GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[JBowie]

Mmm sure that’s a possibility but why would someone buy a car from the sticks in Victoria to pay hefty transport costs interstate? I only see people do that with luxury cars.

Maybe it was sent to the wreckers?

Many commercial operators in NSW would register their fleet in VIC, presumably because it's cheaper and they don't need annual inspection.

However, NSW has now clamped down on that sort of thing:

In New South Wales (NSW), your vehicle must be registered in NSW if it is kept or garaged in NSW for more than three months, regardless of where it was previously registered. If you've moved to NSW and intend to stay, you need to transfer your vehicle's registration to NSW.

 

[Detechtive]

Many commercial operators in NSW would register their fleet in VIC, presumably because it's cheaper and they don't need annual inspection.

However, NSW has now clamped down on that sort of thing:

In New South Wales (NSW), your vehicle must be registered in NSW if it is kept or garaged in NSW for more than three months, regardless of where it was previously registered. If you've moved to NSW and intend to stay, you need to transfer your vehicle's registration to NSW.

Do companies buy 3+ year old cars for their fleet? Bright red ones?

 

[JBowie]

Do companies buy 3+ year old cars for their fleet? Bright red ones?

No, many (most?) fleets are bought on a finance lease. Fleet vehicles are new and usually turned over every 2 years or so.

 

[JBowie]

Given that 5 of the 6 disclosed tip trips were in the 2018 model Holden, I'm thinking that she used that vehicle as her regular dumping car and drove the MG otherwise.

The only disclosed MG tip trip was in August 2023, about a month after initial rego of the MG, even though the Holden was still registered.

 

[JBowie]

So according to line 1 (4 October) she's taken a 240 litre bin there in the same vehicle. Not sure how she managed that in that small car. Ordinarily you'd use a trailer. Maybe lay it across the back seat.

240L Wheelie Bin-red lid bin-garbage-sulo-sydney-cheap

240L Wheelie bin – RED/YELLOW/BLUE/LIME GREEN LID with Dark Green Body The 240 litre wheelie bin is one of the largest wheelie bins available for council rubbish collection. Australian made Sulo branded bin. It is commonly used for residential apartments, businesses and trade waste. Like all...

www.wheeliebinco.com.au

OK, reflecting on the rego dates, the vehicle at the tip on 4 October was a 2018 Holden wagon, therefore a 240 litre wheelie bin could be put into the boot (US = trunk), especially if the back seat was lowered making the boot space larger.

https://babydrive.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/HOLDEN_COMMODORE_TOURER_34-768x512.jpg

 

[Penny68]

I am wondering how Erin could have even lifted an empty 240 litre wheelie bin into the boot. Of course she wouldn't have taken it empty, so even half full would have needed a lot of effort.

I have 3 at home for different contents, but no way could I have lifted one. It's hard enough for me to push one when even half full. (Okay I am only 4ft 11 in my socks).

 

[Detechtive]

I am wondering how Erin could have even lifted an empty 240 litre wheelie bin into the boot. Of course she wouldn't have taken it empty, so even half full would have needed a lot of effort.

I have 3 at home for different contents, but no way could I have lifted one. It's hard enough for me to push one when even half full. (Okay I am only 4ft 11 in my socks).

If it was half full she wouldn’t have needed to take it to the tip.

Her rubbish habits are all very strange, particularly because she’s so very frugal and doesn’t buy much stuff expect books and lego.

 

[JBowie]

I am wondering how Erin could have even lifted an empty 240 litre wheelie bin into the boot. Of course she wouldn't have taken it empty, so even half full would have needed a lot of effort.

I have 3 at home for different contents, but no way could I have lifted one. It's hard enough for me to push one when even half full. (Okay I am only 4ft 11 in my socks).

I guess it depends on what's in it and the resulting weight. If you wheel the bin to the wagon's tail gate, you can upend it into the boot using the tail gate as a lever and slide it in.

Where I live the garbos (yes another 'o' word) refuse to take a 240 litre bin that weighs more than 70kg. They stick a label on the top saying "overweight".

 

[Penny68]

I wasn't aware of a tail gate, so yes that would be easier then to load it in.

 

[Ellery84]

If it was half full she wouldn’t have needed to take it to the tip.

Her rubbish habits are all very strange, particularly because she’s so very frugal and doesn’t buy much stuff expect books and lego.

i don’t know, but I do know a lot of autistic kids who are obsessed and transfixed with rubbish and rubbish trucks.

It might be that she was very into the idea of waste disposal. Possibly fixated on the concept or the tip itself.

IMO

 

[JBowie]

A pretty good recap here on A Current Affair:

(a motza: A large sum of money, a windfall.)

