Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[drsleuth]

1m ago

Supermarket mushroom poisoning highly unlikely​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy reiterates that the supply chains of supermarkets were regulated and that due to their total use of cultivated mushrooms, poisoning was highly unlikely.

Dr Truong says it is also highly unlikely for poisonings to occur even with mushrooms sold in small, independent shops.

"The information that was available to you, there wasn't a record of people becoming ill because of mushrooms sold in shops?" Mr Mandy asks.

"Correct," Dr Truong says.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I hope we don't just hear about mushrooms all day..............

To be fair, the mushrooms are pivotal to the case. I'd expect them to be discussed at length.

 

[drsleuth]

Dehydrated death cap mushrooms smell ‘very unpleasant’, expert says​

During their final cross examination of mycologist Thomas May, the defence counsel asked May to reexamine a photo of mushrooms he was asked to identify during his evidence in chief.

The photo featured brown mushrooms placed on a metal rack, sitting on top of scales.

Asked to identify the mushrooms again, May explained they showed “high features” of death cap mushrooms, but he was unable to see all aspects of the mushrooms (such as their stems) to increase the accuracy of his identification.

The defence asked whether the mushrooms may have been a different species of mushrooms, other than death caps, and May indicated they could be.

May was then re-examinated by senior crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers.

Rogers asked May what death cap mushrooms smell like.

May told the court death cap mushrooms do not have an offensive smell, and could actually have a ‘sweet’ aroma.

Rogers: “How about when they are dehydrated?”

May: “(When they are dehydrated) I find the smell to be very unpleasant.”

Patterson’s hospital tests indicate she did have diarrhoea, expert says

Erin Patterson is accused of killing three people with poisonous death cap mushrooms.

7news.com.au

 

[drsleuth]

19 minutes ago

Drying deaths smell 'very unpleasant': Expert​

Dr May was shown a photo of slices of mushrooms, with a yellow tinge, laid out on a tray on top of a set of kitchen scales.
A similar photo was shown to Dr May on Tuesday during his evidence-in-chief.
Ms Stafford asked: “Based on what you can see, you can’t exclude the possibility that these are death cap mushrooms?”
Dr May replied: “I cannot exclude the possibility … I can’t say with any degree of certainty that they’re not death cap mushrooms.”
But the court heard he “equally” cannot exclude the possibility they were a different species.
Under re-examination by Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC, Dr May said he had dried death cap mushrooms on a number of occasions.
He said he finds the smell “very unpleasant”.
After almost a day on the stand, Dr May has completed his evidence.

9 minutes ago
Highlight

'Almost impossible' death caps came from a shop: Expert​

Dr Camille Truong, another mycologist or fungi specialist, is now giving evidence.
She was working as the on-call mycologist for the Victorian Poisons Information Centre on July 31, two days after the lunch.
The court heard she was sent a photo of the leftovers of the beef wellington, which had been fished out of a bin at Erin’s home by a police officer.
She told the court she was sent the photo by Dr Laura Muldoon from Monash Health, who informed her four patients had presented with symptoms of mushroom poisoning.
Dr Truong said she told Dr Muldoon she would not be able to identify the mushrooms from the photo because they were finely chopped up.
“I did indicate to (Dr Muldoon) that if the mushrooms were coming from a shop or supermarket, it was extremely unlikely or almost impossible to be death cap mushrooms,” she said, noting they could not be cultivated and only grow in the wild.
She said she also told Dr Muldoon there were “absolutely no sightings of death cap mushrooms” in Victoria over the past couple of months.
“(It was) highly unlikely to be a case of death cap poisoning,” she told the court.
Dr Truong said Dr Muldoon told her she would send the leftovers to her for examination.
She told the court it was “extremely rare” for this to occur.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-updates-from-morwell-court/live-coverage/2b9110af7759d006a800bf76bb848d28?amp

 

[drsleuth]

4m ago

Defence and prosecution wrap up with Dr Truong​

By Judd Boaz​

We're back to the phone call Dr Truong had with a doctor following her examination.

Mr Mandy asks about a conversation that took place between Dr Truong and doctors on August 1.

She disputes this, and says she does not remember the day.

Mr Mandy says notes obtained from the doctor during the call stated the possiblity of ghost or oyster mushrooms in the dish.

Dr Truong disputes this, and says they were simply discussing mushrooms that "could" theoretically be in a dish.

The defence has no further questions, and the prosecution also finishes.

Court breaks for lunch.

