VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[Emma Peel]

This is a very good point.

I started this Trial because I have a daughter who was the same age as Abby when this occurred and at the time it impacted the sense of foreboding I had as a parent allowing her to explore and be a kid in our very rural area. It was sort of a wake up call to me that I could not assume safety. In a way, it stripped from me the feeling that I was providing a place for my kids to grow up with similar freedom and innocence as I had the gift of growing up in.

However, I did not follow this when it was a case. I was not privy to the frustrations in the investigation. I was unaware of any other POI, or theory. I quite literally started this trial as close to a juror as could be. I knew the basics. 2 girls on a hike end up leaving this life in a brutal fashion. I had seen the 2 sketches, and other than a passing wonder, how could they appear so different, no additional thought. I had heard the creepy DTH audio, and saw a still of BG but could not have described his clothing even remotely. I did not even know the defendants name.

Because I was this way and there were so many threads, I decided to try this trial in a way I have not previously. I have tried to skim the threads, and read the MSM posting of the testimony. I have not gone back to motions, or theories to consider what was previous. I have had some exposure to it from general discussion in skimming the threads, but other than the Odinism name in the threads I still do not know what exactly that is supposed to suggest happened.

With this in mind I can tell you I was shocked as I learned the COD was from sharp force trauma. I was first introduced to the idea of a box cutter from the testimony. I did pick up that was an afterthought, but then I think most reports will have additions or afterthoughts for clarity as time passes and experts reflect on their findings, so I do not find this point to be a problem. I then learned for the first time that RA reports being on the trails. I learn of witnesses that clearly identify BG as someone they saw. I agree that witness testimony is not completely aligned, but I am open in my thoughts since I too, played the game in college where we got exposed to something and then after the incident had passed were challenged to describe the person or thing. I tend to view eyewitness testimony as guidance because of this.

By this stage I was thinking. Yes, BG was on the trails. RA was on the trails, and RA seems to be wavering on his time at the trails. That wavering makes me curious, but not sure it is him.

I then hear how the crime occurs from DTH to where the crime finished. The testimony was clear, and heartbreaking, but left me with no doubt BG is the killer. But BG is not necessarily RA.

Then the bullet. I am inclined to accept the bullet marks as identifying. This may be from my background in failure analysis and decades of seeing microscopic marks and trying to assign identifying features that identify where a failure is occurring, it also could be the one time I broke my try to be a juror approach and did my own anecdotal test on cartridge extraction. Either way, I place a high value on the cartridge being linked to the gun RA owns. Especially with the unique identifier pointed out where the ejector has an anomaly which was also highlighted in a juror question to the Defense expert. I am now at RA=BG=Killer.

Then I heard confessions, and in some ways this began to make me reconsider my thoughts. I think there was plenty of crazy utterances and "confessions" that were not worthy of being presented. However, once the white van confession was presented, and the logic in how that confession started the search for a white van, and that white van was indeed found and placed near the crime scene, and at the time just right to explain the distraction mentioned in the confession. I can not accept that confession is not based on knowledge only held by the killer. Psychosis or not the details support the veracity in my opinion. I was moved and impacted by the defense and their experts. I absolutely feel there was excited utterances of guilt and that is likely due to psychosis. I also agree the isolation may have caused or exacerbated those. It still does not change the details that were backed up by the van being there at the right time in the right place.

I have listened to the defense I considered their counters. I find the counter ejector mark expert weak, in many ways he discounts his own expertise by discounting approved accepted standards, to then simply say the most important tool he has is himself....

So I as a juror would be entering the deliberations from the perspective that the state proved the case and vote guilty.

Sorry for the novel, but thought it would be interesting sharing the perspective having come in without background knowledge on all the details.

Obviously my opinion only.

I did find your experience of the info at trial to be very very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

 

[lonetraveler]

Yes, I think they are motived to reach a verdict to get back to their own lives.

I also think they will want to listen to Libby's video and compare the voice to other videos. That might take some time to set up and play on repeat.

I am expecting them to reach a verdict tomorrow but then sleep on it for final decision on Saturday. (But I hope it's Friday.)

jmo

My prediction is that the jury will sleep on it tonight and reach a verdict tomorrow.

