Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[Detechtive]

Reading about today's cross was a trip. So many weasel words, lying by omissions, and forgetting things they have proof for.

She's coming for your crown, Belle!

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MOO

I nearly compared them, but I felt sorry for Belle. She is delusional and a conwoman, but she didn't kill anyone. Erin is far far worse, IMO.

 

[MrJ]

This case genuinely is messing my sleep up because every night before cross examination I get excited like it's Christmas Eve

 

[Neet_Mc]

Well, she called them liars for saying she said she was diagnosed with cancer.

But then she admits that she 'communicated' to them that she was being investigated for cancer and then may be having treatments for it in the future.

So she goes on to bizarrely imply that she was embarrassed about her plans to have bariatric surgery so she planned to pretend it was cancer treatment so she could get help with childcare etc in the future.

She was planning to pretend to have Ovarian cancer so she could get her stomach stapled? Was she going to shave her head too?

No! She didn’t need this lie to be plausible beyond the lunch date because no one was going to survive the lunch anyway. So the cancer diagnosis (or hint of a potential cancer diagnosis in the future ) , but most importantly the angle she went with about seeking assistance in how to break this news to the children, was a deliberate choice because this would be deemed severe enough that it would ensure the family members would turn up to her house.
I can only imagine the absolute rage she must have experienced when she received Simon’s rejection of the invitation!

 

[Montrealaise]

Claiming the sole survivor of the lunch as basically a liar seems profoundly unfair.

Not only unfair but foolish, when that sole survivor is an elderly church pastor.

 

[Montrealaise]

Nowhere near fifty grams.

Just one mushroom can kill.

Poisonous mushrooms growing in Victoria

Poisonous mushrooms including Death Cap mushrooms and Yellow-staining mushrooms occur in Victoria during Autumn, as the weather becomes wetter and cooler.

www.health.vic.gov.au

One mushroom can kill several adults: Death Caps are the most toxic mushrooms on earth.

 

[Montrealaise]

Reading about today's cross was a trip. So many weasel words, lying by omissions, and forgetting things they have proof for.

She's coming for your crown, Belle!

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MOO

Erin's testimony is showing us why criminal defense attorneys rarely advise their clients to take the stand in their own defense - in fact, they usually counsel against it unless they decide to do a Hail Mary in a last-ditch effort to avoid prosecution. I'm wondering, did Erin's lawyers advise her to do this, or did she insist against their advice (as sometimes happens, usually with bad results).

 

[Woolly]

Regarding her bulimia claims, they just don’t ring true to me. In my opinion, her gastro symptoms were some combination of lies and laxatives. However, the others who were ill didn’t just have diarrhea. They were also vomiting profusely. For most people, there is such an aversion to vomiting that it’s really hard to force yourself to do it. But someone who is bulimic has found a way around that. So if that were true, why wouldn’t she add in some actual episodes of vomiting to further bolster her claims that she ate the mushrooms too and was lucky enough to get just a little sick?

[Now obviously, she could also be an innocent person with bulimia who didn’t throw up because she wasn’t sick enough to need to. So the lack of vomiting proves nothing. It’s just that if you think she wasn’t actually sick, then it follows that she’s also lying about the bulimia.]

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

She keeps saying she lied because she was afraid she would be held responsible. Well isn't she afraid today that she will be held responsible by this court? So why should anybody believe what she's saying in court now?

Dr Rogers, please ask her that for me. Thanks.

 

[Montrealaise]

I assume if EP miraculously walks free that she will be making her Defence Team a celebratory dinner served up on unmatched plates consisting of a starter of Garlic Mushrooms followed by Mushroom Risotto and finally a choice of Chocolate Brownies or Orange Cake to gorge on and throw up?

Even if she does walk free, she will have a very hard time convincing anyone to go to her place for a home-cooked meal.

 

[browneyes]

I have no idea how the jury can even consider the accidental defense. Erin refuses to answer the simplest questions. Accidental implies she did something wrong, but without intent. Erin acts like she knows nothing of the incident. IMO, I hope they convict her.
Are rebuttal witnesses allowed in Australia? Even ones who already testified?

 

[ch_13]

Exactly. She had dehydrated mushrooms in it and later added them to spaghetti, lasagna, stews and soup which no doubt the children would have eaten. And yet death cap residue from April/May was still in the dehydrator in August when it was found at the tip.

It's not clear to be if she ever touched the dehydrator again after using it for the death caps.

From the evidence we've heard, it seems like she bought the machine in April and was experimenting with dehydrating mushrooms. This was when she posted about "hiding mushrooms" on Facebook. These mushrooms could have been either store-bought or non-toxic ones that she picked.

Then in late May, she (allegedly) made the trip to Outtrim where she picked the death caps. Presumably, that's when she would have dehydrated them and put them in her pantry.

Nothing we've heard suggests she ever used the dehydrator again after that. She's claimed on the stand that she dehydrated other foods, but there's no evidence she did. She certainly never posted about it on social media like she did the mushrooms.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

One mushroom can kill several adults: Death Caps are the most toxic mushrooms on earth.

The 50g statistic is not only from this trial, but quite evident online.

