Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[Porky1]

Reportedly one of the devices was hidden in a couch on the back porch. That sounds hidden, most likely. imo

Fallen behind a cushion or hidden in the cushion?

 

[JBowie]

I imagine the police would have had access to service provider records outlining details of calls / texts / and also a record of the IMEI of the device in use with that particular SIM.

Yes, I get that, but they had to first discover that she was using two different phones, and I am wondering how that all played out and what was the purpose of having two phones.

For instance, did she use one phone for relatives and another for other people? Were people aware that she was using two phones -- that is, did they need to put 'Erin 1' and 'Erin 2' in their own known phone contacts?

Did people have to guess which number to call her on at any particular time?

Was she trying to hide her movements?

 

[ch_13]

IMO it is a common sexist misunderstanding in this case, that Erin did not want the divorce or that she needed Simon for money.

I do not have media links for it, but it was discussed many threads ago, that her online friends reflected as her wanting out of that marriage and her wanting a divorce, but religious background of S and his family being not fond of that idea. You can google "Erin who wanted a divorce" for lack of better examples for now.

Of course it is still possible, that she was unhappy about the divorce.

I still think she poisoned her guests.

But I don't think it was "murder because he wanted a divorce and she did not". I really don't see any of that.

I think it's really hard to say at this point what exactly each party wanted from the other after their separation.

Erin may have told her friends that Simon was blocking a divorce, but I don't think she was being totally honest with them about the state of her relationship. One of them testified that Erin said Simon was "controlling" and "coercive" and he was abusive. But he sure didn't come off that way based on his testimony or the texts that were shared in court. Even the defense doesn't be seem to be trying to make the case that he was a bad husband.

Maybe there will be testimony later that Erin wanted a divorce and Simon didn't. Or perhaps vice versa. But from what we have seen to date, I don't think we can come to any conclusion.

 

[SouthAussie]

Were they hidden or just stashed away in drawers? You would find all those things packed away for travel in my house plus the random drawers that old tech goes in without any thought.

They must have been concealed. If the police came to my place and did a search, they would find my iPad on the shelf under my coffee table, my old phones in a drawer in my desk, and memory sticks in my work bag. They wouldn't need a technology dog to find them.

imo

 

[Megnut]

Yes, I get that, but they had to first discover that she was using two different phones, and I am wondering how that all played out and what was the purpose of having two phones.

For instance, did she use one phone for relatives and another for other people? Were people aware that she was using two phones -- that is, did they need to put 'Erin 1' and 'Erin 2' in their own known phone contacts?

Did people have to guess which number to call her on at any particular time?

Was she trying to hide her movements?

1. I don't think Erin thought she would spark an investigation.

2. She had online friends who I bet she never dreamed LE would find or interview.

3. IMO she used her secret phone to contact someone whom LE found by another route and that person supplied the secondary phone number.

Like maybe the online friend she called after the poisonings. In fact maybe that's why she got a second phone, to keep those friends separate and anonymous.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

You can google "Erin who wanted a divorce" for lack of better examples for now.

I googled "Erin who wanted a divorce" and the results are .....

• Erin Foster was worried she'd get divorced over her new Netflix rom-com series "Nobody Wants This," which stars Adam Brody and Kristen Bell
• Erin addresses the divorce on Human Conversation Ep. 34.
• A Simpler, Kinder & Less Stressful Divorce with Erin Levine

.... and I am in Australia, where the Erin Patterson trial is ongoing.

When I google "Erin Patterson divorce" not one link comes up with "divorce", they all say "estranged".

The only thing I have ever seen about divorce is Erin's internet chat friend who said that Erin and Simon had different opinions about ... one of their children was not well, divorce, separation, how the children should be educated and brought up. (linked earlier)

 

[JBowie]

When I google "Erin Patterson divorce" not one link comes up with "divorce", they all say "estranged".

Same here.

If there was discussion by her within a Group, or whatever, then I cannot readily find any link to that.

