CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[travelbug]

so Travelbug- what you know about the roads, dirt or paved, working out from the periphery of the landfill? Looking on a map, any of those grab your attention?

It would be a quick and easy drive up Rose to Valencia. The SE corner of those roads has been used to farm strawberries for decades. The other corners are primarily commercial use. The farm is active during the summer. The hills past the landfill are undeveloped and somewhat desolate by SoCal standards. Someone could quite easily be left in the hilly area SE of Carbon Canyon Ridge Rd. and not be discovered.

 

[sreshowtime]

34.513680, -117.572691
that skull in Phelan located around there...not sure what to think

 

[sreshowtime]

But were those roads, Carbon Ridge, Telephone Line, Telegraph Canyon, etc, accessible by vehicle off of Carbon Canyon Rd back in July '09
Lots of places, but access is issue a lot

 

[zwiebel]

34.513680, -117.572691
that skull in Phelan located around there...not sure what to think

No, me neither. But San Bernardino Coroner's office have got this one, and they are aware Bob is missing, for sure. I'll put the case numbers here so I don't lose them.

SB Coroner Case no: 70130891
Sheriff's case no: 071304339. Det Mike Flores.

Why does that detective's name sound familiar to me, I wonder?

The lady who discovered the remains was looking for her lost dog. I hope she found him. I don't like to think of anything or anybody being lost in the desert out there.

 

[zwiebel]

Ah, I think I know where I saw that name before. It's from here, a youtube that made quite an impression on me when I saw it a while back. Brave? Reckless? Very, very lucky? Or simply the Cajun spirit? Amazing video anyway.

I think it's a different Det Flores though, unless he's moved from New Orleans to San Bernardino.

http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/tag/det-michael-flores/

Ummm, just wanted to add I don't necessarily support the other content of that website, by the way. I was looking for something when I came across it.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I'm happy to see that people still care about Bob. I reread the script on the interviews and I noticed that it said that Bob owns several properties. It wasn't in the past tense. What about those properties, would anyone close to Bob know where they are and have access to them? I can't see how anything would be done at a public place during the daytime. Also, did Fontelle talk to Bob Monday morning, since she would talk to him every morning and evening. No one has said that she did, including Fontelle herself, unless I missed it. Then today on the same tv station that aired Disappeared, they had a different show about a known double murder. The one victims's mother was shown with a person called a "spiritual healer" that had a gift that when he touched her hands, he told her things about the murderer, when he would be captured, etc. Although this information was given to the detectives, which later proved true, this mother was so comforted by this man, that she didn't worry as much after. Just some new ideas to try and what about the Dr. Phil Show? If any of these things have been suggested before, please forgive, as I didn't want to read through all previous comments.

Hi ELB!

So far as I can tell, the properties we know about were all suburban and lived in by Bob's daughters and grandson. I don't think they would have any particular advantage over Bob's Placentia residence to commit a crime.

The Placentia PD said that someone not in the family talked to Bob on the telephone at about 10 am on Monday. They haven't released any more information than that.

From reading and watching all the interviews with Fontelle that I can find, it seems to me that she is working very closely with LE. Out of everyone connected with Bob, she seems to be the only one really working at it.

While I don't always agree with Dr Phil, he does have a big platform and I would love to see him do a show around Bob. It would be most interesting to see which family members would cooperate and which, if any, would submit to a polygraph.

 

[zwiebel]

I would like to see that too. There is such a lot of fuzziness around the question of lie detector tests. If people were asked; if they took them - let alone if results showed they were being honest or not. I can't really see a reason for it, myself.

Even if a lawyer advised against it, would a person really refuse, if they wanted to help investigators help find Bob?

 

[zwiebel]

I have been thinking all day about the landfill. If one was a killer, trying to work out the first place LE might search for a body, wouldn't the local landfill be one of the first places that sprang to mind?

 

[sreshowtime]

not necessarily... if one had LE thinking someone had cold feet...a la runaway groom
Anyway- did LE even search any where?? Did they canvas the neighborhood?

true though, it may be a little too obvious...but then who knows

he is still missing

 

[travelbug]

I have been thinking all day about the landfill. If one was a killer, trying to work out the first place LE might search for a body, wouldn't the local landfill be one of the first places that sprang to mind?

I think the mind of an experienced killer is very different from the mind of an impulse killer. An impulse killer is forced to make sudden decisions with no plan in place for covering their tracks. If there was an accident, for example, a choice needed to be made between reporting the accident or disposing of all evidence. Next would be assessing how much time was available to accomplish the task. Once that decision was made a major change took place: Agnes showed up unexpectedly. Where there was thought to be a couple of days, there were now only a few hours. Although attempts were made to stall for time by failing to notify LE immediate, Fontelle stepped up and called them from Missouri. By far the quickest solution would be a trip to the landfill. After reading, in the landfill information, that a 30 foot high pile of trash could be formed and covered up (by satellite-controlled equipment) in a few days it seems to be a viable option. The assumption had already been made that Bob would not be missed until Fontelle arrived and the landfill area would be covered over by that time.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I would like to see that too. There is such a lot of fuzziness around the question of lie detector tests. If people were asked; if they took them - let alone if results showed they were being honest or not. I can't really see a reason for it, myself.

Even if a lawyer advised against it, would a person really refuse, if they wanted to help investigators help find Bob?

