VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

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i don’t know what verdict the jury will reach but one thing i would like to see is accountability for D surrogates who intentionally spread false conspiracies pre trial and even during voir dire.

The defence has known all along that Libby’s phone was not switched on at 4.30am yet this was shouted from the rooftops.

there can only be one reason why they were doing this and it certainly sheds some light on the crime scene photo ‘leak’
 
2 seconds - 2 seconds of a voice only.

It isn't really enough to analyse or recognise and especially if it has been technically or electronically enhanced.

In the 5 years it circulated not one person stepped forward to a point a finger at anyone.

JMO MOO JMT
It’s ridiculous for anyone to even try to make a comparison based on 2 seconds of poor audio quality.
 
More conclusions IMO of the failure of the state to bring a very ill judged case.

THE PROSECUTOR HAS FAILED TO PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT A GUN WAS USED IN THE CRIME

He has failed to prove:
  1. That Bridge Guy possessed a gun
  2. That a gun was used in the perpetration of the crime
What he has proved:
  1. There is no video image that shows a gun
  2. The sound on the video was manipulated by investigators trying to make out what was heard
  3. That the girls did not indicate there was a gun (only Liggett could hear the words)
  4. No gun could be heard being “racked” in the video
  5. The girls suffered no bullet wounds
  6. No one heard any shots fired during the state’s timeline
He has failed to prove:
  1. The bullet found at the scene could only be related to the crime (with no other explanation for why a bullet may have been there before the crime)
  2. The bullet found at the scene could only be linked with RA’s firearm to the exclusion of all others
What he has proved:
  1. Police officers carried similar ammunition on the scene
  2. There are no DNA or fingerprints from the bullet linking it to the girls or RA
  3. That replication of the action of cycling a round through RA’s gun would make the marks found on the bullet at the scene
  4. That the state tested BW’s Sig Sauer and was unable to exclude it as the source of the bullet
ALL MOO
The round at the scene proved BG had a gun. I don't need sounds of racking, audio that may or may not indicate that the girls said he had a gun, or a lack of bullet wounds to tell me that.

The odds of someone previously ejecting a 40 caliber round in the woods prior to the murders, and that round somehow winding up between two dead bodies, is so astronomically unlikely that it doesn't warrant any further consideration.

How did one man control two girls? What always made the most sense was that this man was armed with a gun. Why would a round be ejected? Because the girls weren't complying.

You're not going to get a usable print or DNA from a round that has been left to the mercy of the elements, and covered in dirt. I'm glad they tried though.

They clearly looked at BW, and put his gun through the same paces as they did Allen's weapon (and 6 other firearms). Only Allen's provided a match, and the defense witness did very little to cast doubt on that (shockingly below what I expected).

It is completely reasonable to believe that not only was a gun used in the commission of this crime, but it was in fact Allen's gun that was used.
 
i don’t know what verdict the jury will reach but one thing i would like to see is accountability for D surrogates who intentionally spread false conspiracies pre trial and even during voir dire.

The defence has known all along that Libby’s phone was not switched on at 4.30am yet this was shouted from the rooftops.

there can only be one reason why they were doing this and it certainly sheds some light on the crime scene photo ‘leak’

Not that the prosecutions case did not have some shortcomings in it, it did! But for the defense to offer no alibi, solid evidence to refute the evidence the prosecution had... tells me they were either not good at what they did or had very little of nothing of substance to bring to the table. RA admitted he was there at the right place and right time WAY BEFORE he "went crazy" and was forced to make "false confessions". The van interrupting him sealed the deal for me. Him self admitting that in a confession.

In ANY trial, you can make up all kinds of things that COULD have happened as an explanation. But the jury is not instructed to follow that supposition... but to go on logic and the evidence presented.

I feel certain now that he will be convicted.
 
You think “police officers carried similar ammunition on the scene” is accurate when this was specifically testified to as being inaccurate because most officers were not armed on scene, and the ones that were carried 9mm pistols?

“Similar” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

JMO

another conspiracy promoted pretrial that won’t die.

MOO
 
i don’t know what verdict the jury will reach but one thing i would like to see is accountability for D surrogates who intentionally spread false conspiracies pre trial and even during voir dire.

The defence has known all along that Libby’s phone was not switched on at 4.30am yet this was shouted from the rooftops.

there can only be one reason why they were doing this and it certainly sheds some light on the crime scene photo ‘leak’

And all that trial eve hoopla about the hair in Abby's hand didn't match RA!

Then turned out to be hair from a female.
 
Not that the prosecutions case did not have some shortcomings in it, it did! But for the defense to offer no alibi, solid evidence to refute the evidence the prosecution had... tells me they were either not good at what they did or had very little of nothing of substance to bring to the table. RA admitted he was there at the right place and right time WAY BEFORE he "went crazy" and was forced to make "false confessions". The van interrupting him sealed the deal for me. Him self admitting that in a confession.

In ANY trial, you can make up all kinds of things that COULD have happened as an explanation. But the jury is not instructed to follow that supposition... but to go on logic and the evidence presented.

I feel certain now that he will be convicted.

yes. The lack of any kind of alternate timeline is notable. Where did RA actually park for example? somehow he never could answer such a simple question in 2022 nor at trial.

where was RA at the time of the murders? where was his phone? all unknown.

his phone not being in the original tower dumps is one of the most incriminating facts IMO.
 
I think the jury will spend the day tomorrow reviewing notes and things they feel need clarification.

Anyone know how they get clarifications?

For example, if some of their notes say the reported confession included "white van" and some say it was just "van", how is that clarified, since they cannot look at transcripts (which just seems strange to me).
 
another conspiracy promoted pretrial that won’t die.