 

[ManicMuggle83]

As we have time to wait and wait... (and I apologize if this is inappropriate), but I really hope Elizabeth and Lyric will get their justice soon too. Would love to have that be our next case to deep dive and discuss again after this one (hopefully) resolves.

12 years later, investigation into the Evansdale cousins' abduction, murders still active

 

[minor4th]

That if it were in fact RA’s car, the time stamp on the video would indicate the time in which he left the trail rather than the time he arrived

This is the point that I thought should have been given more play in the trial.

 

[Inthedetails]

If you’re right then I’ll eat my hat. I’ve used that line probably 10 times on here in the past several years, and I’ve never had to do that.

I’d love to be wrong this time.

I am NOT into conspiracy theories - really! But I can't help but notice that moments after MassGuy posts about eating his hat, the jury ends BEFORE 4pm today, thus saving him from having to make good on a false promise.

Coincidence? Ha, hardly.

jmo

 

[Appletreefarm35]

In conclusion, IMO the prosecutor and LE would have served the public better by using the $4.4m they wasted on this flawed prosecution, into properly investigating the crime and by following the evidence rather than manipulating and selecting it to try to convict RA.

The imprisonment, solitary confinement and drugs to co-erce confessions IMO are unforgivable.

ALL MOO

BBM- this is patently false. Based on the reporting of the medications he received there was absolutely nothing given to coerce confession.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

I am someone who hopes they deliberate for as much time as they need. I think both sides did the best they could do with what they had and what the judge allowed, but it's one thing for the jury to hear only what they heard and weigh their verdict on only what they hear and see when "we" have been in our comfortable homes following whatever social or mainstream media we follow and discussed all kinds of extraneous information sometimes for some people for years. The jury needs to take whatever time they need...that is what justice means. It's not about retaliation and it's not about retribution. It's making a determination about what the state of Indiana should do with the accused for the safety and security of the people of the state of Indiana.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am someone who hopes they deliberate for as much time as they need. I think both sides did the best they could do with what they had and what the judge allowed, but it's one thing for the jury to hear only what they heard and weigh their verdict on only what they hear and see when "we" have been in our comfortable homes following whatever social or mainstream media we follow and discussed all kinds of extraneous information sometimes for some people for years. The jury needs to take whatever time they need...that is what justice means. It's not about retaliation and it's not about retribution. It's making a determination about what the state of Indiana should do with the accused for the safety and security of the people of the state of Indiana.

Yes, we all want that. I hope that is understood.

jmo

 

[minor4th]

More conclusions IMO of the failure of the state to bring a very ill judged case.

THE PROSECUTOR HAS FAILED TO PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT A GUN WAS USED IN THE CRIME

He has failed to prove:

1. That Bridge Guy possessed a gun
2. That a gun was used in the perpetration of the crime

What he has proved:

1. There is no video image that shows a gun
2. The sound on the video was manipulated by investigators trying to make out what was heard
3. That the girls did not indicate there was a gun (only Liggett could hear the words)
4. No gun could be heard being “racked” in the video
5. The girls suffered no bullet wounds
6. No one heard any shots fired during the state’s timeline

He has failed to prove:

1. The bullet found at the scene could only be related to the crime (with no other explanation for why a bullet may have been there before the crime)
2. The bullet found at the scene could only be linked with RA’s firearm to the exclusion of all others

What he has proved:

1. Police officers carried similar ammunition on the scene
2. There are no DNA or fingerprints from the bullet linking it to the girls or RA
3. That replication of the action of cycling a round through RA’s gun would make the marks found on the bullet at the scene
4. That the state tested BW’s Sig Sauer and was unable to exclude it as the source of the bullet

ALL MOO

Bravo. I agree with your observations.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am someone who hopes they deliberate for as much time as they need. I think both sides did the best they could do with what they had and what the judge allowed, but it's one thing for the jury to hear only what they heard and weigh their verdict on only what they hear and see when "we" have been in our comfortable homes following whatever social or mainstream media we follow and discussed all kinds of extraneous information sometimes for some people for years. The jury needs to take whatever time they need...that is what justice means. It's not about retaliation and it's not about retribution. It's making a determination about what the state of Indiana should do with the accused for the safety and security of the people of the state of Indiana.

