entrance but that’s risky). He could have waited until they left (likely less than 10min). Group could have gone down trail first, then BG gets lucky again & passes without leaving 300N. BG goes around both Mears & HH through fields to north & comes out NE from where he parks.

This all assumes the P story holds water, for fairness.

JMO

ETA punctuation

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here is the First Joint Stipulation Regarding Evidentiary Matters.
It's dated Oct 18 and was enterer into the CCS on Oct 24. I think it's this one:

Order Issued Order Re: Parties Stipulation on Evidentiary Matters. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Noticed: Auger, Jennifer Jones Order Signed: 10/18/2024​

[td]

10/24/2024​

[/td]​

First Joint Stipulation Regarding Evidentiary Matters

drive.google.com

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850306037682983033

 

[justtrish]

If they were gathering to search for the girls they probably left pretty quickly to get that search started. I doubt they were still standing around on that corner. IMO

If he was on the road when he had that encounter with SC, I'd imagine it might have spooked him somewhat. It sounds like she was very close to him and looking at the road and how narrow it is, I'd say that encounter might have caused him to walk back into the woodline a bit and if he could see people in the parking lot, I doubt he would just walk past them in that condition he was in.

 

[MassGuy]

I really think they should have done this. They had served the search warrant at that point, had seized what they needed, and likely could have afforded to wait until another lab had verified the analysis of the ISP examiner.

That would make that evidence far more solid, which is important in a case with no DNA evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850308356168175735

 

[photographer4]

She is about to go live for those interested...

 

[justtrish]

That’s assuming BG stayed on the road the entire time. That I am aware, we only know he was on 300N when SC passed him, not that he was in there the entire time, unless I’ve missed something. I will try and review & readdress our discussion in a bit. I’m more concerned with making sure I haven’t made an assumption. For some reason, I was under the impression the Mears farm was further east between cemetery & RL’s residence but have confirmed it’s just after the large west curve just prior to where 300N begins to head due E.

We don't know exactly how long he was walking along the road, but I'd say having a close encounter with SC in her car and being seen might have caused him to move more into the woods. I also think if he saw people in the parking area up ahead, he wouldn't just waltz right past them.

I have wondered if there is a video online somewhere that walks the exact route from the CS to the road and up to where he parked his car. I've seen a map, but it would be helpful to see someone actually walking it to see the terrain leaving the CS and where the most likely place to come out of the woods to the road is. It's really hard to get a feel for the entire area from a map and even seeing photos isn't always super clear on where there are steep hills or deep ravines or other obstacles.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850310263020343483

 

[shonyakay]

RA's confessions are going to corroborate all of the sworn testimony and the evidence brought out so far.

"You’ll hear Richard Allen in his own words telling his wife, his mom… (and others).. that he did it, how he did it, and why he did it." - Nick M.

In 61 + unsolicited and unprovoked confessions RA will place himself on the bridge.

Nick M. has already said RA admitted his motive was to sexually assault. A mixture of both girls' clothing was discovered in the creek. Abby was undressed at some point. Libby was found completely nude.

RA said he forced the girls' across the creek. The next day, Libby's jeans that Abby was wearing were damp/wet and the bottom of the sweatshirt had a water ring around it.

RA may admit he knows about the clothing switch. In the 3 day pre-trial hearings Nick alluded that Abby was dressed BEFORE she received her fatal injury.

RA admits he used a box cutter to inflict the girls' fatal wounds. The pathologist says their injuries are consistent with the use of a box cutter. LE looked for "sharp instruments" in early search warrants because they were not exactly sure what was used to cause the fatal wounds.

RA admits to using branches to attempt to cover the bodies. Was he possibly interrupted and that interruption is corroborated by evidence and/testimony?

Will he corroborate he was the man in the Carbaugh sighting or that he saw the family arriving?

So ready for next week's testimony.

It's too late to edit this post but just want to clarify RA doesn't say he was on the bridge 61 times but does admit he was in 1 or more of the confessions. I intended to place a comma but instead placed a period.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[INfisherman]

We don't know exactly how long he was walking along the road, but I'd say having a close encounter with SC in her car and being seen might have caused him to move more into the woods. I also think if he saw people in the parking area up ahead, he wouldn't just waltz right past them.

I have wondered if there is a video online somewhere that walks the exact route from the CS to the road and up to where he parked his car. I've seen a map, but it would be helpful to see someone actually walking it to see the terrain leaving the CS and where the most likely place to come out of the woods to the road is. It's really hard to get a feel for the entire area from a map and even seeing photos isn't always super clear on where there are steep hills or deep ravines or other obstacles.

I’m thinking he either got lucky & they weren’t there or he circled around to the north through the fields. I would be shocked if he went west (on or off 300N) & crossed by group anywhere near the group but south through wooded area - that’s a narrow area & much higher risk of being seen by someone around the trail.

Video might be challenging for those who do not wish to trespass, with all the private land N of creek.

 

[ClearAhead]

I think personally that there are some serious underlying issues- doesn’t mean he didn’t do it- and doesn’t mean he’s not guilty if he was there and didn’t do it- but there’s more to the story than he randomly snapped one day and acted solo- at least that’s my current theory- of sorts - moo

In the TMSpodcast KG was very careful to clarify that RA appeared healthy physically as opposed to overall. They have mentioned his unusual behavior a fair bit.