Well, right now while I have no missing loved ones, I can easily say I would refuse on the grounds that it is pseudo-science and any investigation that was ruling people in or out via the use of polygraphs isn't worth cooperating with.

If I had a missing loved one? I like to think I would stick to my guns and stay rational about it but I think I would feel a great deal of pressure to take one.

Darn, now I can't remember the name of the victim or perp but the perp was a 17 year old who was given two polygraphs and passed both of them. It was only after his alibi was shown to be false that LE started looking in his direction again, got a DNA sample and matched it to semen found on the victim. He passed the first one and then the state's investigators called the expertise of the first operator into question and administered a second polygraph with a different operator.

However, the only reason I ever looked into the accuracy of polygraphs is that I had a friend who failed one and should have passed. I think most people have the impression that polygraphs are highly accurate and so a refusal to take one may indicate something about that person.

 

[zwiebel]

I think the mind of an experienced killer is very different from the mind of an impulse killer. An impulse killer is forced to make sudden decisions with no plan in place for covering their tracks. If there was an accident, for example, a choice needed to be made between reporting the accident or disposing of all evidence. Next would be assessing how much time was available to accomplish the task. Once that decision was made a major change took place: Agnes showed up unexpectedly. Where there was thought to be a couple of days, there were now only a few hours. Although attempts were made to stall for time by failing to notify LE immediate, Fontelle stepped up and called them from Missouri. By far the quickest solution would be a trip to the landfill. After reading, in the landfill information, that a 30 foot high pile of trash could be formed and covered up (by satellite-controlled equipment) in a few days it seems to be a viable option. The assumption had already been made that Bob would not be missed until Fontelle arrived and the landfill area would be covered over by that time.

How on earth does the satellite controlled equipment work? It's not actually detecting the height of the garbage from space is it? My mind is boggling.

 

[travelbug]

Zwei, I agree - it's mind boggling. My guess is that use some sort of robotic technology, sort of like a very large version of those robotic vacuums and floor cleaners. The satellite (like a TV satellite) might send images to a central command area. Just a guess though, electronics are definitely not my forte.

 

[zwiebel]

Gosh. Space exploration has led to some wide-ranging developments in most unlikely areas.

I wish they could create a system to check what's going into the trash, as well as how much there is.

I'm trying hard to think of reasons for Bob not to be there, truthfully. It's horrible to think of; the location, and the fact he is probably not findable if he is there.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh no, Camp Pendleton. Bob's old training ground.

My condolences to the bereaved families. Rest in peace, marines.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...accident-at-Camp-Pendleton-in-California.html

 

[Grainne Dhu]

How on earth does the satellite controlled equipment work? It's not actually detecting the height of the garbage from space is it? My mind is boggling.

I have no idea how it works but I can think of a way to use GPS technology to do it. Set a couple fixed GPS stations and then compare all other measurements taken to the height of the set stations.

On the other hand, they don't need a fixed station to measure wave heights on the ocean. For that, they use lines of shadow that are cast from waves with the precise angle of the sun at that place and time.

 

[zwiebel]

Police have identified two sets of remains in the grave in Victorville desert as belonging to missing Mr and Mrs McStay, who disappeared in 2010. It seems very likely the two other sets of remains will turn out to be their children. The graves were discovered by an off highway trail bike rider. Bless him/her.

The McStays disappeared from San Diego and there was widespread speculation they might have fled to Mexico, despite leaving one hundred thousand dollars behind, and abandoning their dogs without food or water. It appears now, false clues were laid.

This gives me new hope Bob can and will be found one day. Then the circumstances of his disappearance will become much, much clearer, and light will also be shed on what I believe are false trails surrounding his case. When that happens, I hope the world will also get to see how his character has been maligned, and by whom.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Police have identified two sets of remains in the grave in Victorville desert as belonging to missing Mr and Mrs McStay, who disappeared in 2010. It seems very likely the two other sets of remains will turn out to be their children. The graves were discovered by an off highway trail bike rider. Bless him/her.

The McStays disappeared from San Diego and there was widespread speculation they might have fled to Mexico, despite leaving one hundred thousand dollars behind, and abandoning their dogs without food or water. It appears now, false clues were laid.

This gives me new hope Bob can and will be found one day. Then the circumstances of his disappearance will become much, much clearer, and light will also be shed on what I believe are false trails surrounding his case. When that happens, I hope the world will also get to see how his character has been maligned, and by whom.

OMG. I had begun to think the disappearance of the McStay family would never be resolved. I rated the possibility that they had gone to Mexico as very, very low. Possible in the same way that it's possible a giant asteroid will obliterate my house tomorrow possible. It just didn't seem consistent with the evidence of their history of personal behaviour and I thought abandoning their dogs meant something really bad had happened to the entire family.

I was so convinced that the mystery might never be solved that it didn't even come to my mind when that news article was linked here.

That poor family.

 

[zwiebel]

I know. I was watching the speculation last night with a cynical eye. I couldn't believe it when I saw the news this morning.

ETA: Sorry, I didn't put any msm link for that stunning news!
http://www.10news.com/news/sources-...mains-of-mcstay-family-found-near-victorville

 

[minusfour]

I never thought we would find out what had happened to the Mcstays. (So many red herrings) In my more wistful moments, I hoped they really were on a beach in Mexico somewhere. (I keep saying to my partner "I just can't believe it")
Zwei, I hardly ever post here, but I want you to know I do read everyday, and think of Mr Harrod everyday. (And Mrs Harrod)