CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[Grainne Dhu]

Well, yeah that's kinda exactly what I was thinking, lol.
I'm having a really tough time with the timeline.
Here's the thing- everyone at the family meeting last saw Mr. Harrod, correct? They all either arrived at his residence independantly, or in company with someone else. None of those people were the CL. None of those people were FH.
Those accounts of a LSA make some sense to me; i.e. 'probably wearing this', or 'possibly wearing this'- or 'last I saw him he had this on', I've experienced that before, for sure.

But a consensus of what is essentially, 'no idea...no clue?' From multiple witnesses all at the same time? Multiple witnesses who were the last to see one specific person? In a private setting? Without a disaster occuring? That's what I can't figure.

And then thinking this person doesn't remember phone numbers so well?

I'm truly not trying to be judgemental or whatever- but that doesn't quite match up. I mean, if you want to talk about other peoples' memories or lack thereof, you best know your own. You know?

I feel really dense. How would knowing what Bob wore the evening before change anything? I mean in light of the fact that two family members have claimed to have had contact with Bob the next day (JeM in person, PB via telephone while JeM was present; for the sake of argument, lets assume for a second that PB did talk to Bob on the telephone on Monday morning).

Wouldn't the description of what Bob was wearing have to come from JeM alone, the only person to admit to seeing Bob on Monday?

 

[believe09]

I get it sre-if he was on a cell phone, then he may have been elsewhere when someone spoke to him at 10 ish.

I dont know how convinced I am about the long distance calling thing, tbh. I think that was another overplayed hand. His outbound and inbound calls were available from the phone company and PPD got the records-we know that from several sources. One of them is PB. It was her post, a chuckling one IIRC, that indicated he didnt know how to use his cell phone. Then again, this is the same family that said he didnt drive on the highway...PPD debunked that one as well.

If I am understanding this line of pondering, there is no need for such wide discrepancies or silences regarding the last time they saw Bob and each other etc. In fact they are suspicious discrepancies. That alone might indicate some kind of proof of some kind of conspiracy.

Am I on the right track?

 

[believe09]

I feel really dense. How would knowing what Bob wore the evening before change anything? I mean in light of the fact that two family members have claimed to have had contact with Bob the next day (JeM in person, PB via telephone while JeM was present; for the sake of argument, lets assume for a second that PB did talk to Bob on the telephone on Monday morning).

Wouldn't the description of what Bob was wearing have to come from JeM alone, the only person to admit to seeing Bob on Monday?

I wont speak for Oriah, but it is a big picture thing imo. Maybe Bob wore the same clothing a few days in a row. Regardless, it seems unlikely that everyone moved in a pack the entire time they were at this meeting and beyond.

Think about your last family event-Aunt Jane arrives at 1 and leaves at 3. Cousin Jim arrives at 115 and leaves at 4PM....kwim? Everyone saw you for that event at a different time. The last time you saw them was at a different time.

 

[sreshowtime]

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/31/local/me-missing-groom31

"After the wedding, Fontelle Harrod went back to her home in Missouri to pack up her possessions; she returned to Placentia on Wednesday. She has not heard from Harrod since Sunday, Loomis said."

BBM- SHE hasn't heard FROM him vs. I haven't been able to reach him

So I am just curious what phone he used and when.
and can/did LE determine anything regarding that cell phone

something is nagging at me

that darn 10 o'clock ish phone call

eta - curious what pivoted this case from missing to suspicious homicide...isn't that what it is being called now??

 

[Oriah]

I feel really dense. How would knowing what Bob wore the evening before change anything? I mean in light of the fact that two family members have claimed to have had contact with Bob the next day (JeM in person, PB via telephone while JeM was present; for the sake of argument, lets assume for a second that PB did talk to Bob on the telephone on Monday morning).

Wouldn't the description of what Bob was wearing have to come from JeM alone, the only person to admit to seeing Bob on Monday?

Very respectfully Grainne- I'm not sure. How could we be?

A last seen is a last seen for sure, and incredibly valuable info.
But the problem is, we have to take everyone's word for it- individually. No one corroborates with anyone else-or rather- they all corroborate in their unknowingness. Despite the fact that he was 'seen' by multiple people/parties within 12-14 hours of him no longer being seen to this day.

So it ends up becoming very important if Mr. Harrod was wearing a white hat and a white belt when he was last seen. Or if he just usually wore a hat and a white belt.

That day might have been different- or night- may have been different.

Regardless- he was last seen by more than a few people who can't recall what he was last seen wearing. And can't corroborate on any of it, except none of them knowing.

You know?

 

[zwiebel]

You know what just kills me about that statement? The not remembering phone numbers.

Specifically? Phone numbers? Pondering.

Oh. That's made me wonder if there might have been some misdialled calls from Bob's line that day - the sort that was nearly a familiar number but just out by a digit or two. That's the kind of misdialling that might stem from someone who can't remember phone numbers.

