Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

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  • #921
I’ve just checked and they are not legal in most states but the water usage is the reason.

Garbage disposals are water hogs. We can't afford to be flushing that much water away in Australia.

Some sites say at least 6 litres a day. Some sites say 2-5 gallons per day. Which would be a lot of water we can save across many households. It is an item we can easily do without to conserve some of our water.

imo
 
  • #922
I’m just not sure about this. I am a Christian and married my husband when we were part of a baptist church community (as were/are the family being discussed). We were both baptised already and I don’t think baptist churches even do confirmation - that is more of a catholic or Anglican thing). I was never questioned by anyone as to whether I was baptised in order to get married. I think each unique church and family situation is different though so who knows.
I was confirmed Baptist in the 80’s in Aust but the Baptist church is not governed in the same way Catholic, Anglican, etc are. Yes, you’re correct, regarding the community and family situation. Some Baptists are very strict but others are pretty chilled. Our neighbour, a Baptist Pastor, loved a good red but when I was young, Baptists didn’t drink for eg in my church.
 
  • #923
I don’t think it is strange at all. I think this is a cultural/differences in countries thing.

All our food scraps and leftovers that aren’t eaten (other than those that are composted) end up in the garbage bin that ends up on the street once a week waiting for the rubbish truck. This is standard in Australia pretty much regardless of where you live. I have lived in cities, towns, and on a farm, in two different states and never once have I even thought about wildlife/animals getting into the rubbish and I have never had it happen to my bin.

I have certainly seen it take place when travelling in Canada, but never here.

Our bins in Australia are wheelie bins with lids. By the beach I have seen Ibis and seagulls steal food from bins, but these are open, fixed bins.

We have wheelie bins with lids but they're not locked or have a clicking closed mechanism or anything, they often get tipped over or ripped into by foxes.

The only reason I wondered this is would EP not be anxious that a slew of deceased animals would be found in a radius of her waste bin?
 
  • #924
Wonder why she didn't flush them down the loo?

Maybe her home has a cess pit type of sewage system so she couldn't dispose of anything completely by flushing?

Also really a sign that she never thought anyone would be coming looking for her accusing her of poisoning people. If so, she'd have burned them or disposed more carefully ?

It is my firm belief she thought she'd make people poorly and then end up having them dependent and needy of her nursing care. Or, she no longer GAF and was super looking forward to having retirement in prison, reading books and not binge eating.

Future crime drama series : Kathy Bates Makes BWs for the Fam.
The property probably uses a bio-system septic if it’s semi-rural and yes, you’re right, flushing may not have been a good disposal. I still think it’s odd she left anything to chance, if she was guilty, why have any trace at home.
 
  • #925
Ok, there ^^^ is an example of what Rogers said , isn't it? The statement that EP panicked because she thought the police were going to find evidence of her death caps ?


"I didn’t use any reason when I invited them. I just invited them."

That is not true. If that was true then the kids could have stayed and had a nice family lunch with the grandparents they hadn't seen much lately.

Didn't she tell the kids that the grownups had to have adult conversation or something?
EP said in her evidence that she asked her daughter if she wanted to stay for the lunch - Daughter said in her evidence that they couldn’t stay because it was just for adults as they had to discuss ‘adult stuff’.
 
  • #926
BBM

Is it because they only tested for alpha-amanitin and beta-amanitin toxins?
To clarify, the visual and microscopic analysis performed by Dr Truong was not testing for toxins in the leftovers but physical remnants of mushrooms, including spores.

She put on gloves and used sterilised tweezers and a microscope, the court hears.

I saw it was a food item that contained mushrooms inside.

I picked out the pieces of mushrooms.
She says she did not find any death cap mushroom pieces.

She then returned the remnants to the bag and placed it in her fridge.

The next day she took the leftovers to the lab at the Royal Botanic Gardens.

“I pulled out all the little pieces of mushrooms on a tray … I also took photographs of the spores I was observing.”

