Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[tillytatler]

I'll see how the defense will be operating throughout this week but it doesn't really look great as a defense line of the meal being a tragic accident when the accused had powdered mushrooms into dishes for the kids to eat and was very into mushrooms. I doubt she wouldn't know what a Death Cap looked like, unless she was foraging in low visibility -- unlikely. IMO

There's really very little you would mistake for a death cap - and, as a mushroom forager, you really only pick mushrooms you're very familiar with and sure of the ID on. And any mushroom which is "new" to you, even if you're pretty sure of it, the usual and recommended way to proceed is to try a small amount of it on its own before having a larger amount, in order to check how you respond. I don't know any foragers who would take a mushroom they weren't totally sure of, or one new to them, and use a large amount in a duxelle.

Of course, you do get foragers who are extremely cavalier with safety, or simply very stupid. It's not impossible. It just isn't likely.

 

[JBowie]

I wonder if Erin's mother was as bad as she was painted. It'll be interesting to hear what her sister has to say.

I've been wondering about her sister. Has it been mentioned that she will be called to testify, if so by which side?

 

[JBowie]

There have been a few really conniving murderers, but in reality most are pretty dumb. Even some of the most notorious cases where someone got away with it, it's primarily due to mistakes in the police investigation, and not because the killer was some genius. [bbm]

So true IMO. There are numerous YouTube videos about (e.g.) American homicide cases where the suspect is interviewed by police and it's astounding how dumb the majority of them are. They try to play the police for fools but in the end it's very clear who the fool is.

Usually it's serial killers who present police with the greatest challenges because they tend to plan their murders down to the tee and take measures to avoid identification. On the other hand, once they have been identified as suspects they can be found to have a trove of 'trophies/mementos' and/or written plans which then help police greatly. The Gilgo Beach case comes to mind.

Edit: Police corruption/incompetence also applies to Gilgo.

 

[JBowie]

Not all narcissists present in the same way. And they can have a combination of different narcissistic traits.

The broad categorization of narcissism into grandiose and vulnerable is key to this.

I think many people associate the term with the grandiose type. I believe that EP fits many of the traits of the vulnerable type.

EP's description of her life as a kid and her relationship with her mother is right in line with Prof Sam Vaknin's description of how narcissists are made (or make themselves, as he would put it). It's a coping mechanism.

 

[Tweet57]

Well not only Erin, but I wonder if any of her sleuth friends have read this thread or contributed.

It’s a strange feeling - to know that a sleuth or a super sleuth has potentially murdered three people. It’s unusual because you don’t really hear about that happening very often.

I believe sleuthing in crime forums by ‘alleged’ perpetrators, police, others with vested interests, their family and friends happens more than we realise.

 

[JBowie]

I believe sleuthing in crime forums by ‘alleged’ perpetrators, police, others with vested interests, their family and friends happens more than we realise.

I have no doubt about that. Reportedly Rex Heuermann often trawled the web for references to the Long Island serial killer.

 

[MsMarple]

I believe sleuthing in crime forums by ‘alleged’ perpetrators, police, others with vested interests, their family and friends happens more than we realise.

Convicted murderer DeeDee Moore became a WS member and came on before her arrest to post about her victim. Crazy.

Yesterday’s testimonies from Erin’s online friends surprised me. We were aware that she had complaints about Simon but I didn’t expect that she considered him “coercive” and controlling.

 

[Sjöberg]

Well, I don't think she actually initiated a divorce. She was extraordinarily upset that Simon wrote "separated" on his tax return as his marital status. And he was only being honest.

Did she initiate a divorce? Remind me please?

IMO it is a common sexist misunderstanding in this case, that Erin did not want the divorce or that she needed Simon for money.

I do not have media links for it, but it was discussed many threads ago, that her online friends reflected as her wanting out of that marriage and her wanting a divorce, but religious background of S and his family being not fond of that idea. You can google "Erin who wanted a divorce" for lack of better examples for now.

Of course it is still possible, that she was unhappy about the divorce.

I still think she poisoned her guests.

But I don't think it was "murder because he wanted a divorce and she did not". I really don't see any of that.

 

[JBowie]

a common sexist misunderstanding

Huh? Where does 'sexism' enter this?

I don't recall reading about her wanting a divorce. In fact there's a lot about her saying that she wanted to try to make the marriage work. Of course her saying that doesn't mean that she really meant it.

 

[Megnut]

I think the defense had done an illuminating job of highlighting motive.

Triangulation. Pull in supporters from all sides with a tale of coercive control.

Ah, but what have we learned -- Simon wanted his marriage to work, it was always Erin who would sent him packing, calling him back in in order to control him (exploit his weaknesses, knowing he would come back).

Once he marked 'separated', Erin lost the $15000 credit. To everyone who she could force to listen, she was the benevolent one, allowing Simon not to have to pay child support, but it is glaring to me. She created an awful marriage dynamic, free to do so because Simon was willing to try again.

Look what happened once he was tasked for child support. A pittance. Because of a formula Simon did not invent. It was in Erin's financial best interest to stay "married". She was doing her best to convince everyone that Simon was controlling the money, but she was.

