Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[drsleuth]

2m ago06.25 BST
Prof Andrew Bersten says tests conducted at Leongatha hospital on Erin showed normal lactate levels and normal urea levels. He says Erin’s creatinine was at the upper end of the reference level.

Erin was admitted to Monash medical centre and discharged on 1 August, crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers says.

Bersten says notes from Erin’s ambulance transfer show she was “stable” during this trip.

He says medical testing of Erin at Monash medical notes showed slightly high blood pressure while her other vital signs were normal.

Rogers asks Bersten to confirm then Erin was cleared of death cap mushroom poisoning while at Monash medical centre. He agrees.

Rogers asks Bersten about a fecal test performed on Erin while at Monash medical centre, which can examine for a variety of bacteria pathogens, which can cause gastroenteritis.

Under questioning by Rogers, he agrees that no pathogens were detected in this test.

Erin Patterson murder trial live: expert who examined lunch sample twice tells court it did not contain death cap mushrooms

Patterson, 50, faces three charges of murder and one charge of attempted murder relating to a beef wellington lunch she served at her house in Leongatha. Follow live updates

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Why was Erin posting about dehydrating mushrooms in a True Crime FB group?

March to May

Erin allegedly starts posting about dehydrating mushrooms in a true crime Facebook group, detailing how she put powdered mushrooms into different foods.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

 

[katydid23]

HOPEFULLY, tomorrow they will talk to the forensics team that tested the dehydrator for toxins. I think they really need that now. IMO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

HOPEFULLY, tomorrow they will talk to the forensics team that tested the dehydrator for toxins. I think they really need that now. IMO

Yes, they need to stop rambling on about other toxic mushrooms and move forward.

 

[drsleuth]

1m ago

Defence begins questioning of Professor Bersten​

By Judd Boaz​

We're back from break, with Colin Mandy SC up to cross-examine Professor Bersten.

He asks about the medical records of Erin Patterson provided to Professor Bersten for his analysis.

"You never assessed Erin Patterson yourself?" Mr Mandy says.

"No, I did not," Professor Bersten replies.

Mr Mandy then focuses on the haemoglobin levels recorded on tests of Erin Patterson's blood.

He says her haemoglobin levels fluctuated during the course of the day, and then cites medical records from 2013 and 2014 showing Erin Patterson's haemoglobin levels were lower.

Mr Mandy says a 2015 reading was elevated when Ms Patterson was suffering from a gastro illness.

Professor Bersten has not seen these records and the defence promises to provide them to him.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I heard something somewhere recently that she bought the actual beef and mushrooms on the Friday night? So it is possible she hadn't put them together yet, but I still think she thought her guilt trip on Simon would work and he would show up.

In any case, very easy to flush an extra pastie down the toilet after the lunch.

Regardless of when the ingredients were bought, to me, beef wellington/pies/pasties are the sort of thing you'd construct on the day of the meal. If I were cooking it, I may make a mushroom paste the evening prior, and maybe marinade the meat if that's a component of the recipe. Regardless of whether homemade pastry was used, or frozen pre-packaged pastry, you'd imagine the pastries would be filled and sealed just prior to the meal being cooked and served, and not the day or night before. I certainly wouldn't cook them the day before, they are not the type of meal that reheats well. Pastry tends to dry out once exposed to the air and making them the day prior, even if you didn't cook them, would ruin what has been self described as "a special meal".

 

[drsleuth]

1m ago

Erin's potassium levels analysed by defence​

By Judd Boaz​

Professor Bersten says he agrees the trend must be focused on, but notes the tests may have also been done on different machines.

Mr Mandy then moves onto Erin's potassium levels, which were low and consequently supplemented by medical staff with IV fluids.

By the morning of her discharge from hospital, her potassium levels had risen back within normal ranges.

Professor Bersten says the reference ranges of potassium levels depend on the nature of how samples were taken, but agrees the levels were low and returned to an "acceptable" reference range.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

5m ago15.43 AEST
Asked by crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC about Erin’s illness, Prof Andrew Bersten replies:

I thought there was evidence she had a diarrhoeal illness.

He says this was consistent with a “mild level of dehydration” and slightly elevated levels of haemoglobin and fibrinogen

Bersten says there was “no biochemical evidence” of a liver injury.

3m ago06.45 BST
Erin’s defence lawyer, Colin Mandy SC, is now cross-examining Prof Andrew Bersten.

He asks Bersten about Erin’s medical records from 31 July to 1 August 2023 he had access to in making his opinion. Bersten agrees he never assessed Erin.

Mandy asks about a point-of-care machine result for Erin on 31 July at Leongatha hospital which showed her hemoglobin was 167.

Mandy says later Erin’s haemoglobin value dropped to 152 and then 158.

“Three values which would be elevated for a woman,” Mandy says.

“Yes,” says Berstern.

Mandy says medical records provided to Bersten between 2013-2014 which showed lower haemoglobin levels and a reading in 2015 when Erin had a gastrointestinal illness.