So I do wonder if RA’s mental health is ‘the elephant in the room’ for the jury?

MOO

 

[rez125]

"Firearms testing is as reliable as paternity testing".

Good grief I hope the jury saw through that nonsense comment.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@FrostedGlass please see below

@shonyakay Thank you for the confirmation on her direction - was reported in Indy Star as well from her testimony.

i found 2 different sources & each present overlapping testimony but each also report details missing from the other. I will offer brief summary (paraphrased) combining both sources & provide links afterwards. Feel free to poke holes or correct anything I may have overlooked or omitted.

SC was driving east on 300N, saw the group at the trail entrance looking stressed out. She continues east & passes muddy & bloody guy near the cemetery.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/?nxsparam=3

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

Knowing all that, we don't know where group was after SC passed them. BG could have retreated off 300N & snuck past group if he saw them first (south side of 300N, through woods of entrance but that’s risky). He could have waited until they left (likely less than 10min). Group could have gone down trail first, then BG gets lucky again & passes without leaving 300N. BG goes around both Mears & HH through fields to north & comes out NE from where he parks.

This all assumes the P story holds water, for fairness.

JMO

ETA punctuation

IMO
I think it's kind of hard to sneak through our fields in Feb.
Carbaugh said they were near the entrance; she was close enough to see one of the folks appeared to be stressed out
She also talks about the "Amber Alert". I'd have to check but I don't think the alert for missing girls went out at 4pm. If she drove by as a result of the alert, that part of her story doesn't hold water.

The important part for me is that she passed the Mears entrance and then saw the guy.
[snips]
Carbaugh said she uses the Mears entrance to the trail, the same as the girls used when they were dropped of on Feb. 13, 2017. Carbaugh says you can park four cars across at the entrance.

Carbaugh said she heard the Amber Alert for Abby and Libby when it was issued and drove by the Mears entrance three times.
She said around 4 p.m. that day, Carbaugh saw a group of people near the entrance. She said that included at least one person who was blonde, wearing a pink sweatshirt, and looking stressed out.

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[mom2chloe]

We don't know exactly how long he was walking along the road, but I'd say having a close encounter with SC in her car and being seen might have caused him to move more into the woods. I also think if he saw people in the parking area up ahead, he wouldn't just waltz right past them.

I have wondered if there is a video online somewhere that walks the exact route from the CS to the road and up to where he parked his car. I've seen a map, but it would be helpful to see someone actually walking it to see the terrain leaving the CS and where the most likely place to come out of the woods to the road is. It's really hard to get a feel for the entire area from a map and even seeing photos isn't always super clear on where there are steep hills or deep ravines or other obstacles.

I feel like Grey Hughes or someone affiliated with him had such a video. Anyone else recall? I can reach out to him for clarification too. Lmk

 

[photographer4]

IMO
I think it's kind of hard to sneak through our fields in Feb.
Carbaugh said they were near the entrance; she was close enough to see one of the folks appeared to be stressed out
She also talks about the "Amber Alert". I'd have to check but I don't think the alert for missing girls went out at 4pm. If she drove by as a result of the alert, that part of her story doesn't hold water.

The important part for me is that she passed the Mears entrance and then saw the guy.
[snips]
Carbaugh said she uses the Mears entrance to the trail, the same as the girls used when they were dropped of on Feb. 13, 2017. Carbaugh says you can park four cars across at the entrance.

Carbaugh said she heard the Amber Alert for Abby and Libby when it was issued and drove by the Mears entrance three times.
She said around 4 p.m. that day, Carbaugh saw a group of people near the entrance. She said that included at least one person who was blonde, wearing a pink sweatshirt, and looking stressed out.

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Why would there have been an Amber Alert for the girls on Feb 13, 2017 at all? They were not yet known or even thought to have been abducted???

"The child must be believed to be abducted, AND in danger of serious bodily harm or death."

Amber Alert Plan

www.in.gov

 

[ClearAhead]

"Firearms testing is as reliable as paternity testing".

Good grief I hope the jury saw through that nonsense comment.

This was corrected at the beginning of Holeman’s testimony today. He admitted it was his mistake. He misunderstood a prior conversation on topic of probabilities.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I’m thinking he either got lucky & they weren’t there or he circled around to the north through the fields. I would be shocked if he went west (on or off 300N) & crossed by group anywhere near the group but south through wooded area - that’s a narrow area & much higher risk of being seen by someone around the trail.

Video might be challenging for those who do not wish to trespass, with all the private land N of creek.

Keep in mind that there's a timeline for all this to happen. They have Carbaugh's car on the HHS cam.

 

[photographer4]

This was corrected at the beginning of Holeman’s testimony today. He admitted it was his mistake. He misunderstood a prior conversation on topic of probabilities.

His testimony today was a trainwreck imo. I'm watching Andrea Burkhart doing a live right now and she has raised a lot of concerns already about his testimony...

From the write up below the stream.

 

[mom2chloe]

Why would there have been an Amber Alert for the girls on Feb 13, 2017 at all? They were not yet known or even thought to have been abducted???

"The child must be believed to be abducted, AND in danger of serious bodily harm or death."

Amber Alert Plan

www.in.gov

There was not an Amber alert issued because this didnt meet the criteria. It’s disappointing but I feel the locals did all they could despite that. And then we jumped in.