VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

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Their clothes were soaked crossing the creek.
In the three day hearings the blood expert did mention drag marks.
That's one of the things that will be debatable.
[snip]
"The defense also singled out testimony from Pat Cicero, the state’s blood spatter expert. Cicero testified that he believed Libby German’s body had been moved. The defense contended that no drag marks are visible in crime scene photos, lending credence to the possibility that multiple people carried the body from one place to another."
 
In my mind, covered in water means just that.
The phone was under the shoe and both were under her hip. The temps fluctuated; I'm clueless about possible exterior condensation.
When it doesn’t freeze, go outside of a morning between 6 & 7:30 am & let me know what you see on the vehicles parked outside. Similar weather right now as in mid-Feb. Once the sun hits it, the vehicles look like they’ve been through a car wash for a short period of time. If not, let me know & I’ll take a picture.

My backyard is covered in leaves & were dry & "crunchy" yesterday evening. Zero rain last night but they’re all soft & wet this morning. High humidity & time of year. Happens every year, around now & then again in late winter/early spring. Not too hard to imagine given everyone & their brother described 2/13 as unseasonably warm & the following night as quite/very cold.
 
I've heard the defense's closing statement was a big crash and burn. A lot of nothing about important things and in-depth on minuscule details that real mattered not in the big picture...not making much hay at all.

Then it was bizzaro land at the end with drawings of medieval tortures trying to make comparisons to RA's conditions in prison. Hummm, ok.

The big finale picture/drawing being a huge snake wrapped around a man squeezing the life out of him. Supposely representing everyman being overcome by the "government", the snake...if this jury was to convict RA. Yeah sounded like quite the show! I wonder if AB had the decency to cringe inside at the ridiculousness being presented by his co-council?

I've never felt more certain that JG had it so right in DQ-ing the two, no matter this jury's verdict. Unfortunately she kindly wanted to help them save face instead of airing it all out right then and there, on the record. All the above AJMO

I think the Snake is a very fitting symbol for the Defense to represent/reference. JMO
 
MOO based on researching
The house sits on top of the high hill. From it there is a clear view of the creek.
And yes, people can be seen from that distance. MOO

While on top of the south end of the bridge, a vehicle could be seen passing under it. I'm not sure how much of the drive can be seen from the bottom of the hill.

If he was really scared by the vehicle, he could have taken them around the base of the hill and killed them there. MOO
He came home and went inside to sleep. He wasn't looking for anyone. Goodness now somehow it's suspicious that BW came home and didn't see the happenings going on quite the distance away. You can't know for sure what could or couldn't be seen from where BW got out of his vehicle and went into his house unless you're standing right where he stood. MO
 
Murder Sheets details about the last thing the state said before the jury got the case.

Nick McLeland:

The two victims in this case are Liberty German and Abigail Williams. They are more than victims, they are also heroes. Libby German made the video and Abby Williams died hiding the phone. Both of them worked to camouflage the bullet.

Becky Patty once said that Libby German told her she wanted to grow up and help the police solve crimes. That is exactly what she did, and she brought Abby Williams along to help her do that.
 
That's one of the things that will be debatable.
[snip]
"The defense also singled out testimony from Pat Cicero, the state’s blood spatter expert. Cicero testified that he believed Libby German’s body had been moved. The defense contended that no drag marks are visible in crime scene photos, lending credence to the possibility that multiple people carried the body from one place to another."
And he described what he saw in the photos, with all his experience backing him. The D may have tried to singled it out but did not lessen the expert testimony. MO Can I ask what would it prove anyway, if there were no visible drag marks? Were not talking a very big distance, under 10 feet, IIRC. And the back of Libby's legs showed evidence in blood, streak marks, of her being dragged through the area of pooled blood.
 
another conspiracy promoted pretrial that won’t die.

MOO

Yeh, the idea that an officer dropped the cartridge fails the logic test:
1) More than 1 officer was at the scene at all times. So it would take a conspiracy of more than 1 person to plant it there.
2) The vast majority of LE personnel at the crime scene were trained crime scene forensic lab workers who don't carry a gun. A crime scene is taped off to stop the general public AND other LE from contaminating the scene. So only certain specific designated LE are even allowed to cross the line.
3) If it was put there by LE, they would have to have ejected it ahead of time and have known to frame RA even though they had not seen the BG video at that point.

