VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[sunshineray]

He doesn’t, IMO it sounds like someone in a completely hopeless place in completely hopeless circumstances and has just completely given up and in that moment just signaling to his wife to start accepting he isn’t getting out and maybe move on

Respectfully and IMO, that doesn't ring with the truth at all.

 

[BexLuth0r]

I'm putting little weight on any facial descriptions the witnesses described. They should really have said that they didn't have a good enough view to offer a description. But I get they probably felt pressure to offer something because of the enormity of the event.
One of the group of girls was friends with Liberty and must've been racking her brains to remember the slightest of detail and the burden of responsility to offer what she saw must have been huge.
I also think Betsy Blair wasn't in a position to offer finer details of a person's facial features. She was a fair distance away.
But identifying what someone is wearing is far simpler than trying to detail any facial features. Take the video of Bridge guy as a case in point. I think we can all pretty easily describe what he is wearing. But describing facial features is all but impossible.

I agree with everything you said. I forgot one of the girls was Libby's friend. That must have been horrific. I think you can actually take more weight on them all saying it was definitely BG that they saw. If we take their facial descriptions to account, that means there's at least 4 BG's wandering around on the trail that day. But there was only one. So I think it's safer to say they saw BG and have struggled to identify anything definite about him.

 

[INfisherman]

IMO
It took took longer for the killer to take those girls across the creek and up the bank than it did for the van to drive to the house.

If the killer was scared by seeing the van, it would have been really brazen to take naked girls to the creek where they could clearly be seen crossing.

I’m not understanding where the clearly seen comes in? There’s a wooded area between the gravel road & the creek. If the van gets to the house first, it’s even further away & more woods. I also don’t recall anyone stating whether the van was seen or heard (hard to sneak down a gravel lane in a vehicle) but I could be mistaken. Just about every part of the crime was brazen - middle of the day, people on the trails, van shows up, clothes strewn along the creek, running down the road muddy & bloody.

Just trying to see through your eyes, not arguing.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

There should be civil action taken by the families against AB for allowing the crime scene photos leak, just straight up gross negligence on his part, IMO. And it's possible by the 5 men publically called murderers with not one shred of admissible evidence, Also JMO

I read upthread that attorneys can’t be sued. Curious, as Barry Morphew tried to sue someone.

 

[Megnut]

IMO
It took took longer for the killer to take those girls across the creek and up the bank than it did for the van to drive to the house.

If the killer was scared by seeing the van, it would have been really brazen to take naked girls to the creek where they could clearly be seen crossing.

Any movement would only draw attention. More likely, he waited until the van passed by them, and then moved across the creek and away from the access road.

JMO

 

[cherrybier]

There should be civil action taken by the families against AB for allowing the crime scene photos leak, just straight up gross negligence on his part, IMO. And it's possible by the 5 men publically called murderers with not one shred of admissible evidence, Also JMO

That's already been explained.

The defense attorney's won't be sued.

 

[sunshineray]

That's already been explained.

The defense attorney's won't be sued.

Then I guess it will have to be MW

 

[girlhasnoname]

LL feels very strongly that the geofencing and 3rd party stuff not being allowed in will be a big issue for the state on appeal (if RA is convicted).

It's deplorable the D was hamstrung at various points throughout this trial imo.

I think they did a stellar job with what they were allowed to argue.

I have to disagree with LL, I find the Defense and THEIR actions deplorable throughtout this case, the total opposite of a competent and vigorous defense. It was the Rozzi and Baldwin Big Top Show. Glad RA can't appeal on grounds of ineffective counsel since he chose to have them reinstated during the SCOIN Oral Arguments.

The appeals of course will happen, as they typically do.<modsnip - off topic>

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

#JUSTICE4ABBY&LIBBY
FELONY FRIDAY HOPEFULLY​

 

[sunshineray]

Sweet darling girls <3

 

[FrostedGlass]

I’m not understanding where the clearly seen comes in? There’s a wooded area between the gravel road & the creek. If the van gets to the house first, it’s even further away & more woods. I also don’t recall anyone stating whether the van was seen or heard (hard to sneak down a gravel lane in a vehicle) but I could be mistaken. Just about every part of the crime was brazen - middle of the day, people on the trails, van shows up, clothes strewn along the creek, running down the road muddy & bloody.