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Over the past couple of days, I've been thinking about this idea that EP was really intelligent, and how this has been used to defend the idea that she wouldn't have planned something so badly. Regardless of whether people think she is innocent or guilty, almost all essentially agree that Erin acted out of panic in the days following the lunch.

Innocent - Erin's ill-thought out actions were done in a panic and a result of trying to cover up her culpability for their deaths.

Guilty - Erin's ill-thought out actions were done in a panic as a result of not suspecting they would identify the Death Caps and therefore not expecting she would be caught.

Whilst there was clearly some degree of panic, I'm going to argue that rather than being a panicked response, many of EP's actions were maybe a reflection that she wasn't as thorough or dare I say clever as people think she was.

Take the most obvious example: the disposing of the dehydrator at the tip. Obviously, this was a very stressful time but it wasn't a decision made in absolute panic. She spent the previous day presumably sitting around in hospital and obviously realised at this point that she needed to cover her tracks. However, despite this her plan for covering up was really poor. She forgot that she still had the manual and didn't seem to consider that it would be obviously traceable from the tip. Even if she was innocent, this is a real rookie mistake to make. There were much better ways of getting rid of it even in a panic.

Then you have the search at the house, and the police interview. These happened almost a week after the meal. Again, regardless of guilt this must have been stressful, but this is a long time to consider how she could best get herself out of the mess that she was in. The result was an utter mess: she decided literally at the last minute to get rid of her main phone. She factory reset one of her phones multiple times. You'd think she would have been aware of how incriminating this would look and how easy it would have been to identify and have thought of a better solution.

She also had adequate time to get her story straight before the second interview. The most obvious way to make her situation better would have been to admit to foraging very early on. You could argue that the Woolworths and Asian grocer story was a panicked answer at her first police interview, but she sat there for a whole week and decided to stick with it clearly thinking it was her best bet. In reality, it was a terrible answer at that time and one that again massively incriminated her when she didn't admit to foraging until 2 years later.

Maybe she wasn't as clever as everybody thinks, or at the very least clever in a different non-common sensical way.

 

[sunspun]

Like ‘Grandma RIP’?

Well imo, no, not that really. I feel certain it was the son who wrote that, in reference to his maternal grandmother, Erin's mother, who I believe had died shortly before that was written on the wall. Maybe see if you can find my post about the wall from a previous thread where I included probable dates and order of appearance and who wrote what and things like that. I kinda got a little obsessed with it, I think, so my description was... exhaustive, might be the word!

 

[sunspun]

Would that relate to Erin's mother?

That's what I surmised.

 

[sunspun]

Well imo, no, not that really. I feel certain it was the son who wrote that, in reference to his maternal grandmother, Erin's mother, who I believe had died shortly before that was written on the wall. Maybe see if you can find my post about the wall from a previous thread where I included probable dates and order of appearance and who wrote what and things like that. I kinda got a little obsessed with it, I think, so my description was... exhaustive, might be the word!

Post in thread 'Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*' Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

I'm trying to link to my post about that wall in an earlier thread here, but I don't know if this is how it's done or not! I'll post this and see what happened...

 

[AMJR]

Over the past couple of days, I've been thinking about this idea that EP was really intelligent, and how this has been used to defend the idea that she wouldn't have planned something so badly. Regardless of whether people think she is innocent or guilty, almost all essentially agree that Erin acted out of panic in the days following the lunch.

Innocent - Erin's ill-thought out actions were done in a panic and a result of trying to cover up her culpability for their deaths.

Guilty - Erin's ill-thought out actions were done in a panic as a result of not suspecting they would identify the Death Caps and therefore not expecting she would be caught.

Whilst there was clearly some degree of panic, I'm going to argue that rather than being a panicked response, many of EP's actions were maybe a reflection that she wasn't as thorough or dare I say clever as people think she was.

Take the most obvious example: the disposing of the dehydrator at the tip. Obviously, this was a very stressful time but it wasn't a decision made in absolute panic. She spent the previous day presumably sitting around in hospital and obviously realised at this point that she needed to cover her tracks. However, despite this her plan for covering up was really poor. She forgot that she still had the manual and didn't seem to consider that it would be obviously traceable from the tip. Even if she was innocent, this is a real rookie mistake to make. There were much better ways of getting rid of it even in a panic.

Then you have the search at the house, and the police interview. These happened almost a week after the meal. Again, regardless of guilt this must have been stressful, but this is a long time to consider how she could best get herself out of the mess that she was in. The result was an utter mess: she decided literally at the last minute to get rid of her main phone. She factory reset one of her phones multiple times. You'd think she would have been aware of how incriminating this would look and how easy it would have been to identify and have thought of a better solution.