That Inflammatory text -- imagine if you're Simon and you have to try to explain/defend yourself, especially to your ill mother -- whom you wouldn't want upset. That was his bridge too far -- it's almost mind boggling in hindsight. If Erin is guilty of the charges levied against her, Simon was concerned about adding distress upon his ailing mother; while his wife who was making erroneous statements about him was planning a toxic lunch. Utter mismatch. One normal caring individual and one....

Erin was free online to create whatever story she wanted. Where is there any evidence he was controlling? Any that he was controlling her with money? Where is there evidence he was any kind of bad guy? Trying to set some emotional boundaries isn't bad. It's good, healthy, normal, necessary...

If everyone was fatally poisoned that day, including Simon, was she going to be left to break the terrible not-cancer news to the children all by herself? No one would ever have known that was the topic du jour.

She told her online friend she was sick and in the hospital, as if she'd too been poisoned.

The dehydrator? Sounds like she's trying to blame Simon as the reason she threw it out. Make that make sense.

Make any of it make innocent sense.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Narcissists don't love their children except for what they can get from them.

But they can extract A LOT from people who genuinely love them.

Not an accusation, just an observation.

JMO

 

[Porky1]

Clever doggies!
That is quite a haul, the fact that they were hidden (it took the dogs 6 hours to find everything) suggests that there will be some digital trail EP wanted to hide.

Were they hidden or just stashed away in drawers? You would find all those things packed away for travel in my house plus the random drawers that old tech goes in without any thought.

 

[JBowie]

Were they hidden or just stashed away in drawers? You would find all those things packed away for travel in my house plus the random drawers than tech goes in without any thought.

I'm not sure we've been told officially, but I know that the dogs spent something like 6 hours going over the entire property. IIRC, there were reports of some devices located in a bushy area outside.

 

[Porky1]

I'm not sure we've been told officially, but I know that the dogs spent something like 6 hours going over the entire property. IIRC, there were reports of some devices located in a bushy area outside.

I hope we hear more. I understand they’ve built the case but not every discovery suggests guilt imho.

If the various items were buried it raises suspicion if they belonged to her family. She could have been innocently paranoid too or just hiding things from Simon.

The house looks <10 years old. It’s possible that various trades lost items over the course of the building project as well.

 

[drsleuth]

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

This is a good interactive article & Timeline

The Phones

The prosecution alleged in its opening argument that Erin Patterson was using two phones and two separate SIM cards in the weeks before and after the lunch on July 29.

Police conducted a search warrant at Ms Patterson's home on August 5, taking her mobile phone.

Around this time, the prosecution alleges Ms Patterson conducted factory resets on her phone repeatedly.

It is alleged a second phone was in use by Ms Patterson, and this phone has never been recovered by police.

 

[JBowie]

It is alleged a second phone was in use by Ms Patterson, and this phone has never been recovered by police.

I guess police allege that the missing phone was in her name, not a burner phone.

I'd like to know how they decided that she had a second phone: are there messages from it on other phones, or a record of calls? I note that police seem to have been able to track her movements based on mobile tower pings.

Who did she think she was fooling using different SIM cards and numbers? Did she have a different set of contacts on each phone?

I hope we get to hear a proposed explanation of this from the Prosecution.

 

[katydid23]

IMO it is a common sexist misunderstanding in this case, that Erin did not want the divorce or that she needed Simon for money.

I do not have media links for it, but it was discussed many threads ago, that her online friends reflected as her wanting out of that marriage and her wanting a divorce, but religious background of S and his family being not fond of that idea. You can google "Erin who wanted a divorce" for lack of better examples for now.

Of course it is still possible, that she was unhappy about the divorce.

I think she was unhappy about the divorce, but only because she was disappointed in Simon's attitude and lack of devotion etc. Like he failed her so she had to give him the boot.

I still think she poisoned her guests.

Me too.

But I don't think it was "murder because he wanted a divorce and she did not". I really don't see any of that.

Yes, I agree. In fact, the murders were because she DID want the divorce. She wanted to divorce him and his family because she wanted total control of the parenting decisions and the finances. IMO

 

[Megnut]

I think she was unhappy about the divorce, but only because she was disappointed in Simon's attitude and lack of devotion etc. Like he failed her so she had to give him the boot.

Me too.


Yes, I agree. In fact, the murders were because she DID want the divorce. She wanted to divorce him and his family because she wanted total control of the parenting decisions and the finances. IMO

Just not in the regular way people go about it....

 

[katydid23]

Were they hidden or just stashed away in drawers? You would find all those things packed away for travel in my house plus the random drawers that old tech goes in without any thought.

Reportedly one of the devices was hidden in a couch on the back porch. That sounds hidden, most likely. imo

 

[Spectrix]

I guess police allege that the missing phone was in her name, not a burner phone.

I'd like to know how they decided that she had a second phone: are there messages from it on other phones, or a record of calls?

It is alleged that EP had a second phone along with a second SIM that had been in active use around the time of the luncheon. Neither the second phone or second SIM were recovered.
I imagine the police would have had access to service provider records outlining details of calls / texts / and also a record of the IMEI of the device in use with that particular SIM.