Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[minor4th]

That’s why it got excluded from the trial?

<modsnip> I think that was an incorrect ruling on her part.

 

[sunshineray]

Generally, character evidence is not admissible against a criminal defendant.

I suppose if he was yelling, I did it, I killed them both!! Get me my lawyers here NOW or I'll kill you!

Would that be an exception? That kind of statement?

Makes one wonder just what got him so mad at County Jail that he threatened to kill the guard, because IMO, those are some strong words...I'll kill you! And now the jury has heard he said them.

 

[minor4th]

I suppose if he was yelling, I did it, I killed them both!! Get me my lawyers here NOW or I'll kill you!

Would that be an exception? That kind of statement?

Makes one wonder just what got him so mad at County Jail that he threatened to kill the guard, because IMO, those are some strong words...I'll kill you! And now the jury has heard he said them.

Well yes if it’s an admission related to these crimes it would be allowed.

 

[Teche]

Judge Gull enters the courtroom and says she has viewed the video. Rozzi objects, Gull says she is sustaining the objection and the video will not be shown to the jury for now.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

Maybe the prosecution will be able to show this in their rebuttal?

For now?

 

[MiniMoo]

While the Odin stuff is uber cringy and I really hope the defense doesn’t try and sell that to the jury, I DON’T think they are deluding themselves at all! The defense hasn’t even had their turn yet and I have doubts that he is guilty

I'm waiting to see what the Defense will bring to the table, but don't feel any Odin stuff will sit well with anyone if that is the way they choose to go.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[statt#1]

Has stress or incredulousness never cause you to say, I'm going crazy or It's making me crazy...nuts or I must be losing my mind...I'm losing it? I've certainly done that. JMO

For example....I can't find my sunglasses...uhhh, my dear, they're on top of your head! HA! I must be losing my mind!

I could argue anybody who slices the throats of two young girls and watches 'em bleed out has long ago lost their mind.

And indeed, if this guy is a real alcoholic, and had to cold turkey stop drinking while held in prison, there's a whole litany of discussion that could be had relative to that potential scenario.

I still think when he said he's losing his mind, he meant....I'm going crazy here with all this....I don't think he was self diagnosing a grave mental illness. The charges, the reality that he's the suspect, the images swimming in the confines of his mind of that fateful day, knowing he murdered these girls, knowing exactly how he did, having his wife tell him he didn't, when he knows he did....yeah, nothing more than saying HEY, this stuff is driving me crazy here.

My opinion, for sure!

 

[Deleted member 296739]

The concept of legal insanity and medical insanity are not the same. Legal insanity (in a very general sense) deals with a person's ability to distinguish right from wrong.

FWIW- the facts that he said he was crazy and said he did it are demonstrated
So in my opinion…
Logically there are 4 options between legally insane and medically insane- and one isn’t plausible/ likely-
1) yes to both-
2) legally sane - mentally insane
3) legally insane- mentally sane
4) no to both

1) is an option - and statement about being crazy is true and unknown if his confessions are true or if guilty or not,
2) would be if he knew right from wrong in a general sense and has since deteriorated and made the statements under duress statements of being crazy are true and confessions could be false
3) didn’t know right from wrong, isn’t crazy, but said he was crazy which is false and said he’s guilty which could be true but if he doesn’t know right from wrong saying he’s guilty doesn’t mean much -I don’t see this as probable
4) not insane by any definition but lucid and faking to try and get away with the crime -

Not speaking to which is the “right” one and I might be missing some options- moo

 

[Inthedetails]

I don’t think there was ever a suggestion that he was insane when these crimes were committed. The insane behavior didn’t start until he had been in solitary for several months.

Someone upthread wondered why he didn't take an insanity plea, which would require insanity at the time of the crime. I was responding to that conversation.

jmo

 

[Ravenmoon]

How does Kathy Allen saying that negate what Richard Allen said about losing his mind?

I think the prosecutions case has made it very clear that Richard Allen was suffering from psychosis and the defense hasn’t even put their case on.

Using Richard Allen’s words of “I’m loosing my mind” to prove he’s sane is a weird reach imo

Maybe he was losing his mind?
That doesn't mean that he is not guilty.
Just my opinion:
He had years of escape through drinking.
He admits to being a monster in his younger life and says that he "might" have touched his own daughter.
Drinking made him numb for a very long time... it's no longer an option.
Can you begin to imagine how hard hit this person has been now that he HAS to face what he has done?
Of course he feels like he is in Hell, but it's the Hell that he created.