It's about the same weight as an egg, which is much denser than mushroom so I'd suggest it's quite a bit of mushroom per person. It's a quarter pack of these: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-...JRIx1audI1-wxHBUHhsd4PBy9rx4LCnT5TG4RHsAnF7Ma.

One thing that was mentioned today, was that dehydrating the mushrooms reduced their weight by 80-90%.

 

[ch_13]

Leaving residue in the dehydrator actually points to her not knowing there was anything harmful in it.

I think a guilty person would have carefully washed and disposed of all contents much earlier.

That isn't what happened. From testimony back on May 26:

The jury is being shown photos of the dehydrator after it had been taken apart for analysis by Mr Goodwin and his colleagues.

In one photo of a dehydrator vent, the jury could see a small amount of vegetable matter was located on the bottom left-hand side.

He said he collected the matter with tweezers and placed it into a specimen jar.

The court heard a total of seven samples were taken from the dehydrator. The jury previously heard death cap mushroom amatoxins were detected in four of the seven samples.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/four-factory-resets-done-on-phone-handed-over-by-erin-patterson-court/live-coverage/8e20007ee7d3d8758b85ec4b751bc409

So it wasn't that Erin left the dehydrator uncleaned. Rather, tiny food particles get into the vents and the machine's other nooks and crannies. The police had to basically take the machine apart just to get to a few tiny bits of vegetable matter.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

It's not clear to be if she ever touched the dehydrator again after using it for the death caps.

From the evidence we've heard, it seems like she bought the machine in April and was experimenting with dehydrating mushrooms. This was when she posted about "hiding mushrooms" on Facebook. These mushrooms could have been either store-bought or non-toxic ones that she picked.

Then in late May, she (allegedly) made the trip to Outtrim where she picked the death caps. Presumably, that's when she would have dehydrated them and put them in her pantry.

Nothing we've heard suggests she ever used the dehydrator again after that. She's claimed on the stand that she dehydrated other foods, but there's no evidence she did. She certainly never posted about it on social media like she did the mushrooms.

They have a number of pictures that were recovered off her devices and they're all mushrooms. It's another situation where it looks unlikely that her version tallies with reality.

If she was so interested in experimenting with dehydrating then why only take pictures of mushrooms?

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Another thing that Erin said today was that she was trying to get vegetables into her children.

Not only are mushrooms not vegetables, but why not try to sneak anything else in? If she had one example of sneaking dried broccoli into food it would back up her story 100% but she doesn't.

Also, I'm not sure putting mushrooms into brownies is what you might call healthy eating.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

A lot was made today about her use of an emoji and what it meant. I'm afraid for Erin this is another cast iron lie.

I'm an atheist with religious in-laws and I've thought for a few weeks that she doesn't respect it. The tone of her Facebook messages is very clear, especially after they mentioned praying on it.

The emoji in use was this . In that context, this was definitely meant in a disparaging way. I know because I'd use it in a similar way!

 

[Lifeonaline]

I kind of am impressed with her performance and coaching, but it's still arguing semantics and her lies are too overwhelming for it to make any difference. The jury might see her as petulant and evasive.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

100%! her favorite Woolies button mushrooms are not densely nutritious. Not worth the effort to dry, blitz and add amounts to meals. The broccoli gram for gram a better idea.

If she was saying … adding mushroom as trying for perfect umami in my sauce recipes or the sweet-umami brownie … imo more believable

 

[CityKid]

now06.14 BST
Patterson asked about lies in messages about medical appointments

A text message from Gail to Patterson on the same day is shown to the court. It said:

“Hi Erin. Just wondering how you got on at your appointment today? Love Gail and Don.”

Patterson replied the next day - 29 June 2023 - and said the appointment “went ok”. She also said she had a needle biopsy of the lump and would return for an MRI the following week.

Patterson agrees this was a lie.

“I didn’t have an appointment and I didn’t have a needle biopsy,” she says.

She agrees she also did not have a scheduled MRI appointment.

Rogers asks if Patterson anticipated Gail would convey the information about her medical appointments to Simon.

“The answer to that is no because I wouldn’t expect her to tell him any of that,” Patterson says.

Erin Patterson trial day 27 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

IMO. I've only been on NYC juries, so I can't speak to jury instructions in Australia. Here, the jury is told that if they believe the witness lied about any material fact in their testimony, you can disregard any and all of their testimony. The constant and consistent "yes, that was a lie" questioning, followed with a "trust me bro, I lied to police and everyone one else, but now I'm telling the truth" defense, doesn't play well with jurors.

Evidence Fall 2022 : OPTIONAL: New York pattern jury instructions on credibility of witnesses | H2O

opencasebook.org

 

[MsMarple]

I do as well. Coached though she may be, she can't help but let her snide side slip when she denies what the prosecution's questions are asking. Even when she's said things to the contrary before. And her trying to discredit witnesses will hopefully look very poor to the jury.

lol, I have a mental image of the accused stepping on top of all the previous witnesses while scrambling to get out of the hole she’s dug.

Her lies are just a bit too short of being plausible IMO. But I guess it only takes one gullible juror. Erin once called the locals illiterate but I think she underestimates her community. JMO