Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[MassGuy]

It's not exculpatory evidence but the prosecution literally tried to submit evidence in the form of a video today without providing it during discovery, that's unacceptable

They wouldn’t have had it during discovery. This was a recent video obtained from the jail.

 

[dub]

To me it’s quite plausible that RA developed disordered thinking due to the stress of being caught. That does not mean his statements are false. He may well have been unable to maintain the deception in his disordered state.

What does seem to be true is he was a danger to himself. Again not a great surprise.

Your entire post was 100% on point, but RSBM for focus.

I’m really glad you brought this up. If he was in true psychosis then reality might be entirely out the window, but yeah the VAST majority of disordered thinking is rooted in reality to an extent, and usually has a significant amount of reality in it.

RA’s statement “I think I’ve lost my mind” is a perfect encapsulation of being grounded in reality but seeing it through a somewhat distorted lens.

And that is NOT something I would expect to hear from someone who was actively going through psychosis.

 

[girlhasnoname]

IIRC, KA also stated "we’re all losing our minds too" or something to that effect (paraphrasing). So crazy talking to crazy could be implied, no?

JMO

I think they have a very codependent dysfunctional relationship. KA calls LE to their home in 2015 for a domestic disturbance and ends up taking him herself to the hospital. This isn't RA's first rodeo. JMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I think some of us who haven't been to prison, me included, pictured solitary confinement as being a small concrete room alone in the dark for days or weeks at a time with no other human contact save a surly guard bringing food once or twice a day.

But it sounds as if the solitary RA was subjected to actually was more of a protective custodial type of solitary. He had his tablet, he had regular phone calls with loved ones (when they would agree to take them), he had his "companion prisoners" watching him to ensure he didn't harm himself, and he had Dr. Wala. Not quite what I was thinking when defense described him as being in solitary and his days being devoid of human contact.

Prison communications are not always easy or free- and conditions vary from facility to facility- it’s not on demand human interaction necessarily and privileges can be lost and lights always on and constant surveillance isn’t pleasant- so I understand the concerns of 13 months pretrial detention in isolation on suicide watch as being a possible due process violation- I know more about the DOC system than I want to from fosters sons and their friends’ experiences- and I have to agree with the concerns about being held pretrial in a state prison OR county jail on suicide watch or on an elevated supervision unit- moo - from personal experience

 

[KSwizzle]

They wouldn’t have had it during discovery. This was a recent video obtained from the jail.

Ok, I'm not a lawyer but surely there's a process for sharing the defense with evidence you want to present, even if it's after the trial has started where the jury doesn't hear about it and both sides can have a hearing with the judge on whether it is permissble MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It’s also a good way to record inmates’ conversations- moo

All prisoners phone calls are subject to recording and monitoring. It's clearly stated up front.
MOO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Yes, after reading the description of his cell, amenities and activities, he was not in solitary confinement. Solitary is sensory deprivation for long periods of time. A small room with 24 hr a day lights and almost no contact with the outside world. No books, tv bed, windows, nothing.

I feel like the public has been lied to by the D, claiming he was in solitary. He wasn't.

IIRC
he was on suicide watch and elevated/close supervision- not solitary confinement technically- but isolated and heightened surveillance- I might be misremembering-

 

[MiniMoo]

Intentionally withholding exculpatory evidence is grounds for serious sanctions.

There is no evidence of this whatsoever.

It's not exculpatory evidence but the prosecution literally tried to submit evidence in the form of a video today without providing it during discovery, that's unacceptable

That last minute submission of that video was unacceptable.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Inthedetails]

That last minute submission of that video was unacceptable.

JMO MOO JMT

And the judge ruled against it, at least for now.

The prosecution has rested.

jmo

 

[MiniMoo]

I think they have a very codependent dysfunctional relationship. KA calls LE to their home in 2015 for a domestic disturbance and ends up taking him herself to the hospital. This isn't RA's first rodeo. JMO

Is there a source as that is my first time reading about it.