Bersten says he has not been provided these records. Mandy says the defence will provide them.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Give me the actual number please! ( for potassium )

 

[drsleuth]

Just now

Defence sums up Erin Patterson's symptoms​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy groups together Erin's symptoms, including her reports of diarrhoea, abdominal pain, low potassium and high haemoglobin.

Professor Bersten says taken altogether, they formed the basis of his conclusion that Erin Patterson was dehydrated and suffered from a diarrhoeal illness.

Mr Mandy needs to show Professor Bersten some of Erin's previous medical records, so we're out for another five minute break.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Why was Erin posting about dehydrating mushrooms in a True Crime FB group?

March to May

Erin allegedly starts posting about dehydrating mushrooms in a true crime Facebook group, detailing how she put powdered mushrooms into different foods.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

She has in interest in true crime and has been involved in several related online groups for a while. I believe the original group closed, a smaller number of members started another group, then a handful started a smaller group. It became not just about true crime, as the members had become more like friends, so assorted topics were talked about. Family, kids, recipes, current affairs etc - the usual stuff a group of friends may chat about along with the true crime aspect.

 

[Detechtive]

Just now

Defence sums up Erin Patterson's symptoms​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy groups together Erin's symptoms, including her reports of diarrhoea, abdominal pain, low potassium and high haemoglobin.

Professor Bersten says taken altogether, they formed the basis of his conclusion that Erin Patterson was dehydrated and suffered from a diarrhoeal illness.

Mr Mandy needs to show Professor Bersten some of Erin's previous medical records, so we're out for another five minute break.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Could those Symptoms be consistent with laxative use, I wonder?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

She has in interest in true crime and has been involved in several related online groups for a while. I believe the original group closed, a smaller number of members started another group, then a handful started a smaller group. It became not just about true crime, as the members had become more like friends, so assorted topics were talked about. Family, kids, recipes, current affairs etc - the usual stuff a group of friends may chat about along with the true crime aspect.

Yes, I was aware of that, I just wondered if anything in particular led to the conversation about dehydrating mushrooms? She was also in FB mushroom foraging groups as well.

 

[SouthAussie]

Professor Bersten says taken altogether, they formed the basis of his conclusion that Erin Patterson was dehydrated and suffered from a diarrhoeal illness.

So, maybe too many laxatives?

 

[SouthAussie]

"low blood potassium levels ..... often caused by an excessive loss of potassium in your digestive tract due to vomiting, diarrhea or laxative use."

Low Potassium Level Causes (Hypokalemia)

Hypokalemia is when the amount of potassium in your blood is too low.

my.clevelandclinic.org

"Other factors that can lead to high hemoglobin count include ...... dehydration "

High Hemoglobin Count: Causes, Testing & Treatment

High hemoglobin count occurs when you have an unusually high amount of a blood protein called hemoglobin. This can lead to dizziness, fatigue and other symptoms.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.esa.act.gov.au/sites/default/files/wp-content/uploads/12-NORMAL-BLOOD-VALUES-ADULT-left-justified.pdf

Erin's Hb ( Haemoglobin ) was initially 167 ( normal 120-167 ) slightly elevated ( this was probably the POCT IMO )

Than was 152 than 152 and then 158 ( in normal range )

As the doc said there is a difference between POCT ( point of care testing ) & official lab results.

Big nothing burger! IMO

 

[Detechtive]

So, maybe too many laxatives?

I think laxatives work by sucking the water from your body and liquifying the solids in your bowel, which would probably cause dehydration and electrolyte depletion even with normal use. I’m no medical expert however…

 

[drsleuth]

So, maybe too many laxatives?

Possible IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Whether her readings were from overuse of laxatives, or from some other cause of diarrhea (lots of dried fruits, nerves, whatever) .... none of those readings indicate even a little bit of Death Cap poisoning.

I hope the jury is paying attention.

imo

 

[drsleuth]

Just now

Prosecution re-examine medical expert​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy confirms Erin's lower haemoglobin levels earlier in her life, and finishes his questioning.

The prosecution brings the line of questioning back to Erin's low potassium.

Professor Bersten says there are many reasons as to why a person would have low potassium.

He tells the court that stress and certain medications can also shift potassium levels in the body.

Dr Rogers then asks about Erin's high haemoglobin levels.

Professor Bersten says it could be due to dehydration or poor kidney function.

She then asks whether Erin Patterson's symptoms could point to a more serious illness.

"Are those things consistent with a severe illness?" Dr Rogers asks.

"They could be, yes," Professor Bersten says.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Baby baby Jane]

So the defense strategy is to allege that Erin Patterson made an honest mistake, that she was foraging for mushrooms and accidentally mistook poisonous death cap mushrooms for edible ones.

Of course, that doesn't explain why she was the only person at the lunch who didn't get sick. I'm curious how the defense will explain that one.

if it were me … I’d say:

I hadn’t made enough of the duxelles mushroom paste. The mushrooms reduced so much during sauté that there was barely enough for 3 BW, it would not stretch to 4.

I made 3 BW with the just enough duxelles mushroom paste, the hastily made one without duxelles or with a new batch. I reserved that inferior DW for myself as I felt it wouldn’t be my best, and didn’t want to disappoint my guests.