Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[Old Soul]

Curious:
Wonder why Erin did not dispose of the dehydrator months before the lunch … at time of mushroom collection & drying. The dumped dryer would be long gone by the lunch.

Initially thought she disposed of it because it might be toxic after the death cap drying (but we have learned that collecting was months before lunch).
But
she must have still been using the dehydrator and the trace residue didn’t contaminate other items she dried.

She panic-disposed of it because it might indicate she was foraging?
Or did she think there was trace residue?
Did she risk cross contamination ?

I want to know about this dehydrator forensic results.

Maybe she didn’t dump the dehydrator earlier because she had plans to use it again for more poisonings? After all she had no guarantee that the poisoning would be a success, as it turns out one intended lunch guest didn’t attend and another (only just) survived.

 

[iamshadow21]

Maybe she didn’t dump the dehydrator earlier because she had plans to use it again for more poisonings? After all she had no guarantee that the poisoning would be a success, as it turns out one intended lunch guest didn’t attend and another (only just) survived.

It could have been what I think of as the shoe factor.

(This is regardless of her intent, the fact that death caps were in the dehydrator is a fact, whether it was purposeful or accidental.)

Evidence is often found on shoes, because while people will often dispose of clothing, the cost of shoes tends to mean people keep them and perhaps try to clean them rather than bin them.

The dehydrator was an expensive purchase. She could have bought a cheap one for about forty bucks. Instead, she spent hundreds. And so perhaps she was reluctant to dispose of it because of that cost, regardless of the contamination. Only once the pressure of the investigation of the illness of her lunch guests escalated did she discard it.

MOO

 

[L_B]

#4 what? Hold up. She told him he was eating the same meat from the meal that was making everyone else ill????? Was she trying to scare him? Something very proxy munchauseny about that. Here, let me shake up your foundation so you'll need me for support.

What time was Erin supposedly aware that the lunch guests were all sick? Before or after she dished up dinner? Did the kids know at dinner time their grandparents and great-aunt/uncle were sick, and what was the cause behind it. (at that point in time, prior to the hospital knowing it was death caps)?

Because if there was any hint of it being from "food poisoning".... You are right, that is some diabolical s!@# right there either way you put it. If you were innocent and maybe you thought at that time it was just basic food poisoning, why would you risk dishing that up to your kids?

 

[drsleuth]

Here are the updates today from The Guardian

Canavan will challenge Littleproud for Nationals leadership – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

5h ago10.59 AEST

Erin Patterson’s trial resumes with video of daughter giving evidence​

Adeshola Ore
We’re following Erin Patterson’s triple murder trial today and will bring you live updates.

Patterson, 50, has pleaded not guilty to three charges of murder and one charge of attempted murder relating to a beef wellington lunch she served at her house in Leongatha, regional Victoria, on 29 July 2023.

Patterson’s daughter, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has given pre-recorded video evidence. The prosecution began playing the video, where she was interviewed by police, on Thursday.

In the remainder of the video shown this morning, her daughter recalls what happened the day after the lethal lunch. The interviewers ask Patterson’s daughter about her previous evidence that she ate leftovers of the mushroom meal with her mother and brother.

Patterson’s daughter says her mother told her they were eating the leftovers of the lunch.

The police officer asks: “What did she say?”

Patterson’s daughter says:

I remember I was asking her what we were having that night and she said she was making leftovers from yesterday’s lunch.

4h ago11.08 AEST

Adeshola Ore
Patterson a ‘very good cook’, daughter says

Erin Patterson’s daughter has told the trial her mother was a “very good cook”.

The daughter’s pre-recorded video evidence is being played to the jury in Patterson’s triple murder trial.

Asked by the police officer what her mother would cook, she says Patterson had made “lots of stuff before”.

Patterson’s daughter tells the interviewer she does not like mushrooms but sometimes eats them. She says her mother sometimes bought mushrooms at the IGA in Korumburra or Woolworths in Leongatha.

Asked about the last time she bought mushrooms with her mother, she says she cannot remember. She says she had not been to an Asian grocery shop before with her mother.


3h ago12.45 AEST

Adeshola Ore
Erin Paterson’s son gives evidence in murder trial

Back to the Patterson trial.

Erin Patterson’s son has told her trial his father did “lots of things to try and hurt mum.”

The jury is being shown pre-recorded video evidence of Patterson’s son, who cannot be named for legal reasons. In the video, he is being interviewed by a police officer.

Asked about his parent’s relationship prior to the lunch, he says it was “very negative”

“I know dad does a lot of things to try to hurt mum,” he says.

He points to his father’s name not being on the school bills and him wanting to be able to access his children’s activities and reports.

