Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[MsMarple]

It seems like if Erin asked how the relatives were doing then she wouldn’t have confused Don’s condition with Ian’s. Just saying. IMO

 

[MsMarple]

Mr Mandy continues with his reading of messages.

Further messages dated from December 16 between Erin and Simon Patterson show relations had thawed slightly since the previous messages.

Erin had travelled to New Zealand for a trip with the children, and sent messages back and forth with Simon detailing their travels.

Messages from December 18 are then tendered as evidence.

Erin writes in one message asking for a favour from Simon.

"I understand we don't really have the relationship right now where I can ask for favours…" she writes.

"Hey there, I'm always your husband no matter how we're doing…" Simon responds in his message.

Mr Mandy asks whether the pettiness had abated by this time, but Simon disagrees and says there was still tension.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Unexpected visitors.

Was a maybe, now a certainty so I'll have to catch up later.

Thanks @MsMarple for the updates which I look forward to reading as soon as I can.

 

[Shortfusepsb]

When continually questioned about, if Erin had enquired as to how his parents were, he should have replied, "She categorically DID NOT ask how they were. I have told you that in as many ways as you have asked. Mr Mandy, respectfully, I do not understand which part of SHE DID NOT ASK, you do not understand."

That would have sealed it, and would have done damage to Mandy's defense, and any endearment with the jury that he had built to date.

 

[MsMarple]

I’m surprised the prosecutor isn’t objecting but then I don’t know much about Australian courts vs US courts.

 

[Shortfusepsb]

I’m surprised the prosecutor isn’t objecting but then I don’t know much about Australian courts vs US courts.

The prosecution can absolutely object, however may be holding back as the continued harrassment on the one question may be beneficial in damaging the defence jury relationship. Enough rope, and all that...

 

[MsMarple]

Mr Mandy presses Simon Patterson on his time spent with Erin Patterson at a hospital after the lunch.

He asks Simon to confirm he did not spend the entire time in Erin's room.

"You weren't keeping Erin under constant surveillance, were you?" Mr Mandy says.

"No, that's not my style," Mr Patterson says.

"When you say ... she went to the toilet once, it's obvious enough that's just what you observed.

"You're unable to say how many times she went to the toilet in your absence."

"Yes," Mr Patterson says.

Conversation turns to the dehydrator, which the court hears Erin, Simon and the children discussed in her hotel room.

"You asked, is that what you used to poison me?" Mr Mandy asks.

"I did not say that to Erin," Mr Patterson says.

There is a silence, and we take a five-minute break immediately after this exchange.

 

[MsMarple]

Here comes Erin’s assertion that she dumped the dehydrator after Simon asked her if that’s what she used to poison the relatives.

Woman who cooked suspected poisoned meal details where she bought mushrooms

The woman who cooked a meal that is believed to have contained poisonous mushrooms and led to the deaths of three people gives a lengthy written statement to police detailing her account of what happened, and revealing she was hospitalised after the incident.

www.abc.net.au

In the statement, Ms Patterson admitted she lied to investigators when she told them she had dumped it at the tip "a long time ago".

Ms Patterson said she was at the hospital with her children "discussing the food dehydrator" when her ex-husband, the son of the dead couple, asked: "Is that what you used to poison them?"

Worried that she might lose custody of the couple's children, Ms Patterson said she then panicked and dumped the dehydrator at the tip.

 

[MsMarple]

From abc.net

1m ago

Change of schools discussed​

The discussion turns towards one of Erin and Simon Patterson's children.

Mr Mandy asks if there were discussions about moving one of their children to a different school in order to provide a better learning environment.

"In roughly May 2023, is when I was told that by Erin and [my child]," Mr Patterson says.

Mr Mandy tenders more messages as evidence, these dating back to October 2021.

They show Erin raising the possibility of changing schools for her child, and Simon disagreeing with the idea.

 

[MsMarple]

Key Event
2m ago

Simon Patterson claims 'inflammatory' message came months later​

By Judd Boaz​

Now the crown prosecutor, Nanette Rogers SC, is re-examining Simon Patterson.

Dr Rogers shows Simon another message, and asks if this was the "inflammatory" message he had in mind.

He says it is not.

"The message I had in mind was a few months after this series of messages we've been reading this morning," Mr Patterson says.

Mr Patterson says the anxiety Gail Patterson felt meant she had a policy of avoiding Erin's messages.

"Mum wouldn't read any of the messages that popped up from Erin," Mr Patterson said.

He says he and his father were glad this policy was in place when the inflammatory messages came through.

