Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #13 *Arrest*

[musicaljoke]

Now starting to think her intent was make them ill, and conceited enough to think the case would be attributed elsewhere than her eg the pub that served mushrooms or another unsuspecting host

She threw in too much powder and the panicked she would be charged w murder n lied lied and lied some more

Did she want one of those four to die… very possibly but she stuffed up and dosed them all.

What would be the point of going to so much trouble, with such a deadly ingredient, just to make them ill? I can't see it. She could have tossed in a bottle of ipecac if she just wanted them ill. I believe she sourced a deadly ingredient because death was the desired outcome.
jmo

 

[Jess D]

What would be the point of going to so much trouble, with such a deadly ingredient, just to make them ill? I can't see it. She could have tossed in a bottle of ipecac if she just wanted them ill. I believe she sourced a deadly ingredient because death was the desired outcome.
jmo

Agreed. I think people are saying this because Erin was so cocky about not getting caught. There were plenty of things she could have used had she just wanted to make her lunch guests ill. She used Death Caps for a reason.

What would be the point of going to so much trouble, with such a deadly ingredient, just to make them ill? I can't see it. She could have tossed in a bottle of ipecac if she just wanted them ill. I believe she sourced a deadly ingredient because death was the desired outcome.
jmo

I completely agree. There's plenty of things she could have used if her objective was just to make her lunch guests ill. She used Death Caps for a reason.

 

[MrJ]

Dr Rogers: Erin-
EP: incorrect.
Dr Rogers: But I haven't asked the question ye-
EP: No.
Dr Rogers: Don't you want to hear the ques-
EP: Are you saying I have free will over my ears?
Dr Rogers: ERIN DID YOU DO IT OR NOT
EP: I don't like your tone!

 

[Eloise]

If she admitted to begin with that it was an accident (and we assume for the sake of the argument this was true) that her foraging resulted in DCs ending up in the lunch, it would still be regarded as manslaughter?

I think a genuine accident, dealt with openly and earnestly,. wouldn't end up charged as manslaughter. None of the past accidental mushroom poisonings have ended up as such. To be fair, generally the cook also ends up either dead or extremely ill.

 

[JBowie]

Dr Rogers: ERIN DID YOU DO IT OR NOT
EP: I don't like your tone!

Dr Rogers: Your Honour, please advise the witness that what she thinks of my 'tone' is immaterial to this cross-examination.

His Honour: The witness will confine her responses to the questions asked and the jury will disregard her last statement. Continue, Dr Rogers.

 

[katydid23]

" Q-Manday: Do you accept that there were death caps in the lunch you served? "
" A- EP : Yes, I do accept that."


That container of smelly asian mushrooms bought in area of her old home in Melbourne was then moved to her new home? <<<I never realised that before.

Not only did she not toss those funny smelling mushrooms out, she actually moved them from her old house to her new house? ;according to the guardian u-tube---

And then she added other mushrooms she had picked to that Tupperware.
{ her story ignored the fact that she had powdered those mushrooms---in her version of the story they were dried mushrooms, not powdered mushrooms. ----but tests later confirmed that the only mushrooms pieces found in the leftovers were regular non-toxic button mushrooms]


Also that you-tube described something I hadn't put together before-----apparently the prosecution laid out the timeline with those pictures on her phone of the death caps drying on th dehydrator trays, and then on the scales were she was weighing them out.

Those pictures, identified by the fungi expert as being Death Caps----they were dated just days after the alleged visit to Outrim to the Death Capo sightings. ]

 

[katydid23]

Dr Rogers: Your Honour, please advise the witness that what she thinks of my 'tone' is immaterial to this cross-examination.

His Honour: The witness will confine her responses to the questions asked and the jury will disregard her last statement. Continue, Dr Rogers.

where are you finding these quotes---they are awesome.

 

[Moll]

where are you finding these quotes---they are awesome.

I rather think they are a jokey invention. A bit confusing, given how extraordinary some of the genuine exchanges have been.

 

[JBowie]

I rather think they are a jokey invention.

This.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

If she admitted to begin with that it was an accident (and we assume for the sake of the argument this was true) that her foraging resulted in DCs ending up in the lunch, it would still be regarded as manslaughter?

I've always thought this was a key element, and one that I've never fully had answered. If she'd simply said from the beginning that she accidentally foraged the mushrooms and as a result 3 people were dead, would she have faced any charges?

If so, I suspect this has a lot to do with the denials of foraging and the obvious Asian grocer lie. After all, guilty or innocent, she wanted to paint it as not being her fault at all initially.