Just trying to see through your eyes, not arguing.

JMO

MOO based on researching
The house sits on top of the high hill. From it there is a clear view of the creek.
And yes, people can be seen from that distance. MOO

While on top of the south end of the bridge, a vehicle could be seen passing under it. I'm not sure how much of the drive can be seen from the bottom of the hill.

If he was really scared by the vehicle, he could have taken them around the base of the hill and killed them there. MOO

 

[AugustWest]

I read upthread that attorneys can’t be sued. Curious, as Barry Morphew tried to sue someone.

Morphew was suing the State for malicious prosecution. Not the attorneys in their individual capacities.

 

[iamshadow21]

I don’t disagree at all & appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself more clearly. I make no distinction between any of them, as that gives people like that too much credit. The photos all originated from one source & the piggies continue to return to the trough to be fed.

All good though.

MOO

Well, we already know the original leak is a nonstarter. Which I am also angry about.

If they can trace this latest leak to an individual, maybe at least the families with be able to sue someone.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Would you consider condensation as covered in water? Descriptions of clothing didn’t seem to indicate there was water standing.

ETA had it been standing water, we could probably deduce the description would more than likely have been covered in water & mud rather than water & dirt. Without seeing the photos, we’re left with this, unfortunately.

JMO

In my mind, covered in water means just that.
The phone was under the shoe and both were under her hip. The temps fluctuated; I'm clueless about possible exterior condensation.

 

[INfisherman]

MOO based on researching
The house sits on top of the high hill. From it there is a clear view of the creek.
And yes, people can be seen from that distance. MOO

While on top of the south end of the bridge, a vehicle could be seen passing under it. I'm not sure how much of the drive can be seen from the bottom of the hill.

If he was really scared by the vehicle, he could have taken them around the base of the hill and killed them there. MOO

Sure but there is still tall trees between the house & the lowland area around the creek. BW got home, went inside, smoked & took a nap everyday stuff. If he gets home before the crossing, then it makes it much less likely they’re seen unless he walks northward away from the house or is gazing out the windows. Plus, the actual creek bed appears to have a decent drop from the S woods.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just suggesting BW probably wasn’t looking for anything out of the ordinary. My family owns a farm with a 3/4 mile long gravel lane going back to the house. I’ve driven down to the end & never noticed cousins plowing fields or deer running through them before & there’s zero trees anywhere along that lane - it’s farm ground 5 feet from each side of the gravel. That’s part of what makes this case so difficult. Maybe the killer just had a run of unbelievable luck from the end of the bridge to the "escape" - granted, allegedly seen but avoided the HH camera somehow & no info on cars leaving, etc.

 

[BexLuth0r]

I'm not sure if this was ever brought up at trial but I have been thinking... if RA was suffering from psychosis (which it seems both sides agree could have happened) how does he describe details to the crime? I know people would argue through discovery, but is he realistically going to be lucid enough to read this documentation, process all the information and then provide details about said crime scene if he is suffering psychosis? I'm not a psychologist but would be interested to know if this has been discussed/argued at trial

 

[Tealgrove]

I just started listening. Anyone interested, they note that RA's family all were in court today: daughter, mom, stepdad, half sister, and wife.

A show of unity instrumented by Baldwin and Rozzi. I don’t think the daughter would be there if she didn’t have to. Was her husband there as well?

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

"cell phone covered in water and dirt"
How can that be? That description sounds like it was more than just wet. Was the ground so wet under Abby's body that it covered the phone? If so, then how is it possible there were no drag marks from Libby's body being dragged from one spot to the other?

There were drag marks in blood on Libby's backside as testified to by Cicero on Day 3 of the late August hearings. MOO

 

[INfisherman]

Well, we already know the original leak is a nonstarter. Which I am also angry about.

If they can trace this latest leak to an individual, maybe at least the families with be able to sue someone.

MOO

Tell me about it - it happened in my hometown. It’s quite offensive. In a week some will be having drinks laughing about it at the local watering holes more than likely. Just living their lives…..pffft.

One can only hope there’s follow-up as such.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

If convicted, what will there be to appeal? 5 men with alibis and no connection to the crimes committed, no nexus at all?

Appeals are brought to address errors in the proceedings. Appeals don't necessarily have to do with the case itself, but how the court system handled it, decisions made, etc.

I am not a lawyer.

jmo