"I tell you what, if Mum had've read that, I don't know what that would have done to her," Mr Patterson says.

"What was it that was inflammatory?" Dr Rogers asks.

Mr Patterson says it was a message "having a crack" at him and accusing him of things, in the group chat.

"That's not the bit I objected to," he says.

"It was the fact that she sent it, especially to Mum, knowing Mum's condition and what that can do to Mum.

"I'm still upset about that."

 

[MsMarple]

Sounds like Gail’s relationship with Erin wasn’t as rosy as we were told, at least not in recent times.

 

[MsMarple]

'How sad she felt': Erin Patterson confided in online friends, court hears — as it happened

Erin Patterson's Facebook friends took to the witness box in her murder trial over a lunch served to her in-laws containing death cap mushrooms. Look back at how the hearing unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Prosecution asks about Simon's reaction to Erin's reported illness​

By Judd Boaz​

Last week, we heard that Erin Patterson had told her lunch guests she'd been diagnosed with cancer — a claim which was false.

Dr Rogers asks Simon Patterson why he didn't contact his parents after the lunch to inquire about Erin Patterson's medical issue.

He says it was Erin's news to tell and he wanted to respect that.

"I would have been putting [Don and Gail] in an uncomfortable position," he says.

Dr Rogers asks why he didn't directly contact Erin about her serious medical issue, which she had mentioned when inviting him to lunch.

Mr Patterson says he was confused by the fact that although it was an important medical issue, there seemed a lack of urgency to discuss it given the lunch was weeks away.

"I remember feeling puzzled after she invited me to the lunch, that although she’d communicated it was a serious medical issue to be talked about, it was going to be weeks later that the issue was going to be discussed," he says.

"I couldn’t reconcile those two facts."

 

[MsMarple]

Erin Patterson's previous hospital visits​

Dr Rogers asks Simon Patterson about previous visits Erin had made to the hospital.

Previously, Simon told the court that Erin hates hospital.

He recounts two previous incidents — once before their marraige and once after the birth of a child — where Erin left hospital before being discharged, or discharged herself despite hospital advice.

 

[MsMarple]

The hearing has taken a break​

By Joseph Dunstan​

The jury has left the room while Erin Patterson's murder trial takes an adjournment.

'How sad she felt': Erin Patterson confided in online friends, court hears — as it happened

Erin Patterson's Facebook friends took to the witness box in her murder trial over a lunch served to her in-laws containing death cap mushrooms. Look back at how the hearing unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[MsMarple]

Simon’s testimony has ended. Trial resumes at 1:15.

 

[JBowie]

Just reading through the morning's court session as recorded in the Australian.

Given my strong suspicion that EP is a classic narcissist, and given the narcissistic propensity to be vengeful after feeling slighted, I can well see why SP was targeted for punishment and retribution IMO.

(pay-walled)

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/erin-pattersons-estranged-husband-simon-returns-to-witness-box-for-third-day/live-coverage/d603ddc55f7b29e37ee7b8661172c9fa#/entry/11642929

 

[JBowie]

I'm still trying to work out the Defence's strategy. Seems to me that they want the jury to believe that SP is the bad guy here and that anything EP did -- such as fatally poisoning 3 people as per the charges -- was because he drove her to it.

IMO, the Defence has nothing and is really clutching at straws.

 

[MsMarple]

Focus on group chat messages​

Earlier, there was a big focus on messages sent in a group chat that included Erin Patterson, Simon Patterson, and Simon's parents Don and Gail.

This came after last week Simon Patterson indicated there had been "inflammatory" messages sent by his estranged wife that showed she was being aggressive in the months before the deadly lunch.

Erin Patterson's lawyer Colin Mandy SC brought attention to several messages indicating the relationship, while strained during disagreements about parenting arrangements for the children, was moving past an earlier period of "pettiness".

But Simon indicated there had been one message, which he felt should have been sent to him privately, that was instead put into the family group chat.

He says he's still upset Erin sent this message, which would have upset his mother Gail had she seen it.

The court has not heard what the message said.

'How sad she felt': Erin Patterson confided in online friends, court hears — as it happened

Erin Patterson's Facebook friends took to the witness box in her murder trial over a lunch served to her in-laws containing death cap mushrooms. Look back at how the hearing unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Ellery84]

I'm still trying to work out the Defence's strategy. Seems to me that they want the jury to believe that SP is the bad guy here and that anything EP did -- such as fatally poisoning 3 people as per the charges -- was because he drove her to it.

IMO, the Defence has nothing and is really clutching at straws.

They really are, I completely agree!!