He says for the past year he and his sister had been living at their mother house full time. He says their father, Simon Patterson, had tried to convince him and his sister to “come back.”

“I said I didn’t want to because he never did anything with us over the weekend,” he says.

Patterson’s son says he recalls his mother preparing a salad on the morning of the lunch but did not see any other food.

3h ago12.59 AEST

Erin Patterson’s son tells court he ate leftovers of mushroom meal the next day​

Adeshola Ore
Turning our focus back to the Erin Patterson trial for a moment.

Erin Patterson’s son ate leftovers of the deadly mushroom meal the next day, describing it as “some of the best meat I’ve ever had”.

In pre-recorded video evidence, Patterson’s son says the meat he and his sister consumed the day after the lunch in July 2023 was “eye fillet” beef. He says his mother heated up the meat that she had cooked a day earlier.

Patterson’s son describes the meat, which he says was served with potatoes and beans:

“It was very soft ... some of the best meat I’ve ever had,” he says.

He says the meat was a “block” and did not have anything on it.

Patterson’s son says he saw his mother preparing the meat and asked her if it was leftovers, which she confirmed.

“Sometimes I don’t like leftover meat as much as fresh meat but I really liked this meat,” he says.

Patterson’s son says the meat looked the same as the meat he saw his mother cooking the day of the lunch in a frypan.

He says his mother complained of dizziness and diarrhoea and did not eat any leftovers.

1h ago14.20 AEST

Adeshola Ore
Patterson trial adjourned for the day

Back to the Patterson trial.

Erin Patterson’s son has recalled a “fond” memory of his mother taking a photograph of a mushroom in mid-2020 while on a walk together.

His pre-recorded video evidence, where he is interviewed by a police officer, has been shown to his mother’s murder trial.

In the video, he told the interviewer about going on a walk in Korumburra’s Botanic Park with his mother during Covid and seeing mushrooms.

“I remember Mum took a picture of them because she thought they looked nice,” he said.

“I don’t remember what they look like.”

Patterson’s son said he had never foraged or picked mushrooms with his mother.

He also told the interviewer about helping his mother clean up after the lunch in July 2023. He said he did not see any leftovers from the meal that needed to be scraped into the bin. Asked about the plates from the lunch, he said they were white dinner plates and that they were all the same.

The trial before Justice Christopher Beale will resume on Tuesday.

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-video-evidence-of-mushroom-cooks-daughter-to-continue/news-story/8bf876ea681c576d1c2b5726bdc7324b

He told the interviewer he and his sister had previously been staying with Simon Patterson after school Friday through to Monday and with Ms Patterson from Monday evening though to Friday morning.

But in the past year they had only stayed at Ms Patterson’s home, by choice.

“For the past year we’ve been living at mum’s, sleeping at mum’s, for the last year he’s trying to get me and (sister) to stay at his... but I didn’t really want to,” he said.

“I told him I really didn’t want to because he never did anything with us over the weekend.”

‘Lego’: Mushroom cook’s after-lunch activity

Ms Patterson’s son also told police in the interview played to the jury that he saw his mother building Lego hours after serving a deadly meal to four in-laws.

Children were pulled out of school on August 1: Son
On the Monday after the lunch, Ms Patterson’s son told police he and his younger sister were pulled out of school by their father and taken to the Monash Children’s Hospital in Melbourne.
He said he visited Ms Patterson in hospital and had three blood tests over Monday and Tuesday before being sent home.

He told the interviewer he did not feel sick.

“In the end it was nothing,” he said.

“Then we just stayed with mum and went back to school on Wednesday.”

 

[drsleuth]

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The son asked if the meal was leftovers, and Patterson confirmed it was.
‘She cooked it all on Saturday and then heated it up for me and <modsnip: name of minor redacted> on Sunday night,’ he said.
But the boy said he didn’t see how she prepared it.
Patterson also told him the in-laws were feeling sick, so she thought it might be the lunch but he said he 'didn’t feel unwell at all.'
The son said after dinner his mum 'wasn’t feeling well'.
‘She said she was feeling a little dizzy at that point and she had diarrhoea.’
All three then watched a TV show after dinner called Tradies which he said the family 'were working through'.
The next day he saw his mum in hospital who he said was awake but 'very tired'.
He said she got up to use the toilet.
‘She said she was clammy, and dizzy,’ he said.
He also recalled going to Melbourne for sister’s drama classes and confirmed they would stay at the Glen Waverley home during the Easter school holidays.
The son was also probed about his mum's relationship with his grandparents.‘(It was a) positive one, like it’s not strong,’ he said.
The boy also told police he had recently changed schools prior to the deadly lunch.
'That's what I think happened,' the boy said at the end of his interview.