AJMO

 

[Mitch1]

So like, how many of y’all who think he is absolutely guilty would (after this case) volunteer that you were somewhere on the same day and time a murdered occurred?

 

[Salah11]

I think it got excluded because the judge is very biased against the defense. I think that was an incorrect ruling on her part.

It had nothing to do with zero factual proof?!

 

[Ravenmoon]

Why did the prison forcibly give him an anti psychotic drug more than once when they claim he was of sound mind and not psychotic

Because he ate his own poop?
(Haloperidol can be prescribed for that reason.)

 

[dub]

I'd wondered similarly, particularly since I know very little about how, for example, amicus and sub judice rules apply in the US.

I was pretty shocked by the seeming ethical violations and also the diagnostic elasticity of the clinical psych yesterday --distinctly at odds with the oath and professional obligations I hold dear, and I'm baffled by how she seems to have been approved as an expert witness, in light of qualifications and ongoing investigations. A witness, perhaps, but an expert? She seems to have vacillated between diagnoses of RA as genuinely experiencing psychosis and "faking" symptoms of same, the shredding of original notes as a standard of her clinical practice (!!! I shared this one with my surgical colleagues), listening in on phone calls and the apparent recanting or reframing of substantial parts of her original diagnosis.

Yes, the confessions are damning but should she ever have testified? Again, not a lawyer but struck me as a properly contentious topic.

It's an odd thing. I think RA is almost certainly BG and almost certainly guilty. But so much about this case and trial seems wayward from the POV of evenhandeness. Is this feeling illusory? Or are there genuine issues with the way this case and trial are being handled (setting aside the theatrics and hyperbolic narratives, etc)?

Re: the diagnostic elasticity and the concept of psychosis vs faking it, I don’t see why both can’t be true at differing points. For example:

-in prison, RA underwent a legit significant deterioration in his mental health

-at certain points, he was consciously acting “crazier” than he actually was

-at some point (or more than once) he may have crossed over into actual psychosis for some period of time

I actually think this is extremely plausible, and what frustrates me (among other things) is that it feels like Wala was so close to getting it.


I cannot emphasize enough that this is not my professional opinion, it’s just one scenario that seems reasonable to me.

 

[mrjitty]

? This?
Later, officer Jason Bedwell, at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility, said Allen made another statement earlier this year that he was sorry for what he did, and that he killed the girls.

Jurors hear about Richard Allen's prison confessions in Delphi trial

Jurors watched two video interrogations of Richard Allen, one on Oct. 13, 2022 and another on Oct. 26, 2022, the same day Allen was arrested.

www.indystar.com

going to be tough to explain that one?

 

[Salah11]

So like, how many of y’all who think he is absolutely guilty would (after this case) volunteer that you were somewhere on the same day and time a murdered occurred?

I would as I would have absolutely zero to hide. I have the upmost respect for the police and believe ultimately they protect society.

 

[tlcya]

So like, how many of y’all who think he is absolutely guilty would (after this case) volunteer that you were somewhere on the same day and time a murdered occurred?

me. If I was there and a possible witness to anything that might be helpful I would have no reason not to volunteer that info to LE. Your question presumes RA is not guilty. MOO

My answer is based on my own moral compass and has nothing to do with RA or this case.

 

[tlcya]

Why did the prison forcibly give him an anti psychotic drug more than once when they claim he was of sound mind and not psychotic

why did the defense not attempt to have him evaluated and declared incompetent to stand trial or assist in his own defense if he was flinging and eating his own poo and psychotic?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

why did the defense not attempt to have him evaluated and declared incompetent to stand trial or assist in his own defense if he was flinging and eating his own poo and psychotic?

That baffles me completely- moo

 

[NoeticSoul]

why did the defense not attempt to have him evaluated and declared incompetent to stand trial or assist in his own defense if he was flinging and eating his own poo and psychotic?

Cuz, they probably knew it was all an act..
moo

 

[Inthedetails]

why did the defense not attempt to have him evaluated and declared incompetent to stand trial or assist in his own defense if he was flinging and eating his own poo and psychotic?

Because the Odinists made him do it?

jmo