Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[drsleuth]

I would have expected that yet, as I posted a bit earlier, the fact that she gave police permission over the phone from hospital to break and enter and she told police to look in the bin for meal leftovers runs contrary to a need to urgently be rid of potentially damning evidence.

A major in-the-moment slip-up on her part?

Do we know for sure that the leftovers contained Death Cap? Maybe it was leftover untainted ones?

 

[Spectrix]

I would have expected that yet, as I posted a bit earlier, the fact that she gave police permission over the phone from hospital to break and enter and she told police to look in the bin for meal leftovers runs contrary to a need to urgently be rid of potentially damning evidence.

A major in-the-moment slip-up on her part?

Or she knew full well that the leftovers were from the non-lethal batch made for herself and her children.

 

[Little Jack]

At 10.04am, Webster received a call from police officers who said they were at Erin’s Leongatha residence.

Webster asked Erin, who was in hospital, if police could break into her home and collect leftover samples of the beef wellington dish. She provided permission and told them there would be remnants in the bin, the court hears.

The fact that she allowed police to break and enter and also told them the remnants would be in the bin strikes me as odd in the supposed deliberate poisoning circumstances. I would have expected her to make up some story about there being no leftovers or they were fed to the dog, or similar, and then go straight home from the hospital and make sure that there were no locatable remnants.

In fact I would expect the Defence to jump on her 'assisting police' as proof that she had nothing to hide. Hmmm.

She knew the left overs in the bin were not poisoned so she didnt care if they found them.

 

[Old Soul]

I would have expected that yet, as I posted a bit earlier, the fact that she gave police permission over the phone from hospital to break and enter and she told police to look in the bin for meal leftovers runs contrary to a need to urgently be rid of potentially damning evidence.

A major in-the-moment slip-up on her part?

“The leftovers collected from Erin Patterson’s bin and transported to Monash Medical Centre and the Royal Botanic Gardens were tested and did not show any sign of death cap mushrooms, the jury heard.”

Alleged mushroom cook didn’t ingest death caps, ‘no record’ she had cancer, jury told: Trial day one, as it happened

Erin Patterson is facing trial after pleading not guilty over a fatal mushroom lunch. Today, Nanette Rogers, SC, will present the prosecution’s case against Patterson.

www.smh.com.au

I imagine any death cap containing food etc was disposed of elsewhere and EP knew the leftovers in her bin were from the non-poisoned batch.

Only she forgot about the dehydrator….

 

[SouthAussie]

Erin had time to clean things up a bit before the police went for the leftovers. And they didn't have a search warrant at that time. Just permission to go into the bin and get leftovers.

The poisoning happened on 29th July. She didn't present to the hospital until 31st July.

The police didn't launch their investigation until 3rd August - until then it was in the hands of doctors and the Dept of Health.


July 31
Doctors at Leongatha and Dandenong Hospital confer about the poisonings. Don, Gail, Heather and Ian are transferred to the Austin Hospital in Melbourne.

Erin drops her children to school, then texts Simon and asks him to take her to hospital, but he tells her to get there herself.

Erin presents to Leongatha Hospital around 8am, but allegedly declines a full examination and checks herself out. Erin returns to the hospital around 9:48am. She is transferred to Monash Medical Centre, and meets Simon and her children there.

August 3
A Victoria Police investigation is launched into the July 29 lunch.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kemug]

I thought we heard that Erin never once asked about the victims. But they asked about her, those poor suffering lovely people.

 

[Kemug]

She knew the left overs in the bin were not poisoned so she didnt care if they found them.

In fact she wanted them to.

 

[Kemug]

She knows that her relatives are suffering and dying from Death Cap poisoning, but she also knows that she isn't. She is smart enough to fake some symptoms - but not smart enough to fake any concern for herself and her children. I think her intelligence has been greatly exaggerated.

 

[SouthAussie]

She knows that her relatives are suffering and dying from Death Cap poisoning, but she also knows that she isn't. She is smart enough to fake some symptoms - but not smart enough to fake any concern for herself and her children. I think her intelligence has been greatly exaggerated.

It can be a narcissistic trait to lack empathy. They sometimes know to mirror empathy, but they don't really mean it.
There is some wiring missing in their emotive brain.

I think that her lawyer is right that she was panicking, but I don't think the panic was necessarily about accidental poisonings.
I think she might have been panicking because the doctors were getting pretty emphatic that she and her children must be seen to, and people were questioning plates, and there was a dehydrator sitting at her house, and poisoning experts wanted to know about the mushrooms .....