BBM : So she still fed the leftovers to her kids after knowing the other lunch guests were unwell, that must speak volumes to the jury!

 

[drsleuth]

Son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson said relationship between parents ‘very negative’

The pre-recorded video evidence of Patterson’s children was played to the jury on Friday, the ninth day of the murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

The son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson described the relationship between his parents as “very negative” and told investigators his father “does a lot of things to try and hurt” his mother.


“Recently, so before the lunch, it’s all been very negative. I know dad does a lot of things to try and hurt mum, such as messing around with schooling,” he said.

snip

Later that day, when it was time to take his friend home after a sleepover, the boy said he found his mother upstairs building Lego.

“I came upstairs and said, ‘Hey mum, it’s getting late, so should we bring him back now?’” he said.


snip

“How did you know it was leftovers from the day before?” the interviewer asked.

“Because mum said it was left over,” the boy replied. “When she said it was dinner time I came out and thought I’d seen it on the day … of the lunch. She’d been making it for lunch. She said, ‘Yes it’s leftovers’.

“I really liked this meat.”

The boy also recalled on the morning of the lunch seeing his mother preparing meat in a frying pan that was plugged into the wall. After the Saturday lunch, the boy said he helped clean up by stacking what he remembered were white plates left on the table and leaving them on the sink alongside some glasses.

“I collected all the plates. I collected all the glasses, put them next to the sink. They were white plates that were 15 centimetres in diameter, they were raised on the edge. Slightly curved up,” he said. “Dinner plates.”

 

[Detechtive]

There is always variance, that's why every medication has a laundry list of possible side effects. It may not be an issue for the majority of people, but it's significant enough that it has to have a disclaimer that covers all bases.

Every individual has their own body chemistry, their own vulnerabilities. One can say X amount of people will likely die when exposed to X amount of mushroom, but that's not deep, it's not going into why some die quicker or slower, or why some live when they eat exactly what their dinner mates did.

As far as I know, statistics can give a rough estimate for how likely an individual is to die or live, but that number is exactly the same for everyone else at the table. So everyone could have died, everyone could have lived, or two could have died and two lived. That doesn't mean the statistics are wrong. It just means that without variables (pre-existing conditions, vulnerabilities, amount consumed) everyone had an equal chance of survivability. Just because one person died didn't make the others more likely to live, or vice versa.

MOO

They are averages, so there is some "noise" on either side, but they are generally pretty reliable, especially when it comes to toxic loads.

I can't explain this in a few soundbites on chat, but suffice to say, I am following the science in this matter.

 

[iamshadow21]

Son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson said relationship between parents ‘very negative’

The pre-recorded video evidence of Patterson’s children was played to the jury on Friday, the ninth day of the murder trial.

www.theage.com.au

The son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson described the relationship between his parents as “very negative” and told investigators his father “does a lot of things to try and hurt” his mother.


“Recently, so before the lunch, it’s all been very negative. I know dad does a lot of things to try and hurt mum, such as messing around with schooling,” he said.

snip

Later that day, when it was time to take his friend home after a sleepover, the boy said he found his mother upstairs building Lego.

“I came upstairs and said, ‘Hey mum, it’s getting late, so should we bring him back now?’” he said.


snip

“How did you know it was leftovers from the day before?” the interviewer asked.

“Because mum said it was left over,” the boy replied. “When she said it was dinner time I came out and thought I’d seen it on the day … of the lunch. She’d been making it for lunch. She said, ‘Yes it’s leftovers’.

“I really liked this meat.”

The boy also recalled on the morning of the lunch seeing his mother preparing meat in a frying pan that was plugged into the wall. After the Saturday lunch, the boy said he helped clean up by stacking what he remembered were white plates left on the table and leaving them on the sink alongside some glasses.

“I collected all the plates. I collected all the glasses, put them next to the sink. They were white plates that were 15 centimetres in diameter, they were raised on the edge. Slightly curved up,” he said. “Dinner plates.”

I think he's got his measurements wrong. 15cm diameter is more a bread and butter plate size.

 

[Corina]

I think he's got his measurements wrong. 15cm diameter is more a bread and butter plate size.

such as might be used for cake, perhaps, or fruit...

 

[iamshadow21]

such as might be used for cake, perhaps, or fruit...

Exactly.

A standard dinner plate is 26cm, almost double.

Bread and butter plates are between 17 and 20cm, depending on the design.

(Yes, I just measured my plates. You're welcome, everyone.)

MOO

 

[Detechtive]

Maybe she didn’t dump the dehydrator earlier because she had plans to use it again for more poisonings? After all she had no guarantee that the poisoning would be a success, as it turns out one intended lunch guest didn’t attend and another (only just) survived.