JMT

 

[Betty P]

Well no. It’s not like that….maybe in the movies of yesteryear but progression and all that!

That's my impression, too. He was in protective custody, preventing him from harming himself or being harmed by other inmates. He seemed to have a comfortable environment with amenities to keep him occupied. It sounds a lot like the county jail cells where the Wagner family members were kept while awaiting trial. They were the family who murdered 8 members of the Rhoden Family over a custody battle.

The Wagner family members have all been kept in separate county jails, but they have decent rooms, tablets, communal room privileges, allowed books for reading, regular exercise out and indoor, commissary privileges, etc. One of them, George Wagner IV, refused to mingle in the common area with the other prisoners for a long time, but the others got along well. Their family and friends are able to send them care packages, etc.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

All prisoners phone calls are subject to recording and monitoring. It's clearly stated up front.
MOO

Yes- but with the tablets vs kiosks or phones- each inmate has one vs taking turns, so more conversations can take place simultaneously and provide additional opportunities to collect information- the original question was about having tablets in cells- moo

 

[minor4th]

They wouldn’t have had it during discovery. This was a recent video obtained from the jail.

They still have to turn it over to defense before trying to have it admitted as evidence. And since it’s basically character evidence, there are stricter notice rules and a hearing is required before they could seek to have it admitted.

This was underhanded by the prosecution- they knew they wouldn’t get it admitted but they got to ask the question and influence the jury anyway.

 

[minor4th]

Ok, I'm not a lawyer but surely there's a process for sharing the defense with evidence you want to present, even if it's after the trial has started where the jury doesn't hear about it and both sides can have a hearing with the judge on whether it is permissble MOO

There is. The prosecution knows this. It was not a “mistake .”

 

[minor4th]

Yes, after reading the description of his cell, amenities and activities, he was not in solitary confinement. Solitary is sensory deprivation for long periods of time. A small room with 24 hr a day lights and almost no contact with the outside world. No books, tv bed, windows, nothing.

I feel like the public has been lied to by the D, claiming he was in solitary. He wasn't.

It was solitary. He was in a small cell by himself with no interaction with others. No outside privileges, etc.

 

[Betty P]

It's not exculpatory evidence but the prosecution literally tried to submit evidence in the form of a video today without providing it during discovery, that's unacceptable

Its a recent video.

 

[WildHuncher]

As is our right like the ones here who think RA is innocent. Neither groups are jurors and we are entitled to our opinions based on the evidence as we interpret it. Thank goodness free thinking is still acceptable.

MOO

The probable cause affidavit was totally convincing for me. I see nothing to apologize for in that. I saw it when I saw it. A lot more people are seeing it now.

 

[Betty P]

It was solitary. He was in a small cell by himself with no interaction with others. No outside privileges, etc.

I'm sorry, that's not what I read. Until he began receiving discovery documents, he was attended by other inmates who were there to alert authorities if he became suicidal or self-destructive. He took showers like the other inmates, 3 times a week. He was allowed and encouraged to exercise outside of his cell. He had 2 tablets, books, etc. He could watch tv or movies on his tablet. He was allowed phone calls.

 

[minor4th]

Is this rumor or do you have something proving this as fact?

This is fact and has been admitted by the prosecution in pre-trial hearings.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Well when you actually committed the murders, it's not a good idea to tell LE you were there. Especially when you go on to tell them you were wearing the same clothes as BG, and saw the same people who claim to have seen you.

Questions without answers at this point: Did he feel forced by wife to speak with LE? Or, as I’ve previously mentioned several times now, maybe RA was somewhat paranoid that his name would eventually be linked to BG having been on trail at the same time as the girls disappeared and possibly recognized similar characteristics. Especially since during a conversation with friend who owned pool hall, friend stated RA looked similar to BG. Poster of BG was seen actually hanging in pool hall.

Just my thoughts and opinions.