Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

what was that description?

"Narcissism actually is a defense mechanism. The narcissist defends against the pain and hurts, against abuse and trauma by inventing a false self."

Narcissist's Psychological Defense Mechanisms | Vaknin Talks

The psyche is a battleground of conflicting forces, including instinctual urges, societal constraints, and moral standards, leading to various forms of anxiety. Defense mechanisms, such as narcissism, acting out, denial, and projection, serve to protect individuals from emotional pain and...

vaknin-talks.com

 

[katydid23]

‘It was just a normal lunch’​

Mandy says on closing.
Well it obviously was not a normal lunch.
If I were a juror, that would irk me,

Yes, that would irk me too. He tried to button up the cross examination with that ridiculous closing line. "...just a normal lunch"

I think Mandy failed to convince the jury that there was a wide variety of colours and sizes of plates. Ian seemed very certain there were 4 large grey ones and one small brightly coloured one.

Ok, I wonder if we are going to learn that LE never found 4 large grey plates at the house?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Red flag after red flag. If l was on the jury l would already be thinking guilty as sin.

This trial is expected to run for about 6 weeks. Yet most of the meatly stuff seems to have already been dealt with. What do the next few weeks hold?

 

[JBowie]

Ok, I wonder if we are going to learn that LE never found 4 large grey plates at the house?

Good question!

 

[drsleuth]

Red flag after red flag. If l was on the jury l would already be thinking guilty as sin.

This trial is expected to run for about 6 weeks. Yet most of the meatly stuff seems to have already been dealt with. What do the next few weeks hold?

BBM : I was thinking of this also. Maybe alot of digital evidence??

 

[SouthAussie]

Red flag after red flag. If l was on the jury l would already be thinking guilty as sin.

This trial is expected to run for about 6 weeks. Yet most of the meatly stuff seems to have already been dealt with. What do the next few weeks hold?

Presumably proof/testimony of how EP sourced the death cap mushrooms, the digital trail, her children's pre-recorded testimony, how and where she disposed of evidence, and whoever the defence is going to bring in to combat the prosecution's case.

We have had an outline in the opening statements, but we are yet to hear all of that testimony/evidence.

imo

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Ok, I wonder if we are going to learn that LE never found 4 large grey plates at the house?

Even if they didn't, it doesn't mean they weren't there on the day in question. How much time elapsed before police conducted a search?

 

[JBowie]

Red flag after red flag. If l was on the jury l would already be thinking guilty as sin.

Studies of juries have found that many jurors in criminal trials make up their minds about guilt or innocence very early. For instance:

"There's a tremendous amount of jury research out there that indicates that jurors make up their mind very early in the case as to guilt or innocence or just the fundamental facts at issue"

https://www.lw.com/admin/upload/SiteAttachments/'Our%20Heads%20Were%20Spinning'%20Trial%20Atty%20Explains%20Rare%20Strategy.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

Even if they didn't, it doesn't mean they weren't there on the day in question. How much time elapsed before police conducted a search?

There is a really good timeline in this article. 7 days before the police had enough for a search warrant and enacted it.
Just a few lines from the timeline ....


February 12 — 15
Erin allegedly starts using two mobile phones, known as Phone A and Phone B, using a SIM card with the number 04XX X X X 783.

July 29
Erin Patterson serves a lunch of beef Wellington to four guests at her home in Leongatha.

August 2
Erin allegedly conducts a factory reset on Phone B, which she had been using before February 12.

August 3
A Victoria Police investigation is launched into the July 29 lunch.
Erin allegedly moves her SIM card with the number 04XX X X X 835 into Phone B.

August 5
Donald dies at 11:30pm.
A search warrant is executed at Erin's Leongatha house, where police seize Phone B with SIM card number 04XX X X X 835.
Erin is taken to Wonthaggi Police Station and interviewed.

August 6
Erin allegedly remotely conducts a factory reset of Phone B, which is still held by police.
Erin allegedly continues to use Phone A with number 04XX X X X 783. Police say they never recover this phone.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JBowie]

BBM : I was thinking of this also. Maybe alot of digital evidence??

IMO, the Prosecution needs to present and pile up evidence of EP's attempts to hide and/or destroy stuff that may implicate her in a plot to kill these people.

By doing so they can keep asking the jury to consider if an innocent person would behave that way. The Defence will presumably continue to counter with the "she panicked" bit but that proposition ought to wear very thin by the time the pile of evidence is built.