The death caps only bloom in May. They wouldn't have been viable after June to dehydrate.

Maybe she's just thrifty... didnt want to throw out a great kitchen appliance?

 

[Marg944]

Department of Health in Victoria has issued a warning just 3 days ago about the appearance of the death cap mushrooms now that Autumn is upon us.

Poisonous mushrooms growing in Victoria

Poisonous mushrooms including Death Cap mushrooms and Yellow-staining mushrooms occur in Victoria during Autumn, as the weather becomes wetter and cooler.

www.health.vic.gov.au

 

[Kemug]

And a ‘good’ orangey-tan plate as well may be

And maybe the grey plates were such a pale grey that the children perceived them as white.

 

[Spectrix]

The son of alleged mushroom lunch killer Erin Patterson described the relationship between his parents as “very negative” and told investigators his father “does a lot of things to try and hurt” his mother.
"It’s all been very negative. I know dad does a lot of things to try and hurt mum, such as messing around with schooling,” he said.

He told the interviewer he and his sister had previously been staying with Simon Patterson after school Friday through to Monday and with Ms Patterson from Monday evening though to Friday morning.
But in the past year they had only stayed at Ms Patterson’s home, by choice.
“For the past year we’ve been living at mum’s, sleeping at mum’s, for the last year he’s trying to get me and (sister) to stay at his... but I didn’t really want to,” he said.
“I told him I really didn’t want to because he never did anything with us over the weekend.”

I find it sad that Simon has to hear this information this way, particularly the son's words.
From my perspective there are a couple of things going on.

• The court reporters are quite selective about what they choose to take from an entire police interview, condensing (90 minutes?) into a few paragraphs with an emphasis on negative content.
• Erin Patterson's own recounting of events and happenings to her children has very much shaped their perspective of the relationship between her and Simon, what was said between them, and the context under which things happened or were said. Her negativity about Simon is very clear through the son's words.
• Simon, as we've seen by his texts and communication between him and Erin, is not at all negative towards Erin.
• Simon perhaps isn't particularly proactive in arranging activities for the kids when he has them. If anything positive comes from this event, it's an opportunity to improve his relationship with his children. Both from his own actions, and from the absence of Erin's negative input.

All MOO

 

[Megnut]

Maybe she didn’t dump the dehydrator earlier because she had plans to use it again for more poisonings? After all she had no guarantee that the poisoning would be a success, as it turns out one intended lunch guest didn’t attend and another (only just) survived.

Consciousness of guilt.

IMO she didn't anticipate scrutiny. Previously she kept the dehydrator for continued use. As soon as her story was questioned, the dehydrator became a hot liability.

JMO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

But the relatives said they were served on grey dishes with the exception of Erin who used a colorful dish. Puzzling.

Wellington main course plates cleared from table.
White plates on table now for dessert?

 

[JBowie]

Consciousness of guilt.

IMO she didn't anticipate scrutiny. Previously she kept the dehydrator for continued use. As soon as her story was questioned, the dehydrator became a hot liability.

JMO

Reusing a dehydrator that has been used for highly toxic mushrooms is just crazy. She can't have washed it very well given that forensics were able to detect death cap toxin in it. I do have to wonder about EPs supposed intelligence.

 

[Megnut]

It's not what time Erin learned the others were sick that's critical. If she commit these crimes, she knew they were going to be irreversibly sick after they cleaned their plates.

What IS critical is what time she told the children. If they were aware before the first outside alert came in, how could she know that unless she was aware already, having served the toxin?

As it was, it appears she was carefully backdating her "symptoms" so the children would recall her having them.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

When did Erin pull the children from private school? Before or after Simon changed his tax status to 'separated'?

If after, it seems like -- asking other reasons -- it might have been in part a financial thing, after the loss of the tax credit.

A questionable tax credit. Yes, they were still married but they were living apart. Ethically, were they stretching the law?

Supposedly, for the purposes of the luncheon, Erin wanted advice on how to tell the children about the cancer she didn't have, the children were told that the adults were going to be talking about "adult things" so Erin certainly seemed aware of protecting children from adult affairs. However, in practice, was she? The son sure has an impression of his father's shortcomings, and they all appear to have been served to him by Erin, involving a child in adult things.

Was Simon supposed to defend himself? Same, with his parents? His ailing mother? The other couple? Engage in back in forth in front of the children? Involve his family? And if he doesn't defend himself? Does that make Erin right? Or does that simply show that Simon was trying to do right, by not pulling other people into their private differences?

It sure looks like Erin was purposefully drawing up sides, attempting to influence the war by pulling all the soldiers to her side.

JMO