 

[arrogantcat]

So, these are the things that the police didn't find in their search, but the two technology dogs later found for them.

one USB
a micro secure digital card
a SIM card
a mobile phone
five iPads
a trail camera
a secure digital card
a smart watch

Plus the police took a computer for analysis.

I thought I remembered one of the devices being hidden in a couch on a back porch (or something like that) but I am not seeing the link at the moment.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/hidden-items-sniffed-out-by-dogs-at-mushroom-murder-accuseds-house/news-story/926175f5eed9141e2a8b98da6a99001a?amp

I’ve seen a lot of ppl interpret this as the items being intentionally concealed - which may very well be true. But until we hear more about the extent and focus of the initial search I think it’s hard to definitively conclude this.

For example, if they knew they had tech dogs due to visit, the police may have focused their initial search efforts on other items. Old devices like out of date phones and iPads are often stored away.

So far the only tech evidence we’ve heard to expect is Facebook, forum posts and some phone GPS. None of this seems to be something that would reside on a secreted memory stick or the 5 iPads, so I’m leaning towards the details of the search being a little misleading.

I think she had a phone, a burner, and wasn’t very careful with either.

 

[arrogantcat]

The broad categorization of narcissism into grandiose and vulnerable is key to this.

I think many people associate the term with the grandiose type. I believe that EP fits many of the traits of the vulnerable type.

EP's description of her life as a kid and her relationship with her mother is right in line with Prof Sam Vaknin's description of how narcissists are made (or make themselves, as he would put it). It's a coping mechanism.

I personally do not believe we’ve had enough information about the accused to even begin to attempt ‘diagnosis by internet’.

If a cluster B personality disorder is suspected by the prosecution, no doubt they will present a psych evaluation to support this in due course.

 

[arrogantcat]

I'm not sure we've been told officially, but I know that the dogs spent something like 6 hours going over the entire property. IIRC, there were reports of some devices located in a bushy area outside.

But was anything of evidentiary value found on these devices? So far from the evidence it doesn’t really seem like there was.

In which case, why conceal them?

 

[arrogantcat]

It is alleged that EP had a second phone along with a second SIM that had been in active use around the time of the luncheon. Neither the second phone or second SIM were recovered.
I imagine the police would have had access to service provider records outlining details of calls / texts / and also a record of the IMEI of the device in use with that particular SIM.

Perhaps even payment records indicating she was purchasing credit for a SIM card or similar

 

[SouthAussie]

I’ve seen a lot of ppl interpret this as the items being intentionally concealed - which may very well be true. But until we hear more about the extent and focus of the initial search I think it’s hard to definitively conclude this.

For example, if they knew they had tech dogs due to visit, the police may have focused their initial search efforts on other items. Old devices like out of date phones and iPads are often stored away.

So far the only tech evidence we’ve heard to expect is Facebook, forum posts and some phone GPS. None of this seems to be something that would reside on a secreted memory stick or the 5 iPads, so I’m leaning towards the details of the search being a little misleading.

I think she had a phone, a burner, and wasn’t very careful with either.

The thing is, Victoria Police have NO technology dogs (which we learned in another case). They borrowed Alma and Georgia from the Australian Federal Police. Not something they do for any old case where they can find what they need.

Prior to 2022 VicPol had to bring technology dogs in from Queensland and NSW.

IMO the police must have known there was information out there that they couldn't find on Erin's known devices. So they asked the AFP if they could borrow their dogs. Or they were simply looking for that 2nd phone and came up with a treasure trove of devices and memory sources.


Sep 2022:
There are now two technology detection dogs in Queensland, New South Wales, the ACT, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia.

“Tech detection dogs are an invaluable asset to law enforcement agencies and are essential in combatting crime in a modern era where critical evidence is often stored on hidden electronic devices,”

AFP hosts inaugural Technology Detection Dog Symposium | Australian Federal Police

 

[Spectrix]

Yes, I get that, but they had to first discover that she was using two different phones, and I am wondering how that all played out and what was the purpose of having two phones.