Asked by the prosecutor, Nanette Rogers SC, if she found any death cap mushrooms in the item, she says “no I didn’t”.

Truong says the only mushrooms she found were “field mushrooms” which can be found in supermarkets.



It was only in further testing by Head of forensic science and chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos that the beta-amanitin toxins were identified in the leftovers.
 
  • #927
The property probably uses a bio-system septic if it’s semi-rural and yes, you’re right, flushing may not have been a good disposal. I still think it’s odd she left anything to chance, if she was guilty, why have any trace at home.

The *only* thing that leans into her innocence in this case, is a failure to cover up the crime.

JMO MOO
 
  • #928
We have wheelie bins with lids but they're not locked or have a clicking closed mechanism or anything, they often get tipped over or ripped into by foxes.

The only reason I wondered this is would EP not be anxious that a slew of deceased animals would be found in a radius of her waste bin?
Probably another aspect relating to after the event that she hadn’t thought through. But, I don’t think she would have it on her radar that animals would/could get into the bin. It really just isn’t a common thing here.
 
  • #929
To clarify, the visual and microscopic analysis performed by Dr Truong was not testing for toxins in the leftovers but physical remnants of mushrooms, including spores.

She put on gloves and used sterilised tweezers and a microscope, the court hears.


She says she did not find any death cap mushroom pieces.

She then returned the remnants to the bag and placed it in her fridge.

The next day she took the leftovers to the lab at the Royal Botanic Gardens.

“I pulled out all the little pieces of mushrooms on a tray … I also took photographs of the spores I was observing.”

Asked by the prosecutor, Nanette Rogers SC, if she found any death cap mushrooms in the item, she says “no I didn’t”.

Truong says the only mushrooms she found were “field mushrooms” which can be found in supermarkets.



It was only in further testing by Head of forensic science and chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos that the beta-amanitin toxins were identified in the leftovers.

IMO it was frankly bizarre to do a visual check for poison when lab testing can check for actual poison. What was that about? I am not a detective or poison expert but all the same!
 
  • #930
What ? She’d had the Gastric Bypass - when ?

I thought we only heard that she was ‘ thinking about / planning to have ‘ Gastric Bypass.

Surely the prosecution has her medical records … then again she’ll probably say she saw a different Doctor ( can she be forced to divulge who she saw ?)
No, I believe she was projecting forward to the future, imagining she would feel ashamed and not wanting to tell anyone.
 
  • #931
What is the status of the custody of her children? Does anyone know? (Or have they since come of age.) As this was a key driver in all of this deception.
It was said early in the piece that Erin asked Simon’s brother if he would look after them, but I don’t know if that’s what happened.
 
  • #932
I was confirmed Baptist in the 80’s in Aust but the Baptist church is not governed in the same way Catholic, Anglican, etc are. Yes, you’re correct, regarding the community and family situation. Some Baptists are very strict but others are pretty chilled. Our neighbour, a Baptist Pastor, loved a good red but when I was young, Baptists didn’t drink for eg in my church.

It’s interesting. I have been a part of many different churches of different denominations. The two Baptist churches I was a part of did full immersion water baptism and no confirmation. There may be a lot of variety. I must be in the chilled category. Our pastor loved a drink and was in no way legalistic. I wonder what Simon’s family’s church was like. I could actually ask my friend. She has family that attend Ian’s church. I might ask her.
 
  • #933
If you had a purpose bought dehydrator, do you not think you would use it for dehydrating?

Ever since I've had an air-fryer, there are certain things I don't use the oven for because the air-fryer is better for them.
Maybe the purpose of buying the dehydrator was for the Death Caps ( or any other suss varieties) that she didn’t want contaminating her everyday cooking utensils,
 
  • #934
On a separate note, I've never understood foraging. If I loved wild-picking strawberries, but there was a 0.1% chance I'd land on a fatal version, I don't think I would.

