Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[tmar]

I wonder how she now feels, being locked up, having 'no control'.
For such a manipulative, controlling person, she now is experiencing 'being controlled'.

 

[Ellery84]

I wonder how she now feels, being locked up, having 'no control'.
For such a manipulative, controlling person, she now is experiencing 'being controlled'.

I think that’s also why she didn’t like being in hospital - why she would discharge AMA, because she didn’t like the hospital environment having control over her.

 

[Porky1]

In the end, neither Simon or the Authorities know what might have caused those mystery illnesses.

If it was deliberate, it’s certainly an evil plan which has continued. Scary stuff!

I struggle when I read ‘source’, the media use it too often and is often fabricated.

 

[Porky1]

Back at the start of the case, people suggested that maybe someone placed lethal dried mushrooms in her pantry. And unbeknownst to her, she randomly used them that day and poisoned her loved ones.

So that alternate theory is out the window now. IMO

And that’s where I was stuck. I was curious whether this may have occurred.

 

[Kemug]

I thought we were going to hear from her sister. Surely that's important.

 

[SouthAussie]

She wasn't receiving any government benefits at all when she pulled them out of school. She wanted Simon to pay school fees, medical bills, and also child support. He refused to pay school fees and medical bills, so she pulled them out of the private religious school.

Maybe she didn't want them to be in religious schools anyway. But Simon got the blame for the move.


He told the police that his mother moved houses around seven years prior to the deadly lunch after having a few arguments with his father, Simon Patterson, although the couple did not divorce.
"I know Dad does a lot of things to try and hurt Mum, like messing around with the school," he said in his interview.
Five key takeaways from the second week of Erin Patterson's trial

Hunt added that Patterson described Simon as “controlling” and “coercive”, and shared her challenges in the relationship with the group, including how it was difficult dealing with the religion of Simon and his family given she was an atheist.
‘I’ve been hiding powdered mushrooms in everything’: Erin Patterson’s Facebook messages revealed

Mr Mandy outlines that Erin Patterson was an atheist when she met Simon, but suggests she converted to Christianity as a result of his influence.
Erin Patterson trial live: Mushroom cook doesn't have 'high self-esteem', court hears — as it happened

 

[SouthAussie]

I thought we were going to hear from her sister. Surely that's important.

Maybe she will be a defence witness.


The defence may adduce evidence of the accused's good character (Section 110, Uniform Evidence Act). The evidence may be used to impute that the accused is a good person in general or in a particular respect.

Character Evidence (Vic)

Character evidence is evidence that relates to whether an accused is of good or bad character. Whether or not character evidence is admissible in a proceeding depends on whether the evidence is of good or bad character.

www.gotocourt.com.au

 

[Detechtive]

The defence may adduce evidence of the accused's good character (Section 110, Uniform Evidence Act). The evidence may be used to impute that the accused is a good person in general or in a particular respect.

Character Evidence (Vic)

Character evidence is evidence that relates to whether an accused is of good or bad character. Whether or not character evidence is admissible in a proceeding depends on whether the evidence is of good or bad character.

www.gotocourt.com.au

Except that isn't true. I don't think we are allowed to discuss her criminal history, however.

 

[Detechtive]

We still don’t know if that’s linked. Highly likely of course, but the charges were dropped due to insufficient evidence.

The nightshade family were mentioned in WS. Allergy?

The charges weren't dropped due to insufficient evidence. Where did you get that from?

Charges that would provide tendency evidence to the most serious charges are routinely refused due to prejudice.

 

[SouthAussie]

Except that isn't true. I don't think we are allowed to discuss her criminal history, however.

No we can't, at the moment. But past issues have been discussed back in these threads, because they were in MSM. Prior to sub judice kicking in.

 

[Detechtive]

I thought we were going to hear from her sister. Surely that's important.

I doubt we will hear from her. They are estranged. She would have been a prosecution witness, if anything, IMO.

 

[Porky1]

The charges weren't dropped due to insufficient evidence. Where did you get that from?

Charges that would provide tendency evidence to the most serious charges are routinely refused due to prejudice.

Tbh, I was sure I’d read that when the trial started. Perhaps the first day when the jury was selected. Iam sure I’d read it in this thread but it may have been in one of the media articles or ABC podcast. It doesn’t matter.

I understand re dropping due to more serious charges.

 

[Detechtive]

Tbh, I was sure I’d read that when the trial started. Perhaps the first day when the jury was selected. Iam sure I’d read it in this thread but it may have been in one of the media articles or ABC podcast. It doesn’t matter.

I understand re dropping due to more serious charges.

I haven't read anything that says the reasoning for why they were dropped.