Expert says Erin Patterson's medical files suggest she was ill — as it happened

Erin Patterson is on trial charged with the murders of three relatives who died after eating a meal she prepared which contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Ian Wilkinson said both he and Heather "ate the entire meal", while Don ate his meal along with half of the beef wellington that Gail did not finish.

So there would only be half of what's left of Gail's lunch that Erin got rid of, and that was most likely disposed of in another way, ahead of, before the leftovers that Erin and the kids had, which are the leftovers that were examined

 

[katydid23]

now03.19 BST
Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May about incidents involving death cap mushroom poisoning.

She points to a poisoning that was a subject of a Victorian coroner’s report from May 2024.

Stafford says a deceased woman had picked mushrooms from her front garden in April 2024. She later used them in a dish she and her son consumed.

The deceased found more mushrooms in her garden the following month. She prepared the same dish with the mushrooms, the court hears.

Early the next day, the woman’s son heard her getting up to use the bathroom. He then checked on his mother who said she had been vomiting. Her son began to feel unwell the same day.

The woman died from death cap mushroom poisoning while her son recovered, the court hears.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Using THESE examples do not help her defense imo. These cases where the person who picked and cooked with the mushrooms also died from eating them.

Nothing like Erin's case, IMO.

 

[Ellery84]

Ian Wilkinson said both he and Heather "ate the entire meal", while Don ate his meal along with half of the beef wellington that Gail did not finish.

So there would only be half of what's left of Gail's lunch that Erin got rid of, and that was most likely disposed of in another way, ahead of, before the leftovers that Erin and the kids had, which are the leftovers that were examined

Thanks, Scooby. Right you are.

 

[drsleuth]

25m ago13.07 AEST

Expert did not find death cap mushrooms in sample, court hears​

Dr Camille Truong was sent a package containing leftovers of the beef wellington meal on 1 August - three days after the lethal lunch at Erin Patterson’s home.

It was a large ziplock bag containing the food item


You could see the item inside.

She put on gloves and sterilised tweezers used a microscope, the court hears.

I saw it was a food item that contained mushrooms inside


I picked out the pieces of mushrooms.

She says she did not find any death cap mushroom pieces.

She then returned the remnants to the bag and placed it in her fridge.

The next day she took the leftovers to the lab at the Royal Botanic Gardens.

“I pulled out all the little pieces of mushrooms on a tray... I also took photographs of the spores I was observing.”

Asked by prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC if she found any death cap mushrooms in the item, she says “no I didn’t”.

Truong says the only mushrooms she found were “field mushrooms” which can be found in supermarkets.

8m ago04.25 BST
Patterson’s lawyer, Colin Mandy SC, is cross-examining Dr Camille Truong

She confirms she made the same conclusion that the samples did not contain death cap mushrooms after examining the leftovers of two occasions.

Mandy says she had a call with doctors on 1 August 2023 where Truong discussed that the leftovers could contained ghost or oysters mushrooms.

Truong says she did not tell the doctors the samples definitely contained ghost or oyster mushrooms.

8m ago13.25 AEST

No records showing people getting sick from store-bought mushrooms​

Barrister Colin Mandy SC says she also told the doctors that further options to test them would include DNA testing of samples - but that this would be difficult.

Truong says the difficulty is due to samples potentially being from mixed sources of mushrooms.

Mandy turns to the possibility of mushroom poisoning from supermarket supply chains. Truong agrees that it is highly unlikely due to their use of cultivated mushrooms.

Truong says it is also highly unlikely for poisonings with mushrooms sold in smaller, independent shops.

“The information that was available to you, there wasn’t a record of people becoming ill because of mushrooms sold in shops?” Mandy asks.

“Correct,” Truong replies.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[drsleuth]

7 minutes ago
Highlight

No death caps found in leftovers seized from Erin's bin​

The court heard the leftovers had arrived at the reception of her office after Dr Truong had left for the day, so she had them sent to her home.
She described them arriving in two clear ziplock bags.
She said she cleaned a bench in her home and pulled out a small tray and tweezers.
“I have a small microscope … in my house,” she said.
“I used tweezers to pick out the little pieces of mushrooms.”
When asked by Dr Rogers whether she found any death cap mushroom pieces, Dr Truong replied: “I didn’t.”
She said she put all the pieces back in the bag and popped the bag in her fridge.
The court heard she took the leftovers to her office on August 2 and conducted another examination under a microscope.
The court heard she identified field mushrooms, which are commonly found at supermarkets.
“It was the only mushroom that I found in this food item,” Dr Truong said.
The trial will resume at 2.15pm.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-updates-from-morwell-court/live-coverage/2b9110af7759d006a800bf76bb848d28?amp

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Ian Wilkinson said both he and Heather "ate the entire meal", while Don ate his meal along with half of the beef wellington that Gail did not finish.