And their mushrooms for God's sake, it's not like you're picking steak 🤣
I get that but it was common and while I didn’t eat mushrooms then, my family did. I loved foraging. It was part of country life. I knew not to pick poisonous ones. There were no death caps in my region and I didn’t hear about death caps until the Canberra incident. Iam cautious now and happy to buy them.
 
  • #935
Maybe the purpose of buying the dehydrator was for the Death Caps ( or any other suss varieties) that she didn’t want contaminating her everyday cooking utensils,
I used to use a dehydrator and it was great for tomatoes, fruit, drying things that were in peak season. I may still have it, but I stopped using it as it was painfully long, 14 hrs to dry grapes. It wasn’t cost effective.
 
  • #936
"And how you truly felt about Don and Gail was as you expressed it in your Facebook messages," Dr Rogers says.

"Incorrect," Erin responds.

Dr Rogers puts to her that how she truly felt about Simon Patterson was how she expressed it to Facebook friends.

"Incorrect," Erin says.
RSBM
This saying "Incorrect" really riles me. It sounds so arrogant. Does she ever say "No I didnt" or "No, that's not true!"
 
  • #937
IMO it was frankly bizarre to do a visual check for poison when lab testing can check for actual poison. What was that about? I am not a detective or poison expert but all the same!
I believe it was a matter of urgency, Monash Health called Dr Truong on July 31st while the four patients were in hospital.
She explains in The Guardian Article.

 
  • #938
I get that but it was common and while I didn’t eat mushrooms then, my family did. I loved foraging. It was part of country life. I knew not to pick poisonous ones. There were no death caps in my region and I didn’t hear about death caps until the Canberra incident. Iam cautious now and happy to buy them.

Do you think it is that common in Australia in country life? I grew up in Gippsland (not far from Leongatha) and the elsewhere in regional Victoria, on farms. We never foraged and I never had friends speak about foraging. Now I am questioning if I lived in some kind of bubble 🤣
 
  • #939
That’s correct
Are you saying that you know the children are with their father ?
Or are you agreeing with the comment that he’s the only parent they’ve got now
( if with their father, I really do hope that their son is doing better with the relationship than what EP portrayed)
 
  • #940
To clarify, the visual and microscopic analysis performed by Dr Truong was not testing for toxins in the leftovers but physical remnants of mushrooms, including spores.

She put on gloves and used sterilised tweezers and a microscope, the court hears.


She says she did not find any death cap mushroom pieces.

She then returned the remnants to the bag and placed it in her fridge.

The next day she took the leftovers to the lab at the Royal Botanic Gardens.

“I pulled out all the little pieces of mushrooms on a tray … I also took photographs of the spores I was observing.”

Asked by the prosecutor, Nanette Rogers SC, if she found any death cap mushrooms in the item, she says “no I didn’t”.

Truong says the only mushrooms she found were “field mushrooms” which can be found in supermarkets.



It was only in further testing by Head of forensic science and chief toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos that the beta-amanitin toxins were identified in the leftovers.
“Dr Gerostamoulos said the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine tested meat, pastry and mushroom paste samples from beef Wellington located in Ms Patterson’s bin after the lunch.

In three of four mushroom paste samples no alpha-amanitin or beta-amanitin toxins were found, but in one sample they detected beta-amanitin.

Beta-amanitin toxins were also detected in one meat sample, he said.”
https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...t/news-story/2a1417ea5465148399f0c13da4735ad2



If Erin’s testimony is that she added the Asian grocery store bought “Chinese mushrooms” (her words) from a Tupperware container that also may have been mixed with her own foraged mushrooms, why were there no shiitake/porcini or other exotic mushrooms traces found in the leftovers along with the Woolworths field mushrooms? I mean what are the chances that she accidentally foraged death caps and bought death caps from the Asian grocery store?!


Sorry as per your post above, I thought you were asking why Dimitri Gerostamolous didn't detect shiitake/porcini or other exotic mushrooms in the leftovers? and my suggestion was that he was only testing for alpha-amanitin and beta-amanitin?
 
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