CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[cloudajo]

RB posted that JeM didn't go back to Bob's house the next day because Bob wasn't answering the phone, and then she posted that JeM didn't go back because he stayed home to watch their dogs.

I wonder exactly when and how the police questioned JeM. Was it initially just over the phone? Did JeM go to the police station or did the PPD drive out to his house to question him?

 

[believe09]

Going by the below:
· AH initially told police Bob probably left to get away from the family problems
· JuM said they suspected foul play
· The 3 daughters told police initially they suspected the hairdresser
· Loomis said police thought Bob left because he had gotten into an argument with another family member
· Someone told officers Bob might have regretted the decision to marry – cold feet
· Loomis said police explored the possibility of Bob getting cold feet after the wedding
· We don’t know what Bob’s SIL JeM told police
· We don’t know what the hairdresser told police

Mon, July 27 (Missing Persons Report)

Andrew continued and said that there had been fighting in the family recently and Robert was very frustrated over the situation. Andrew said his grandfather probably left to get away from the family problems

Tues, July 28 (ROTW)

JuM: We suspect foul play

The Week Bob Went Missing (snippets from OC Register and LA Times articles)

• Sgt. Scott Millsap, an investigations detective, said there have been underlying issues with the family, but declined to give any more information.
• Loomis said police initially thought Harrod left because he had gotten into an argument with another family member; they had hoped he would return when his wife came back to Placentia.
• "My personal sense was that if he did not return home by dark Wednesday night, we have a big problem," Loomis said. "We didn't ramp up a serious investigation in hopes he would come home yesterday. That was the break point."
  
• The three daughters told police initially they suspected Bob Harrod's barber – a woman who attended their mother's funeral in 2008 – of some connection with the disappearance.
• After Bob disappeared, someone -- police won't say who -- told officers he might have regretted the decision to marry. For three days police thought they were dealing with a case of cold feet.
• Police also explored the possibility of Harrod's getting cold feet after the wedding, Loomis said.

I spent a little time over the weekend looking at obstruction of justice laws in a criminal investigation-ones that apply to the state of CA.

Although I didnt see a mechanism for the state or PPD to demand compensation for resources spent on anything that deliberately mislead the investigation, there may be one.

What is sad about this to me-it would be likely that Bob's own money would be used for the compensation, just like Bob is paying for his own reward money. :banghead:

 

[believe09]

I have no doubt that JeM made at least an initial statement to PPD-it wasnt a criminal investigation. He had nothing to lose.

If we take into account the post on the community forum that details JeM as the focus of the investigation, we can reasonably believe that at least by that point the investigation had changed to a criminal one. JMVHO.

 

[Angelo]

From what daughter RB posted the hairdresser possibly told police she suspected the family. Interesting.

Daughter RB Aug. 12, 2009:

POI insinuating that family (actual family) is involved. Jeesh! POI doesn't really know family and only had D's chronic lies to base her opinion on.

Daughter RB Aug. 14, 2009:

POI statement that daughters are hiding D - I don't think so! We would so gladly return him home to F, instead of hiding him. Get real POI! He will have to face up to what he has done to Fontelle and make a decision whether he wants to stay married or not, whatever that decision might be, his daughters will have to accept it, period!

 

[Angelo]

Daughter RB Aug. 12, 2009

POI insinuating that family (actual family) is involved. Jeesh! POI doesn't really know family and only had D's chronic lies to base her opinion on.

The hairdresser must have some important information about the Harrod family dynamics, told to her by Mr. Harrod, to make RB label her father a chronic liar on a public forum.

 

[Angelo]

Daughter RB Aug. 14, 2009:

POI statement that daughters are hiding D - I don't think so! We would so gladly return him home to F, instead of hiding him. Get real POI! He will have to face up to what he has done to Fontelle and make a decision whether he wants to stay married or not, whatever that decision might be, his daughters will have to accept it, period!

So here we have a Harrod family member insinuating on a public forum that Mr. Harrod may have had "cold feet" and was voluntarily missing.

 

[zwiebel]

So here we have a Harrod family member insinuating on a public forum that Mr. Harrod may have had "cold feet" and was voluntarily missing.

I completely missed that, Angelo. Bang goes my theory that it wasn't RB.

Whenever something looks certain in this case, it's certain that it isn't.....

 

[zwiebel]

RB posted that JeM didn't go back to Bob's house the next day because Bob wasn't answering the phone, and then she posted that JeM didn't go back because he stayed home to watch their dogs.

I wonder exactly when and how the police questioned JeM. Was it initially just over the phone? Did JeM go to the police station or did the PPD drive out to his house to question him?

*
I very much doubt JeM went voluntarily to the police station on his own. He's too elusive for that. I suspect LE's first contact was a phone call, and after getting that info - especially if it was a version of JuM's first timeline which put JeM in the house at the time Bob disappeared, 'approx' - they would then have wanted to drive out and see him.

After that, I would think, JeM wouldn't have spoken to LE without his lawyer, and I'm guessing the lawyer would have advised him to say nothing at all, imo.

It must be a little nervewracking to be a lawyer for a client remaining silent, while three women closely associated with him are posting the most confounding stuff all over the internet.

 

[believe09]

I cant imagine why JeM would lawyer up with a MP case-the thing is by his own admission (at least if you take the reports and the posts at face value) he was the last person to see Bob.

It is an interesting thought that he made an initial statement maybe by phone and then didnt do any follow up interviews.

 

[believe09]

The hairdresser must have some important information about the Harrod family dynamics, told to her by Mr. Harrod, to make RB label her father a chronic liar on a public forum.