I could go on and on but probably not worth it.
 
I'm not sure if this was ever brought up at trial but I have been thinking... if RA was suffering from psychosis (which it seems both sides agree could have happened) how does he describe details to the crime? I know people would argue through discovery, but is he realistically going to be lucid enough to read this documentation, process all the information and then provide details about said crime scene if he is suffering psychosis? I'm not a psychologist but would be interested to know if this has been discussed/argued at trial
NM mentioned it in rebuttal yesterday.

When Allen made his chronological confession of the events of Feb. 13, 2017, “his words were logical, chronological, and he talked about details only the killer would know.”

The confession was not made to a stranger; it was to his IDOC clinical psychologist, Dr. Wala.

“He trusted Dr. Wala. He wanted her there when he called his wife to confess to killing Abby and Libby. He trusted her.”

When Becky Patty testified, she said Libby said, “Someday I’m going to grow up and help police solve crimes. That’s exactly what she did, and she brought Abby along to help her.

“The evidence shows Richard Allen is Bridge Guy, and Richard Allen killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”


 
Coming on here today to read that CS photos of Abby and Libby are doing the rounds on FB broke my heart. I hope whoever is revictimising them never gets a full night of good sleep again. Vile.

Justice for Abby & Libby soon.

I don't feel hopeful. Sometimes a brave girl can do everything she can, sometimes they can be as aware as they can, as smart as they can, but a bad person wins.

And sometimes that person walks free because people love a good, salacious conspiracy story.

I don't think the LE did the best possible job in the whole entire world. They did the best they could for the experience and manpower they had.

I don't know what the DT's excuse. Dragging in hair and people who couldn't have been involved. I understand how this is an adversarial system I understand creating doubt and vigorous defence, but what about morals? What about a code of conduct? Is there anything that is sacred?

Absolutely disgusted this morning. I hope against hope the jury proves me wrong and reason prevails.

All MOO.
 
He came home and went inside to sleep. He wasn't looking for anyone. Goodness now somehow it's suspicious that BW came home and didn't see the happenings going on quite the distance away. You can't know for sure what could or couldn't be seen from where BW got out of his vehicle and went into his house unless you're standing right where he stood. MO
I never even hinted at this part you said: "Goodness now somehow it's suspicious that BW came home and didn't see the happenings going on quite the distance away."
 
That's one of the things that will be debatable.
[snip]
"The defense also singled out testimony from Pat Cicero, the state’s blood spatter expert. Cicero testified that he believed Libby German’s body had been moved. The defense contended that no drag marks are visible in crime scene photos, lending credence to the possibility that multiple people carried the body from one place to another."
Yeah, that's according to the Franks by the Defense which was ruled inadmissible. Cicero had crime scene photos that showed drag marks on the back of Libby's thighs and bum. If dragged by her arm, like suggested and marked in the CS sketches, it makes perfect sense and explains how her arm was left above her head.

I think RA had a perverse reason to want Libby and Abby to be looking towards each other as they died. MOO
 
Coming on here today to read that CS photos of Abby and Libby are doing the rounds on FB broke my heart. I hope whoever is revictimising them never gets a full night of good sleep again. Vile.

Justice for Abby & Libby soon.

I don't feel hopeful. Sometimes a brave girl can do everything she can, sometimes they can be as aware as they can, as smart as they can, but a bad person wins.

And sometimes that person walks free because people love a good, salacious conspiracy story.

I don't think the LE did the best possible job in the whole entire world. They did the best they could for the experience and manpower they had.

I don't know what the DT's excuse. Dragging in hair and people who couldn't have been involved. I understand how this is an adversarial system I understand creating doubt and vigorous defence, but what about morals? What about a code of conduct? Is there anything that is sacred?

Absolutely disgusted this morning. I hope against hope the jury proves me wrong and reason prevails.

All MOO.
I hope the jury proves you wrong too.

It feels like, atm in a lot of cases, there has to be a conspiracy or there has to be corrupt police. It can't be as simple as poor LE work and a misplaced tip etc.
Heck there's even people with Bryan Kohberger arguing that he can't possibly have been there and the DNA is a coincidence or a plant.

I do not want to see an innocent man put in jail but I honestly feel like there are too many coincidences and they are all pointing to him.

6 minutes until jury deliberations continue. I hope today they nail him if they see fit.
 
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