She also had adequate time to get her story straight before the second interview. The most obvious way to make her situation better would have been to admit to foraging very early on. You could argue that the Woolworths and Asian grocer story was a panicked answer at her first police interview, but she sat there for a whole week and decided to stick with it clearly thinking it was her best bet. In reality, it was a terrible answer at that time and one that again massively incriminated her when she didn't admit to foraging until 2 years later.

Maybe she wasn't as clever as everybody thinks, or at the very least clever in a different non-common sensical way.

All good points. Telling obviously outlandish lies on the stand that almost everyone can see through immediately (gastric band surgery, roadside poo, cake) doesn’t strike me as evidence of intelligence either. Some people are pretty good at appearing intelligent in one sphere of life and being as dumb as rocks like the rest of us in all other spheres. I’ve worked a lot in universities with academics over 30 years, and this is pretty commonly observed among even highly educated people.

 

[loreet]

I have no doubt Mr Mandy will come up with something to justify appeal, given he was skilled enough to keep some evidence out and managed to construct a defence out of very little.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if he recommends she work with someone else through any appeal process.

Generally it is a good idea to work with a different attorney for appeals so any deficiencies in your original defense and defense attorneys can be used as grounds for appeal. Though in EP’s case, I thought Mandy was pretty amazing and rolled with all her lies. So I am doubtful a different attorney for her appeals will find much fault with his work on her case.

 

[loreet]

One of the hallmarks of a narcissist. All their problems are caused by someone else and they project their own behaviour onto those around them. Impossible to live with.

Sorry I’m just catching up so likely someone has said this before but I believe Simon was extremely forgiving and kind when he hypothesized that Erin is on the autism spectrum. She seems much more narcissistic to me. Sociopathic really. They — sociopaths/psychopaths — can have an amazing talent for ‘reading’ people and mimicking genuine human reactions such as empathy and caring. Because they have been watching these reactions dispassionately in others for many years.

MOO based on knowing both persons on the spectrum and true psychopaths. I’ve been fooled personally by ‘fake/acted’ empathy. I’m so Sorry for Simon and the family of all of EP’s victims. He may be carrying a lot of (undeserved) guilt for not seeing her evil tendencies and not calling them out to his family sooner.

 

[IBR]

RSBM

This is the way Erin rolls, IMO. Her son's recollection supported her narrative of being sick, so it seems counter-intuitive for her to disagree with him. But, I think this was a calculated strategy of hers to sow the seeds for the jury that her son had an unreliable memory of that morning - all because he said he came down stairs and noticed her drinking coffee. He must have been confusing that morning with another morning, he was already down on the couch when I came down, I remember checking his room when I got up. As if she would remember those details two years later, which weren't anything extraordinary.

We see this kind of planning she applies in thinking no-one would believe she would deliberately poison to death a family group of four or five, and expect to get away with it. Hence they'll believe it was accident or misadventure. She plans for how to make people think, as far as she can control it.

My opinion

I’m only just catching up, so maybe this has been said already.
I was thinking that maybe she constructed the story of her son having a sore tummy, to support the idea that she got slightly sick as well after having eaten the leftovers. In her mind, since she said she had scraped off the shrooms, her son could have gotten slightly sick as well from eating leftovers. If I remember correctly, it had been claimed the son ate more of the leftovers than her daughter, so It could support Erin‘s claim that she got sick as well and that everyone, except of her daughter had symptoms.

 

[IBR]

The other thing that is remarkable is that all of her excuses were retrofitted to the evidence. I was looking for one example where she acted in a way that supported her story before information was revealed to her, but I didn't see any.

She claims she thought she had gastro illness but didn't call her more vulnerable lunch guests to warn them that evening, and ask if they were sick too, or call and ask Simon to keep an eye on them. Because she wasn't really sick and being sick wasn't part of her original plan.

She served the same food to her children that she thought may have made her sick. Because Erin being sick wasn't part of her original narrative, if they'd died and not revealed they ate specially prepared portions, and not shared a single large wellington.

She didn't tell anyone about the dried wild mushrooms until she heard they were treating the patients for death cap poisoning. Because she planned to say they were only button mushrooms from Woollies. She hid the dehydrator for the same reason.

She admitted foraging at trial and not before, when she knew the grocer story was not credible and they'd found traces to prove she'd dried the death caps in her own kitchen. There would have been no reason to dry already dried mushrooms from a store.

If she'd got ahead and said one of these things before she found out what police and doctors were doing I might have given her a teeny bit more benefit of the doubt.

MOO

And didn’t she also claim fairly late that the mushrooms from the Asian grocer (but conveniently, she doesn’t remember which Asian grocer exactly she got them from) were a bit rubbery, so she put them in her dehydrator to crisp them up? Didn’t she say that before she came up with the claim she might have foraged and accidentally put the foraged and dehydrated mushrooms in the same Tupperware as the mushrooms from the Asian grocer?