I think there has been a lot of energy put in to discrediting any one who might have relevant information concerning Bob and his relationship with his family.

BL
PE
CL
FH

The thing is, if these women knew more about their father than the contents of his home and his bank balance, I would think there would be a much clearer picture of Bob's last movements, appearance and consistency in their own statements.

This doesnt seem to be that difficult-when was he last seen, what was he last wearing, when did you last have contact with him, and what information can you give about his habits, physical issues and mental status.

:banghead:

All of this seems to be a moving target.

 

[Oriah]

Does anyone have the exact specific info on the last time Mr. Harrod traveled more than 100 miles out of town, before he disappeared? TIA if anyone knows...

 

[Cubby]

I think there has been a lot of energy put in to discrediting any one who might have relevant information concerning Bob and his relationship with his family.

BL
PE
CL
FH

The thing is, if these women knew more about their father than the contents of his home and his bank balance, I would think there would be a much clearer picture of Bob's last movements, appearance and consistency in their own statements.

This doesnt seem to be that difficult-when was he last seen, what was he last wearing, when did you last have contact with him, and what information can you give about his habits, physical issues and mental status.

:banghead:

All of this seems to be a moving target.

:goodpost:

 

[zwiebel]

In my opinion, some of the things posted about Bob have made the people posting them look utterly undignified.

It seems that the idea of Bob being presented as a generous, kind and loving man has incensed them so much they have been willing to post even the smallest detail, no matter how mean-spirited. I don't think most of it was even intended to hamper the search for him - seems like more of a visceral reaction.

The fortune he left them seems to have provoked a visceral reaction too - to gain, possess and cherish it, no matter what the cost. In my opinion, it's cost them all too much. There's no amount of money in the world that would make me swap places with any one of them.

Because it's nearly Christmas, perhaps one or more of them could put right these wrongs, and provide some useful information regarding Bob and his disappearance? What a nice gesture that would be, in the spirit of that event.

ETA: you're going to give yourself a headache doing that, believe09.

 

[believe09]

I swear this is the last time I will say this, but the first one to the DA is going to win for sure....on many different levels.

 

[Oriah]

I posted on the SAR thread, but thought I'd bump it up here as well- just in case it gets missed down in the basement.

Anyone know what JeM was last seen wearing the morning/afternoon Mr. Harrod disappeared? It's really important to pay attention to what an individual who last saw a missing person was wearing at the time- sometimes almost as important as knowing what the MP was last seen wearing!

Would the CL know this, does anyone think?

 

[zwiebel]

If I have to choose between the cleaner's memory and any of the bio family, my money's on the cleaner.

IMO, it was a hot day and JeM was supposed to be working. Over here he would have been in overalls, regardless. But I know the Germans can be unique in some ways and a lot of workmen elsewhere wouldn't bother. So it's got to be an old T-shirt and jeans, or cargopants, Jem was wearing. A natural choice for a work T-shirt is dark, but it's the white ones that get scruffy fastest and tend to go in the workwear cupboard first.

This is a pure guess - I haven't seen any info anywhere about what JeM was wearing, or even what he looks like. Yet.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have no doubt that JeM made at least an initial statement to PPD-it wasnt a criminal investigation. He had nothing to lose.

If we take into account the post on the community forum that details JeM as the focus of the investigation, we can reasonably believe that at least by that point the investigation had changed to a criminal one. JMVHO.

I disagree that JeM had nothing to lose. One LE strategy that is quite successful is to keep taking statements from the same witness(es) and looking for discrepancies. Making a statement to LE would pin JeM into a certain position, one that later events might prove untenable for him.

I agree that JeM probably did make a statement, though. For one thing, these people are obviously not the brightest bulbs on the string. For another, he's a middle class guy who would feel intense social pressure to talk to the police. He's saturated in the idea that police officers are his friends and want to help him. It would never occur to him that most LE are brighter than the average bear and see a lot more than they let on.

It probably never occurred to him that unless Bob showed up alive and healthy after Fontelle returned to California that the investigation would turn into a criminal investigation. He probably assumed that by acting cooperative, he could influence the investigation to go the way he wanted it to go (barber did it, cold feet, dementia or whatever).

 

[GrainneDhu]

I posted on the SAR thread, but thought I'd bump it up here as well- just in case it gets missed down in the basement.

Anyone know what JeM was last seen wearing the morning/afternoon Mr. Harrod disappeared? It's really important to pay attention to what an individual who last saw a missing person was wearing at the time- sometimes almost as important as knowing what the MP was last seen wearing!

Would the CL know this, does anyone think?

She was in the best position to know since there was clearly an overlap in the times when they were in the house together. It would depend, I suppose, on how good her memory is for details like that. Some people do and some don't. Plus, it would depend on how soon she was questioned (I'm hoping she was questioned).

There's always the chance that JeM was wearing one outfit at the time he last saw Bob and decided to change clothing before he ran into the CL at Bob's home.

 

[Oriah]

I posted on the SAR thread, but thought I'd bump it up here as well- just in case it gets missed down in the basement.

Anyone know what JeM was last seen wearing the morning/afternoon Mr. Harrod disappeared? It's really important to pay attention to what an individual who last saw a missing person was wearing at the time- sometimes almost as important as knowing what the MP was last seen wearing!

Would the CL know this, does anyone think?

I want to know if JeM (or anyone who saw Mr. Harrod that morning) changed clothes that day. And if so- where, and when? Where is the clothing that the people who last saw Mr. Harrod or were last in his residence, now?

You're right zwiebel! I probably focus on details too much!

 

[zwiebel]

But that's where you find the little devils hiding with their pitchfork full of lies, Oriah.

(am I mixing my metaphors there?)