 

[drsleuth]

Todays posts from The Age

11.16am

‘That’s odd’: Simon remembers Erin failing to ask about his parents’ condition​

Erin Patterson’s defence lawyer, Colin Mandy, SC, has resumed his cross-examination of Simon Patterson by asking about July 31, 2023 – two days after the beef Wellington lunch.

That day, Simon told the jury, was “very traumatic”. He’d picked up his children and took them to Monash Medical Centre.

He was stressed at the time, he told the court, watching helplessly as his parents’ condition deteriorated. He said he was on the phone with doctors and family members, concerned about everyone’s health.

As Simon speaks of the days after the lunch, Erin Patterson looks on from the dock, wearing a sage green jumper.

Mandy is asking Simon whether Erin may have asked “how are they going?” about the health of the four lunch guests while they were at Monash Medical Centre. Simon said he could not recall her asking. Instead, he remembers thinking it was odd that she hadn’t asked.

“I’d say it is possible but unlikely because it stood out to me ... I sort of would have thought that’d be something that she’d be interested in and asking about, and it sort of, I felt ... It’s a feeling I remember, which is, ‘That’s odd’,” he said.

11.36am

‘I foolishly trusted him’: The message that laid bare Erin’s sense of financial betrayal​

Simon Patterson appears relaxed in the witness box, is sipping from a cup of water and occasionally glancing at Erin Patterson at the back of the court. While Simon speaks, Erin looks around the room, mainly towards the jury and her barrister, Colin Mandy, SC.

The jury is being shown a series of messages sent to a family chat on the messaging app Signal between December 4 and December 17, 2022. Simon and his parents, Don and Gail, were all part of the chat. So was Erin.

On December 5, 2022, Erin sent the chat a long message. It said:

I’m sorry, but I can’t stop thinking about the comment that Don made on the phone, that the financial issues are probably easily solved, and that Simon can ‘reverse the single thing in his tax return’.

That is mind boggling in its implication.

If that’s really what he said he would do, reversing the single thing is basically telling the government that Simon and I are not separated anymore and that were still married and living together as a couple and have shared finances, so that they consider our income as a whole.

The immediate implications of that would be that I can no longer claim Family Tax Benefit, which is around $15,000 a year, and which would be my only income. It is a government benefit that was foregone the entire time Simon was working on LandGipps, even though we didn’t share finances either.

We were basically lying to the government, telling them that we were a family with shared finances so they wouldn’t make him pay child support. I would have been entitled to about 30K a year child support from Simon during the three years he was at LandGipps, but I didn’t claim it because I foolishly trusted him to do right by me and the kids when it came to crunch.

But I was wrong to do so ... It seems to be that cancelling in school fees and refusing to help ... has been a punishment to me for playing with child support, which is unconscionable. Both parents have a duty to financially support the children they made.

Simon is hiding behind the communication from the government ...”

Don responded with a message saying he may have “misled” Erin, and Erin replied that she understood Don and Gail’s position that they would not be involved in the issue. Erin wrote that she hoped Don and Gail would be concerned about decisions Simon was making “that are in the best interests of his children, and not just operating from a place of being angry”.

Erin then wrote that Simon seemed to be under the “misapprehension that a child support assessment covers every expense for the children”, where “that’s just not the case”.



11.45am

‘I’m always your husband, no matter how we’re doing’: Messages reveal complex ties between Erin and Simon Patterson​

​

Simon Patterson has just asked the associate for a box of tissues.

More messages from the family Signal group are being shown to the jury on iPads and large screens in courtroom 4 of the Morwell courthouse, where mushroom cook Erin Patterson is on trial for murder.

Some messages between Erin and Simon Patterson from December 18, 2022 are being shown.

The exchange starts with Erin messaging Simon requesting help to deal with a tree that had fallen across the fence at her home in Leongatha, which joins a back paddock.

“I understand we don’t really have the kind of relationship right now where I can ask for favours, but I don’t have anywhere else to turn,” Erin wrote.

“I’ve asked my fence guy and lawn mowing guy, but they can’t help on a Sunday. I wondered if you’re about to help, please. He didn’t seem to think it needed chainsawing, but I can’t say for sure.”

Simon responded that he was in Brisbane and could not help.

“Hey there. I’m always your husband, no matter how we’re doing. So, no problems with you asking. I’d be up for it, but I’m in Brisbane, so I can’t today. Sorry. I’ll be back tomorrow if it can wait,” Simon said.

Asked by Erin’s lawyer, Colin Mandy, SC, whether tension about child support had abated by the time those messages were sent, Simon said there was still lingering tension about it.