MOO
Even if officers did carry that caliber, it’s beyond absurd to suggest one randomly unholstered their firearm, racked that firearm, ejected a round, and just left it there.

They’d be taken to a fricken mental hospital if they did that.
 
I suspect they selected the foreman and decided HOW they are going to organize their discussions so they can jump in right away tomorrow.

Or....they reached their verdict but want to sleep on it! Maybe?

jmo
I think a 2 hour verdict would be wild, but I’m not sure why they’d be released early if they hadn’t come to some sort of conclusion. Very interesting.
 
IMO this has been a fantastic, engaged jury.

I hope they find RA guilty as charged; but I will respect the verdict, whatever it may be.

Serving on a jury can be very onerous. It impacts the person, their families, their jobs, their leisure time.

A case like this would surely affect their emotions, as well.

It’s fine with me if they ceased deliberations for the day after absorbing two diametrically opposed closing arguments. They need time to process.

I know this jury is not trying to rush through just to get home, because if that were true they would have bypassed asking all those relevant questions in their hurry to get the trial over more quickly.

If anyone’s ever read Twelve Angry Men, while it’s fictional it does give a piercing look behind the scenes, as jurors who want to be done are slowly persuaded by those who want to get the verdict right.

I applaud this jury’s diligence.

JMO
 
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It’s an anti psychotic.

Yes, it is. I'm intimately familiar with it, as my young adult son was in two different inpatient psychiatric wards for a month earlier this fall. He had both injected and pill form of Haldol. I had long talks with his attending psychiatrists at each of the hospitals about Haldol and psychosis.

Haldol doesn't create spontaneous false confessions.
 
Yup!

I've read so many comments in here regarding the psychosis aspect and assuming that it was a direct and primary result of the "solitary confinement"/one man cell and the allegations of prisoner neglect when in factual reality psychotic episodes as a whole can be brought about by a multitude of triggers. Taking away the mental illnesses that we all know include psychosis (as RA was diagnosed with none of them before during or after) you also have alcohol withdrawal, that can cause a psychotic episode and we know by RA's own word and history that he loved a bev. You also have stress, when your brain becomes overloaded with stress or anxiety it can cause a level of psychosis... I don't think the level of stress in RA's situation needs to be explained. Then we have depression. RA is noted to have had struggles with depression "most of his life" and severe depression can cause a psychotic episode. There's many other triggers too.
So to buy into the defenses claim that him being kept in a cell on his own for his own safety is the direct cause of psychosis is absurd.
Whilst guilt as a singular isn't known to cause psychosis, extreme guilt can and does cause anxiety, stress and depression which can result in a psychotic episode. Brief reactive psychosis is commonly triggered by a stressful and disturbing event and is very reactive to medication as seen with RA.

Anyways I'm babbling, but yah you get the picture. IMO the brief psychotic episodes mentioned in trial are NOT the result of a man kept in a one man cell for a year for his own safety, but they're a result of a guilty man who's consequences to his actions have caused a whirlwind of triggers in his brain - stress, anxiety, depression. The confessions happened and even IF they were given whilst an episode of psychosis was present, though it's been testified to that some confessions occured episode free, even IF they were it doesn't mean they are not true and IMO they explain why the psychosis occured in the first place... He killed those little girls, he got caught, locked up and was exposed to the two most important people to him (wife and mother) and his head couldn't handle it all which resulted in a brief psychotic episode. His actions that he repeatedly confessed to caused it, not the DOC.

IMO

Very detailed take -- I don't think the conditions he was kept in can be excluded from the causal story of these psychotic episodes, but I also don't know how much weight the confessions are likely to carry with the jury, given the relative weakness of this testimony.

If I'm having to weight the evidence, I'd say the SnapChat video evidence leads the way -- as actual, harrowing footage of the murders about to take place and the murderer in pursuit. It is impossible to ignore, and places an RA-like man directly in the frame. From there, the equivalence is whether or not the jury believes that RA = BG.

Why should they? First, IMO, the crime scene itself, with the complex but compelling stories it tells about when and how the murders happened, including the contested account of weapons used, and of coursethe unspent cartridge that connects to RA's own gun.

But why RA, specifically? Here it's the various testimony placing RA on the bridge on that day are those times (including his own). The confessions, whether the jury feels they're genuine or not, provide those critical details that "only the killer would know," or not, and whether they were coerced or illegitimately extracted or represented or not, for me lie somewhere near the bottom of the pile. There's something there, but I'd view them as more collaborative than definitive, were I a juror in this case (Spoiler: I ain't).

Anyway, that's my tuppence as a non-avid follower of the case. I reckon there's enough there for a safe conviction, but also some daylight between the bricks of the state's case, to recycle an earlier metaphor. I do think that RA is guilty, but won't be placing bets.
 
No argument there - true, it is the man's voice on that video from what we have been lead to believe and what was released publicly.

However, it is also true that not one person ever recognised it as Richard Allen's voice in the 5 years before his arrest nor did anyone ever point a finger at Richard Allen.

A man who worked in a job that dealt with the public daily.

JMO MOO JMT
But now that the facts are in, people are pointing the finger at Richard Allen. For 6 years the investigators worked tirelessly trying to figure out what BG was. They looked at a lot of potential suspects, but they could not put ANY of them on the bridge at 2:13. None of them.

Until they found that misfiled tip. But once they found the interview where he admitted to being there on the platform, wearing similar clothing, they began looking at him harder. By this time they already knew there were no other men on the bridge at that exact time. Only BG. And eventually they corroborated their hunch that RA was BG.

I see my CVS pharmacy tech about once a month. I never ever look at him while wondering if he is a child killer. It never occurs to me to compare him to posters on the wall of the post office.
 
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