The way I understand it, the police seized her second phone/SIM. They didn't find what they believed was her primary phone/SIM (some have suggested that it may have been dumped the same day that she dumped the dehydrator).

During Erin Patterson's ongoing murder trial, it was revealed that she used multiple phones and SIM cards in 2023. The court heard that she initially used a SIM card ending in 783 from January 15, 2023, and later connected a new SIM card ending in 835 on July 11, 2023. The fatal mushroom lunch was on July 29.
Police later seized a black Samsung phone from her home, which contained the SIM card ending in 835. However, the phone associated with the original 783 SIM card was never recovered.

The existence of multiple phones and SIM cards has raised questions about her communications leading up to and following the incident. Prosecutors suggest that this could indicate an attempt to conceal certain communications.

 

[JBowie]

The way I understand it, the police seized her second phone/SIM. They didn't find what they believed was her primary phone/SIM (some have suggested that it may have been dumped the same day that she dumped the dehydrator).

So police must have been backtracking on phone calls/SMS messages from her to others and discovered two different numbers in use with the accounts under her name.

I hope it is explained in evidence how she divided up the use of each phone.

Disposing of a phone itself seems to be an attempt to hide the fact that she had two phones. I wonder how she explained its absence to police, or if she flat out denied its existence until shown evidence of her use of it.

As for all of the stuff found by police dogs I am convinced that she was attempting to hide all of that.

 

[JLZ]

Remember the statement she made in front of the press where she mixes up Ian and Don? One was her father-in-law. Hard to fathom anyone could make that mistake, but we all saw it.

I thought perhaps the police had misled her about which of them had not yet died.

 

[ch_13]

I thought perhaps the police had misled her about which of them had not yet died.

No, it was public knowledge. Here's a Daily Mail article from Monday, August 7, the same day that Erin gave her statement and two days after Don's death.

It clearly states who died and when...

They went to hospital the next day as their condition worsened, with the two sisters, aged 70 and 66, dying on Friday. Don, 70, died on Saturday night.

Ian, 68, remains in a critical condition in hospital and is believed to be waiting on a liver transplant.

Woman who cooked up poisonous mushrooms denies she did anything wrong

A woman who cooked a meal with poisonous mushrooms that resulted in the deaths of three people has tearfully denied she did anything wrong.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MsMarple]

Here’s all I could find regarding where the sniffer dogs searched:

On Thursday, detectives spent several hours searching Patterson’s sprawling Leongatha property where the allegedly fatal lunch was served back in July. They searched the home with specialist dogs trained to sniff out phones, laptops, SIM cards and USB sticks. The canines can detect unique odours excreted by electronic devices.

Investigators searched Patterson’s car, the home’s garage, outdoor furniture, and a meter box located on the back deck. An armchair and bushes close to the house received particularly close attention from the dogs.
…
Patterson, whose home was also searched in August, had already handed over her mobile phone to police for examination shortly after detectives began investigating the deaths.

Patterson faces court over alleged involvement in mushroom killing

The cook at the centre of the deadly mushroom meal, charged with three counts of murder and five of attempted murder, has appeared in court.

www.theage.com.au

 

[katydid23]

I thought perhaps the police had misled her about which of them had not yet died.

Wouldn't her children have known their grandfather died? And Simon? Wouldn't he have told her?

I guess I have to go back and look at the timing. How long were the children still in her care?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Many of my tech items are all over the place, in any drawer I was near at the time.
Some in my underwear drawer. Perhaps those scenarios could be thought of as hiding.

I've even had flash drive sticks that ended up under my bed til the robot flushed them out.
Also ones that fell behind a cushion and the couch further disappeared them

Not everyone has a set way of doing things and always puts everything where others think they should go.

But all of the above would have people instantly knowing I was guilty of whatever.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Even in a tragedy, or maybe because of a tragedy it's easy for our brain to come out with the wrong name.

Years ago I would sometimes say my son's name when I was thinking of my friend's son.
It happened more than once.

I knew perfectly well who I was thinking of, it just came out wrong.