However, I doubt they were dropped due to insufficient evidence because if the claims are /were true, it would be quite easily proven. AFAIK, SP had surgery in a hospital which would require the treating surgeons to take histology specimens which must be kept for 10 years.

 

[SouthAussie]

Tbh, I was sure I’d read that when the trial started. Perhaps the first day when the jury was selected. Iam sure I’d read it in this thread but it may have been in one of the media articles or ABC podcast. It doesn’t matter.

I understand re dropping due to more serious charges.

I don't think we know a reason why the charges were dropped. Just that the jury had to cease to think about them in this trial.

We don't even know if they were dropped with prejudice or without prejudice.
With prejudice meaning that the charges can never be reinstated. Without prejudice meaning that the charges could be reinstated in the future.

imo

 

[Spectrix]

However, I doubt they were dropped due to insufficient evidence because if the claims are /were true, it would be quite easily proven. AFAIK, SP had surgery in a hospital which would require the treating surgeons to take histology specimens which must be kept for 10 years.

Specimens might be able to confirm if a certain toxin was present, and perhaps only in the most serious case which involved hospital intervention.
To test for toxins you need to know what you're looking for.

Let's say it was death caps, and specimens confirmed the presence of the α-amanitin toxin - you could reasonably infer that the cases were linked.
I think it's unlikely that deathcaps were involved since there was no mention of liver damage.

Let's say it was another toxin like Deadly Nightshades, one might be able to prove the existence of a toxin, but not the method of administration. ie - how do you prove EP's involment?

 

[katydid23]

Specimens might be able to confirm if a certain toxin was present, and perhaps only in the most serious case which involved hospital intervention.
To test for toxins you need to know what you're looking for.

Let's say it was death caps, and specimens confirmed the presence of the α-amanitin toxin - you could reasonably infer that the cases were linked.
But it's unlikely that deathcaps were involved since there was no mention of liver damage.

Let's say it was another toxin like Deadly Nightshades, one might be able to prove the existence of a toxin, but not the method of administration. ie - how do you prove EP's involment?

One of the problems too, was that it was apparently a longer slower process. He didn't sit down to a big meal with her and then get sick 8 hours later.

I think it was more of a gradual thing---like when someone is dosing you with small amounts of something in your ice cream every night and your tea every morning. It slowly makes you ill and so there is no specific food or drink to test.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Specimens might be able to confirm if a certain toxin was present, and perhaps only in the most serious case which involved hospital intervention.
To test for toxins you need to know what you're looking for.

Let's say it was death caps, and specimens confirmed the presence of the α-amanitin toxin - you could reasonably infer that the cases were linked.
I think it's unlikely that deathcaps were involved since there was no mention of liver damage.

Let's say it was another toxin like Deadly Nightshades, one might be able to prove the existence of a toxin, but not the method of administration. ie - how do you prove EP's involment?

Dr Beth Morgan said liver tests conducted on all four guests at the Dandenong Hospital returned “abnormal” results.

“I was quite concerned there was evidence of liver damage,” she said.

As their conditions worsened, and the diagnosis of death cap mushrooms became clearer, the lunch guests were eventually moved again, this time to the Austin Hospital intensive care unit in Melbourne.

Mr Wilkinson's wife Heather, and Don and Gail Patterson died In the days that followed.

Surviving lunch guest describes how sickness set in after deadly mushroom meal

Pastor Ian Wilkinson, the sole surviving guest of a lunch containing death cap mushrooms, has given evidence in Erin Patterson's triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Spectrix]

Dr Beth Morgan said liver tests conducted on all four guests at the Dandenong Hospital returned “abnormal” results.

“I was quite concerned there was evidence of liver damage,” she said.

As their conditions worsened, and the diagnosis of death cap mushrooms became clearer, the lunch guests were eventually moved again, this time to the Austin Hospital intensive care unit in Melbourne.

Mr Wilkinson's wife Heather, and Don and Gail Patterson died In the days that followed.

Surviving lunch guest describes how sickness set in after deadly mushroom meal

Pastor Ian Wilkinson, the sole surviving guest of a lunch containing death cap mushrooms, has given evidence in Erin Patterson's triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

@Scooby-Doo we're talking about Simon Patterson's unexplained illness(es) prior to the luncheon. He was in an induced coma for 16 days and only just pulled through.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

@Scooby-Doo we're talking about Simon Patterson's unexplained illness prior to the luncheon. He was in an induced coma for 16 days and only just pulled through.

You would think the hospital would have had records of his attendance and treating Drs

 

[Spectrix]

You would think the hospital would have had records of his attendance and treating Drs

I give up.