Hence, she forgot to be empathic and concerned for her in-laws.

imo

 

[Spectrix]

I think that her lawyer is right that she was panicking, but I don't think the panic was necessarily about accidental poisonings.

Yep, she was panicking about being caught.

 

[JBowie]

“The leftovers collected from Erin Patterson’s bin and transported to Monash Medical Centre and the Royal Botanic Gardens were tested and did not show any sign of death cap mushrooms, the jury heard.”

Alleged mushroom cook didn’t ingest death caps, ‘no record’ she had cancer, jury told: Trial day one, as it happened

Erin Patterson is facing trial after pleading not guilty over a fatal mushroom lunch. Today, Nanette Rogers, SC, will present the prosecution’s case against Patterson.

www.smh.com.au

I imagine any death cap containing food etc was disposed of elsewhere and EP knew the leftovers in her bin were from the non-poisoned batch.

Only she forgot about the dehydrator….

Thanks, I missed that bit.

Yes, the dehydrator is the 'smoking gun'.

 

[Spectrix]

Yes, the dehydrator is the 'smoking gun'.

This case is quite unique in that the murder weapon was eaten by the victims long before the police could get hold of it.

 

[Porky1]

I think that there would have been a significant amount of time that Simon was unable to work also when he was also on death's door.

Paid leave and then wfh, I am sure.

I think I read that he worked for the council as a Civil Engineer. Conditions and leave are very generous.

 

[JBowie]

The mushroom murders trial begins – Guardian Australia podcast

Not a bad verbal summary of the trial to date.

One thing I learned here is that jury was given some 160 names of people involved in the case, some of whom are court staff, ... so the witness list may be quite long.

 

[JBowie]

 

[JBowie]

 

[JBowie]

 

[Detechtive]

I have been trying to see if she can plead guilty now that the trial has commenced (because I thought she could).
As pleading guilty "should" reduce a sentence to some degree.


In NSW a person can ..... You can change your plea to guilty any time before or during the hearing, but if you are considering changing your plea, get legal advice as soon as possible. Legal Aid NSW


I think a person can in Victoria also, but this link is for the Magistrates Court, and I can't find a definitive answer for the Supreme Court of Victoria .... If you plead not guilty and you change your mind, you can change your plea to guilty at any time. You should seek legal advice if you would like to change your plea. Magistrates Court of Victoria


(Though, obviously, a plea cannot be changed after a verdict. Every link I read said that.)

They do say that if you change your plea to guilty during a trial, you may have to pay the prosecutor's fees. Probably because you wasted the prosecutor's time. imo

She can still plead, but once the trial begins no percentage discounts are offered, usually. Even if you plead in the days leading up to a trial you usually won’t get much or any discount. In NSW it’s 25% or so months prior and only around 10% in the lead up.

It’s interesting that nobody so far really has anything bad to say about her as a person.

You’d expect the knowledge of what she (likely) did would colour their recollections and influence them to share any times when she displayed character flaws like rage, resentment, cruelty etc. Yet nobody has reported anything like this.

It really does sound like she came across as a nice, ordinary person before this event.

The “bad things” people had to say were probably deemed inadmissible.

It seems clear to me that she planned on killing Simon and his in-laws in June, but when Simon declined to attend, she changed tactic to invite more family and make the reasoning more urgent (the fake illness). It appears she was losing control of Simon and couldn’t force him to engage anymore. This was a way to exert more pressure on him to come to the July lunch, where she planned to kill them all, in my opinion.

 

[Detechtive]

She knew the left overs in the bin were not poisoned so she didnt care if they found them.

I think it’s odd that she put the leftovers in a brown woolies bag and knew exactly where to point police to. I couldn’t tell you where leftovers from the last weeks meals were, other than in a normal kitchen bag lining the bin in my kitchen, or in a couple of normal plastic kitchen bags disposed of in the street bin in the prior days.

I think she strategically placed them in a brown paper bag in the bin so she could point to them as “evidence it wasn’t poison from her house” and she did so before the police got there when she left the hospital.

JMO

 

[Gardeningbook]

I’ve joined just to discuss this case-it’s so fascinating.
I’m of the opinion that the beef wellingtons (or at least significant aspects of them) were already prepared before Simon cancelled. So it wasn’t a spur of the moment decision.
Really struggling with a motive. The closest we’ve come is the loans to his family members.
I’m amazed at how measured and almost polite they all seem about her.