 

[SouthAussie]

March 24
Erin is told she has tested negative for cervical cancer after a self-administered screening test.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JBowie]

Has this alleged biopsy appointment been declared a lie?

June 28

Erin allegedly tells Donald and Gail that she has an appointment with St Vincent's Hospital on this date, and tells Gail the next day a biopsy was taken of a lump in her elbow.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Eloise]

"Narcissism actually is a defense mechanism. The narcissist defends against the pain and hurts, against abuse and trauma by inventing a false self."

Narcissist's Psychological Defense Mechanisms | Vaknin Talks

The psyche is a battleground of conflicting forces, including instinctual urges, societal constraints, and moral standards, leading to various forms of anxiety. Defense mechanisms, such as narcissism, acting out, denial, and projection, serve to protect individuals from emotional pain and...

vaknin-talks.com

Yes. Narcissists are very damaging to the people around them and to their relationships, but it is a trauma response. They are deeply unhappy and hurt people. I thought it very interesting that her estranged husband said he doesn't think she has a high self-esteem, and that that isn't only based around her weight/appearance. I assume he means it's more deeply rooted than that.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

It's so strange that she wasn't affected seriously when 3 have died 'unsurvivable' and the other one nearly but miraculously survived, but was in a bad way. Thank god he did pull through and is a witness to what happened

Her kids ate none of the leftovers

I find it odd, though, why her estranged husband cancelled at the last minute? When his parents were going as well as his aunt and uncle?

The accused has continued to lie...Defence lawyers say she admits she panicked and lied to authorities, claiming in her initial police interview she had never owned a dehydrator, but they found it at the tip with her fingerprints on it

She has lied about a medical condition, so she could explain why the kids weren't there

She lied about foraging for mushrooms. Then said she bought some from Woolworths and an Asian shop
But council investigators said they found no dried mushrooms fitting the description at those stores

If this were a huge mistake. You would be helping the police in any way you could, and you certainly wouldn't be lying about anything; You wouldn't even think of that.

You would be suffering from shock, and most likely would be receiving some type of medication for ongoing depression and stress of what you have done of killing 3 people and nearly a fourth one, people who are supposed to be close to you

 

[Ellery84]

It's so hard reading this.....

Why?

 

[Ellery84]

Yes. Narcissists are very damaging to the people around them and to their relationships, but it is a trauma response. They are deeply unhappy and hurt people. I thought it very interesting that her estranged husband said he doesn't think she has a high self-esteem, and that that isn't only based around her weight/appearance. I assume he means it's more deeply rooted than that.

She had photos published online (on Insta I think) of her feet, and that was about the only body part she was comfortable for the world to see online.

I imagine she is horrified that her body and face has been published worldwide, and for that reason alone she may have received to go to jail and get that protection from the photographers lens. IMO.

 

[Ellery84]

Has this alleged biopsy appointment been declared a lie?

June 28

Erin allegedly tells Donald and Gail that she has an appointment with St Vincent's Hospital on this date, and tells Gail the next day a biopsy was taken of a lump in her elbow.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

I just want to say that ovarian cancer is not located on one’s elbow, unless it’s metastatic.

I know that’s obvious, but I wanted to point out the ridiculousness of her cancer lie.

 

[JBowie]

Narcissists are very damaging to the people around them

One trait of narcissists is projection and an example of that in EP's case is the way she complained to people in that SP is a controlling person, yet IMO he comes across as no such thing.

Erin told Facebook friends she was in a "controlling" relationship with Simon. Christine Hunt, a Facebook friend of Erin, told the court Erin had described her marriage as "controlling" and "coercive", and that she was unhappy with Simon's level of family commitment.

'How sad she felt': Erin Patterson confided in online friends, court hears — as it happened

Erin Patterson's Facebook friends took to the witness box in her murder trial over a lunch served to her in-laws containing death cap mushrooms. Look back at how the hearing unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Salah11]

I am just catching up and reading about the pain and suffering to poor Don is horrid. How she could sit there and watch him take And eat half his wife’s food is beyond me + his own pie. This is supposedly somebody she liked

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-husband-simon-pattersons-sharp-sevenword-reply-to-poison-question/news-story/48840a8ce43f9e80b225588ffd594124

Jury’s note to judge

Earlier, as the jury entered about 10.50am trial judge Justice Christopher Beale said he had received a note from the jury.

The note read; “the jury is still struggling to hear when the crown and defence are facing away”, he said.

Responding to the note, Justice Beale said it can be difficult for the lawyers when asking a witness a question but “I’m sure they’ll bear that in mind”.