I agree. The jury has a serious job to do and they should take it with the utmost seriousness.

I for one believe that they will.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I've spent almost 7 years caring for 2 young girls Abigail Williams and Liberty German I've never met, following these threads through ups, downs, and sideways. I've seen good, smart people who are also emotionally invested in Justice for these girls. Some of us not even leaving the threads when there wasn't news, always thinking, speculating with each other.

Mistakes were made by LE in this case. Yes, I don't deny that. Yet somehow, someway Karma came calling for RA and his life as a free man was over. I believe with all my heart RA=BG=Killer. When I hear about his Constitutional Rights and poor conditions of being detained, I just have to think of Abby and Libby's rights, and the way they were so brutally left bleeding on the ground. BFF's that shared life and died together.

We've all had thoughts on RA, good, bad and ugly at times. Personal bias happens, it happens when something so horrific grabs your heart and squeezes it so hard you think it's going to break. I want RA found guilty, I want him to go away and I want the poor, heartbroken and mistreated families of these wonderful girls a chance to breathe and make one small step towards healing. I want the Delphi Community to get back to being the charming little town it was before RA ripped all of this away from everyone.

I think this jury has been especially careful and observant and I am prepared to accept whatever verdict they render. I feel 100% it will be guilty. I don't care how many times they appeal his verdict, RA will always be BG=Killer to me. He'll learn to acclimate himself just fine in prison because he's sly like a fox.

TRUTH and JUSTICE for Abby & Libby, FREEDOM from this emotionally draining heartbreaking story of an evil little man. HEALING to the families and loved ones, and the community. That's always what has been important to me, never 'I'm right and you're wrong'. This is not a game, it's about the vicious loss of 2 promising young girls that I feel like I could have been friends with myself at their age.

As we wait, I wish the jury positive thoughts because they've experienced a long and overwhelming amount of evidence that I'm sure will haunt them long after the YouTubers, Podcasters, Xers, Internet Cranks and even MSM have moved on to the next sad story.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

As always, JMO

 

[minor4th]

BBM

These claims are false.

JMO

I think they are accurate.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

If you’re right then I’ll eat my hat. I’ve used that line probably 10 times on here in the past several years, and I’ve never had to do that.

I’d love to be wrong this time.

Have you specified the hat? Not thinking that it will need to be consumed- but in the vein of specificity as we wait, and wait -

 

[m00c0w]

One thing that will happen and is probably already being prepared is RA will begin a civil case for his treatment pretrial, and IMO he should sue all the people who were involved,
IMO he was deliberately placed in solitary not for safekeeping but for punishment,
I have followed cases where the defendant has been charged with equally horrific crimes, some who have killed many more victims and they were housed in county jail and got to trial with no problems

His own defense argues that he was both undergoing extreme psychosis and also in no need of safekeeping. He was arguably a threat to himself, but also having him on suicide watch and being closely monitored was too much. His cell conditions are abysmal and similar to torture, but he will do much better at Cass, which would actually house him in a smaller cell (7x12 at Cass vs 8x12 at Westville) under the same conditions but with less medical and mental health support.

I don’t think they’ll win a civil suit.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

Did the State lay theirs out in a similar way?

Just asking...

JMO MOO JMT

It doesn’t sound like either side was so methodical in their closings

 

[Emma Peel]

BBM

These claims are false.

JMO

They are accurate, IMO and FWIW.

 

[minor4th]

Did he not confess both in and out of solitary and also on and off medication?

He’s never not been in solitary.

 

[m00c0w]

I think they are accurate.

You think “police officers carried similar ammunition on the scene” is accurate when this was specifically testified to as being inaccurate because most officers were not armed on scene, and the ones that were carried 9mm pistols?

“Similar” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

They are accurate, IMO and FWIW.

You think “police officers carried similar ammunition on the scene” is accurate when this was specifically testified to as being inaccurate because most officers were not armed on scene, and the ones that were carried 9mm pistols?

“Similar” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

Haldol isn't used to coerce confessions.

It's used when an inmate or a patient won't stop self harming like banging their face or head into the walls until they are bruised and swollen or telling their therapist they want to kill themselves and are thinking of jumping off their cell toilet to try to land wrong and break their neck (all things RA did).

It’s an anti psychotic.