12.05pm

Messages reveal school switching debate between Erin and Simon Patterson​

The jury is now being shown Signal messages between Simon Patterson and accused murderer Erin Patterson from a little earlier – from October 25, 2021. The messages are about potentially moving their children to a different school.

During the exchange, Erin wrote to Simon to say they should consider enrolling the children at the new school sooner rather than later. “[We] need to organise next year’s enrolments well before end of term 4,” she wrote.

Simon responded that he wasn’t seriously suggesting they move schools and said that their current school was pretty good overall. He added that the children had friends there and that was “really valuable”.

Simon told the court that one of their children was struggling at school, and there was a discussion about resources to help.


12.10pm

‘I did not say that’: Simon denies accusing Erin of poisoning at Monash​

Finishing his cross-examination of Simon Patterson, defence counsel Colin Mandy, SC, skipped to the events at Monash Medical Centre following the deadly lunch, when Erin disclosed she had previously dehydrated mushrooms.

Simon told the jury it was possible that the children would have left the hospital room to go to the vending machine, leaving him and Erin alone.

Simon denied he had asked Erin if she had poisoned his parents by using the dehydrator.

Mandy: Let me suggest that just after the conversation about the dehydrator, you said to Erin: ‘Is that what you used to poison them?’

Simon: I did not say that to Erin.”

12.22pm

The message Simon never wanted his mother to read – and why it still haunts him​

Senior Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers, SC, is now starting her re-examination of Simon Patterson.

She begins by asking Simon about the messages from Erin that he described as inflammatory and extremely aggressive during his cross-examination.

“The message I had in mind was a few months after this series of messages we’ve been reading this morning,” Simon said.

Simon said his mother, Gail, had struggled with anxiety since suffering from encephalitis. He told the jury that his parents agreed that for that reason, Gail would not read any messages that would pop up from Erin.

At the time, Simon said, he was catching up with one of the children on Friday and Saturday nights. “There are a couple of weekends where [the child] was extremely tired. Slept the whole time like ... [the child was] exhausted,” Simon said.

Simon told the court he had asked Erin privately to get the child to bed earlier.

Erin, he said, responded by messaging the group chat with Don and Gail.

“That is the message that I had in mind that was extremely inflammatory,” Simon said.

“And I tell you what, if Mum had read that, I don’t know what that would have done to her. It was having a crack at me and accusing me of some things in response to what I messaged her about ... It was the fact that she [Erin] sent it especially to Mum, and knowing Mum’s condition and what that can do to Mum. That was the reason I’m still upset about.”


12.33pm

Simon questioned about Erin’s faith​

​

Prosecutor Nanette Rogers, SC, also asked Simon about his estranged wife’s religious beliefs, since she first identified as an atheist when they met.

Simon said they didn’t attend church regularly as a family until after he and Erin separated in 2015. “A lot of that was because Erin felt really anxious about disrupting the church service with a little kid, or that’s what she told me,” Simon said.

He told the jury he often looked after the children on the weekend, so he started taking the children along to church. Simon said Erin started attending regularly after that.

Later, he said, she also started helping out with the service livestream when COVID restrictions hit.

12.35pm

Simon puzzled by beef Wellington lunch invitation​

​

Simon told the jury he remembered feeling puzzled about being invited by Erin to the July 29, 2023 lunch.

“I remember feeling puzzled after she invited me to the lunch that although she’d communicated it was a serious medical issue that was to be talked about, it was going to be weeks later that the conversation was going to happen,” Simon said. “I couldn’t reconcile those two facts.”

Asked by prosecutor Nanette Rogers, SC, why he hadn’t contacted Erin after the lunch to find out what the issue was, Simon said he didn’t feel too much urgency. “I figured that’s her news to tell. It’s her timing to tell it,” he said.

Simon also described the two occasions before the fatal lunch that Erin discharged herself from hospital.

The first time was before he and Erin married, he said, when Erin was admitted to hospital with low potassium. Simon said Erin was put on a drip overnight. She discharged herself the next morning, he said, after doctors took several hours to deal with the formalities to discharge her from hospital.

The second occasion, he said, was after their first child was born and Erin was in hospital recovering from a cesarean section. She decided to leave hospital a few days later against medical advice, Simon said.

Simon Patterson has now finished his evidence and has been excused. Justice Christopher Beale has sent the jury to an early lunch break.

Erin Patterson told online friends she was ‘hiding powdered mushrooms in everything’, court hears: Trial day five, as it happened

Erin Patterson’s estranged husband Simon will continue providing evidence in her murder trial. Follow our live blog.

www.theage.com.au