So there would only be half of what's left of Gail's lunch that Erin got rid of, and that was most likely disposed of in another way, ahead of, before the leftovers that Erin and the kids had, which are the leftovers that were examined

No, there were no leftovers from the 4 guests I believe, as they were single serves. My belief is that Heather and Ian ate their entire serve of beef wellington, Gail ate half of hers, and Don ate his and the other half of Gail's. Erin ate a serve I imagine, and there were leftover single serves that were eaten by the dog and the 2 Patterson children, after having the mushroom paste scraped off. There were also leftovers that ended up in the bin.

 

[whiskia]

Did Don eat Gail's whole half or half of it?? If he ate the whole half there would not have been any 'tainted' leftovers unless there was a spare just in case Simon rocked up after all...?

 

[whiskia]

Also wrt the dried powdered mushrooms in the kids' brownies, we are assuming that Erin actually did this and didn't just set up a defence whereby she says she had bought the dehydrator for more than its sinister single use and also perhaps that she had been using it regularly since May to trick her kids and why would she have been doing that if she knowingly had used it for drying deathcaps beforehand??

 

[L_B]

Whilst I think the tested "leftovers" were non-contaminated in the first place, just say there was the dehydrated death cap powder in these leftovers, would the powder even be detectable under the microscope, I imagine it would have dissolved in the liquid of the duxelle?! Visually she has only seen the chunks of the fresh mushroom...

 

[BreakingNews]

The thing is that the defense don’t actually have to explain anything. All they need to do is create enough reasonable doubt in the jurors minds. If just one juror thinks it’s possible she accidentally foraged death caps, for example, that could result in a not guilty verdict. It’s up to the prosecution to “explain” (prove) their case.

As an aside, I very much doubt we will see EP take the stand to give evidence, but time will tell.

It's rare the someone accused of murder takes the stand. Gerard Baden Clay was an exception, going against his legal teams advice. But he just couldn't help himself!

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Has there been any talk or speculation of exactly why Erin chose to break with tradition and do her own style of beef wellington, essentially turning them into single serve pasties? It seems she put a lot or forethought into the dish, asking questions of her fellow sleuths online, sourcing quality meat, foraging in the earth/foraging in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne for exotic mushrooms etc.

Why even call it beef wellington if they were indeed pasties? Calling it one thing then changing it's composition would potentially raise questions like this one I'm asking now. A beef wellington is designed to be one piece, cut into slices. Butchering it into individually filled parcels begs the question of why? Nobody would second guess if you said you were serving "sirloin of beef encased in a flaky, buttery puff pastry, surrounded by a medley of exotic mushrooms" - if you're fancy - or "beef and mushroom pasties" if you're not.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Did Don eat Gail's whole half or half of it?? If he ate the whole half there would not have been any 'tainted' leftovers unless there was a spare just in case Simon rocked up after all...?

Ian Wilkinson said both he and Heather "ate the entire meal", while Don ate his meal along with half of the beef wellington that Gail did not finish.

 

[katydid23]

Am I remembering correctly that the prosecution said there were traces of Death Caps found on the dehydrator ?

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Also wrt the dried powdered mushrooms in the kids' brownies, we are assuming that Erin actually did this and didn't just set up a defence whereby she says she had bought the dehydrator for more than its sinister single use and also perhaps that she had been using it regularly since May to trick her kids and why would she have been doing that if she knowingly had used it for drying deathcaps beforehand??

I don't think we're just assuming that Erin dried mushrooms and put them in brownies for her kids. She wrote this in one of the Facebook groups or group chats. They way she wrote it she almost sounded giddy that it worked and her kids were clueless.

 

[whiskia]

Has there been any talk or speculation of exactly why Erin chose to break with tradition and do her own style of beef wellington, essentially turning them into single serve pasties? It seems she put a lot or forethought into the dish, asking questions of her fellow sleuths online, sourcing quality meat, foraging in the earth/foraging in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne for exotic mushrooms etc.

Why even call it beef wellington if they were indeed pasties? Calling it one thing then changing it's composition would potentially raise questions like this one I'm asking now. A beef wellington is designed to be one piece, cut into slices. Butchering it into individually filled parcels begs the question of why? Nobody would second guess if you said you were serving "sirloin of beef encased in a flaky, buttery puff pastry, surrounded by a medley of exotic mushrooms" - if you're fancy - or "beef and mushroom pasties" if you're not.

In Qld you can buy indiv BW from some Butchers.