 

[Lisa4]

The reality is that if she is innocent there are some really implausible aspects of the case that need accounting for but the exact same is true if she is guilty.

Yes, it's complex for sure, either way. I'm particularly curious what parts seem implausible if she's innocent. What are some specific elements that don’t quite add up from that angle?

Maybe that's what has made this such an interesting case, there are so many bizarre details that none of it appears to make sense!

 bbm
So true!

 

[Lisa4]

I've always thought this was a key element, and one that I've never fully had answered. If she'd simply said from the beginning that she accidentally foraged the mushrooms and as a result 3 people were dead, would she have faced any charges?

If so, I suspect this has a lot to do with the denials of foraging and the obvious Asian grocer lie. After all, guilty or innocent, she wanted to paint it as not being her fault at all initially.

I asked about this too on an earlier thread and I believe the consensus was that manslaughter wasnt on the table but no one seemed 100% certain.

Will check back

 

[Kemug]

She is just so arrogant, I wonder if she was born that way, or if it developed over time? There is no hiding her arrogance, and she doesn't even seem to try. Because she wants everyone to know how much superior, smarter or whatever, she is.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

The court will resume on Tuesday.

It is expected that the cross-examination of Erin Patterson will continue then.

Justice Beale tells the jury that there are still some lengthy legal discussions ahead of them after the long weekend.

It will be an interesting week..!

 

[Old Soul]

A bit more from the son’s evidence:

“Patterson made leftovers for herself too, he said, but did not eat it as she felt unwell, so he ate her food.
They ate all of the leftovers, he said.”
The court has previously heard that police recovered at least one beef wellington, and part of another, from a wheelie bin at Patterson’s house on 1 August, the following day.

Erin Patterson’s daughter says accused mushroom poisoner was ‘very good’ cook, murder trial hears

Patterson’s son tells jury eye-fillet steak from leftovers of fatal lunch was ‘some of the best meat I’ve ever had’

www.theguardian.com

I am still confused about the leftovers. Allegedly 6 were made by Erin, 4.5 were eaten at the lunch, then 3 serves of leftovers (with the mushrooms and pastry removed) were eaten on Sunday evening and then 1 and bit BWs were found in the bin on the Monday.

I know the court were shown cctv footage of the bin leftovers being inspected:

“The footage is of Dr Foote handling the leftover beef Wellington that had been retrieved from Erin Patterson's bin on July 31, 2023.
Dr Foote, wearing gloves, can be seen pulling a dark-coloured substance out of a brown Woolworths paper bag, presumably the filling of the beef Wellington.
Then she retrieves a larger piece, the outer pastry of a beef Wellington.”

Can anyone recall court reporters mentioning if any of the beef eye fillet was visible in the footage or was it just pastry and duxelles?

Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened

A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.

www.abc.net.au

Has Erin expressed at any time how lucky or miraculous it is that her children didn’t have the slightest hint of poisoning?

 

[CityKid]

A bit more from the son’s evidence:

“Patterson made leftovers for herself too, he said, but did not eat it as she felt unwell, so he ate her food.
They ate all of the leftovers, he said.”
The court has previously heard that police recovered at least one beef wellington, and part of another, from a wheelie bin at Patterson’s house on 1 August, the following day.

Erin Patterson’s daughter says accused mushroom poisoner was ‘very good’ cook, murder trial hears

Patterson’s son tells jury eye-fillet steak from leftovers of fatal lunch was ‘some of the best meat I’ve ever had’

www.theguardian.com

I am still confused about the leftovers. Allegedly 6 were made by Erin, 4.5 were eaten at the lunch, then 3 serves of leftovers (with the mushrooms and pastry removed) were eaten on Sunday evening and then 1 and bit BWs were found in the bin on the Monday.

I know the court were shown cctv footage of the bin leftovers being inspected:

“The footage is of Dr Foote handling the leftover beef Wellington that had been retrieved from Erin Patterson's bin on July 31, 2023.
Dr Foote, wearing gloves, can be seen pulling a dark-coloured substance out of a brown Woolworths paper bag, presumably the filling of the beef Wellington.
Then she retrieves a larger piece, the outer pastry of a beef Wellington.”

Can anyone recall court reporters mentioning if any of the beef eye fillet was visible in the footage or was it just pastry and duxelles?

Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened

A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.

www.abc.net.au

Has Erin expressed at any time how lucky or miraculous it is that her children didn’t have the slightest hint of poisoning?

From the son's description of the meal, we have no evidence that the steaks the children were fed were ever coated with duxelles or wrapped in pastry. And also per the son, the meat was cooked in a frying pan, which it wouldn't be if it were prepared like a Cornish pasty, which EP did with the steaks served to the guests. We only have EP's word that she scraped off the duxelles, which would mean she would have had to remove the pastry as well. MOO there were never any mushrooms or pastry on the kids' steaks to begin with. In fact, it would be worse if she were telling the truth! By that time, she was aware the guests were unwell, and if she served her kids the exact same dish that might have sickened her guests, she'd be even more evil than she already looks.

From the link below:
Patterson’s son: “The meat - it was very soft and it was probably one of the best meals I’ve ever had actually.”

Interviewer: “Was it beef, pork, chicken?”

Patterson’s son: “Beef. I think it was eye fillet.”

Interviewer: “And how was it cut?”

Patterson’s son: “I think it was a block cut up into cubes. Maybe 5cm (cubes).”

Interviewer Did it have anything on it?

Patterson’s son: “No.”

The boy said he had seen his mother cooking the meat on the Saturday morning, hours before the lunch, in an electric frying pan.

Interviewr: “To the best of your knowledge, was the meat pre-cooked or was it something mum cooked fresh that night?

Patterson’s son: “I think she cooked it all on the Saturday and heated it up for us on the Sunday."

‘He did things to hurt mum’: Erin Patterson’s son reveals his parents’ disputes

Erin Patterson is accused of killing three people with poisonous death cap mushrooms.

7news.com.au

 

[MaxDecimus13]

What would be the point of going to so much trouble, with such a deadly ingredient, just to make them ill? I can't see it. She could have tossed in a bottle of ipecac if she just wanted them ill. I believe she sourced a deadly ingredient because death was the desired outcome.
jmo

Plausible deniability is a possible reason. If 4 people suddenly get ill and attention is directed towards you, you want to be able to at least have an excuse of sorts.

Bear in mind, in this theory she didn't want to just make them unwell, she wanted them quite seriously unwell.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Yes, it's complex for sure, either way. I'm particularly curious what parts seem implausible if she's innocent. What are some specific elements that don’t quite add up from that angle?


 bbm
So true!

Implausible might not be the right word, but coincidental might be better. There are some extreme coincidences that would need to be true:

She was the only one who wasn't significantly ill out of 5
Her ex-husband just happened to go into a mystery coma the year before
She still happened to pick DC mushrooms despite having read up about them
She just happened not to taste the DC mushrooms when she found them or added them to the duxelle

The rest of the things that are implausible (her not remembering the Asian grocer, not realising she'd added foraged mushrooms until much later, her children not getting ill) would still be explainable if she was innocent because of course she could still be lying to make her look less to blame than she actually is.

This is also true about a lot of her other obvious lies, like the reason for the meal, the denial of a dehydrator etc. She seems to have a mix of lying to make it look like she wasn't to blame at all, and those to make her look better.

I genuinely think she could be innocent and end up going to jail because she has handled it so badly: in trying to save face she has just been exposed as a fantasist and a liar.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I asked about this too on an earlier thread and I believe the consensus was that manslaughter wasnt on the table but no one seemed 100% certain.

Will check back

The only thing that complicates it, would be the aspect of her having knowledge of DC mushrooms.

If it's totally innocent, like you'd gone out with a group picking mushrooms for the first time and got it wrong then fair enough.

If you're a forager with knowledge of DC mushrooms, and you end up picking DC mushrooms is there not an element of negligence/risk taking?

It would seem harsh to jail somebody for this, but at the same time sending out the message that if you pick mushrooms you better be 100% sure they're safe, isn't a bad thing IMO.

 

[Jess D]

Implausible might not be the right word, but coincidental might be better. There are some extreme coincidences that would need to be true:

She was the only one who wasn't significantly ill out of 5
Her ex-husband just happened to go into a mystery coma the year before
She still happened to pick DC mushrooms despite having read up about them
She just happened not to taste the DC mushrooms when she found them or added them to the duxelle

The rest of the things that are implausible (her not remembering the Asian grocer, not realising she'd added foraged mushrooms until much later, her children not getting ill) would still be explainable if she was innocent because of course she could still be lying to make her look less to blame than she actually is.

This is also true about a lot of her other obvious lies, like the reason for the meal, the denial of a dehydrator etc. She seems to have a mix of lying to make it look like she wasn't to blame at all, and those to make her look better.

I genuinely think she could be innocent and end up going to jail because she has handled it so badly: in trying to save face she has just been exposed as a fantasist and a liar.

Huh?