It happens in my house all the time, but it's not someone with memory problems. It's Mr Z, when he has to use the landline instead of his cell. He's so used to having a number just come up automatically, when he has to dial it himself he is very likely to get a digit or two wrong.

 

[zwiebel]

But Bob wouldn't have had that problem because he couldn't use a cell, according to daughters. And son-in-law wouldn't have had that problem either because I'm sure he would have had a cell, wouldn't he? And there wouldn't have been any reason for him to have gone to Bob's house and left his cell at home, or switched it off, I wouldn't have thought.

 

[zwiebel]

I'd be fascinated to know if there was a misdialled call to Paula, and then a call to Paula, before she called the house and overheard son-in-law say he was going to the store.

 

[Oriah]

I'd be fascinated to know if there was a misdialled call to Paula, and then a call to Paula, before she called the house and overheard son-in-law say he was going to the store.

Yes, like a pocket-dial kind of thing?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

:seeya:

I hope it didn't feel like I was piling on your posts because that was not my intent at all. Over the years, some of us have discussed this case from so many angles and possibilities that we have the pros and cons of many different theories already established in our minds.

Sometimes I think that Bob's disappearance may be one of those "everyone knows but no one talks about it" family sorts of things. Like the way, not so long ago, no one would really talk about how Aunt Jane's "premature" baby was 6 pounds and perfectly healthy at birth, particularly for a preemie of 7 months gestation (she got pregnant on her honeymoon, you see...).

I understand...A case such as this after 4 years, persons have there opinions pretty solidified as to what happened...When someone speculates outside the box if may go against someones belief. Its understandable.

I try to find the id episode but they wanted money to watch it. And I dont use credit card on line. I said i would give it a rest about the cl and I will.

But I think bob was gonna leave for a reason, that is why his wallet and keys were missing. But he met or someone met him in the driveway area and took him...........Of course its all just speculation and assumption.

Just looking for something to give the LEOS to respond to.

I did read recently, that a good place to leave a body is in a fresh grave. Simply remove the fresh dirt put the body in and cover it back up and know one suspects a thing. Of course here we don't have much time.

Ill take a look on Google map later and look around the place see whats around there.

 

[Cubby]

MrTT' I don't use credit cards online either. If you have an xbox, you can buy microsoft points - a prepaid card type thing - and purchase it through X-box. That's how I got the video. 19.99 for the microsoft points, but the kiddo used the rest for games and stuff.

Also, not sure if you saw the Disappeared transcript upthread. If not, here it is:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Thank you askfornina

Thank you for that. I could pretty well see in pictures what was written so not necessary to see the video but would be nice. Don't have Xbox but thank you for the suggestion, Ill be reading that transcript several times at various mental speeds so I don't miss or miss understand anything.

But if a LEO was here right now to answer questions, My first question right off the top of my head from reading that transcript would be this.
And thank you askfornina for posting that transcript!

1. You never did find that extra house key did you?
2. Was the CL dropped off at the location and picked up later?
I would guess dropped off and picked up later yes?


Just out of curiosity. Is there a picture to view of the CL?

add on...no forensic in J vehicle........They went over that with a fine tooth comb and found nothing to indicate a body was inside being transported, no skin cells no hair frolics indicating death. .... Bob left in someones vehicle?

How do we know bob made his bed everyday, how do we know he made it at all. maybe on the days no one was going clean he made it, on the day it was going to be cleaned maybe he didn't...All we know is what the cl said, and I don't take everything she said about there relationship as Gospel...But her saying that put more suspicions on the family, sisters and J. As if he was killed upstairs or whatever before making his bed.

It was a coincidence she was there on the day she scheduled and bob became missing. It was normal for her to be there, so nothing strange about that. And that's right. SHE was supposed to be there that day and she was. If she didn't show up at all that would have been a red flag.

And what she so nervous concerned about...Maybe bob just forgot the key as he went for a walk, transcript said he could walk a mile in that neighborhood, why so nervous?........Ill tell yah why, Because J showed up, and I don't think she anticipated that...I think she thought the key was in the mailbox and she was going to go in and clean by herself, but bob didn't have a chance to leave the key, because when he got his wallet and keys to leave he was taken not long after coming out the door...So since she was schedule to be there, she had to wait. just set there and wait for someone to show up, to prove she was there for sure 100 percent...And then goes in to clean for three hours. That is a long time. I think she would have rather gotten the key go in and clean without having to wait outside. THAT would have been even more normal.

The above is nothing more than speculation and assumptions, posting nothing as being fact. Just an outside the box theory to further decision...........ALL criticisms welcome, to help me forgot about the CL and move on.

 

[believe09]

At the end of the day, Mr TT the question for me would be why. CL doesnt benefit from his death. Mrs Harrod receives no benefit from his death. 5 people receive a benefit from his death and those 5 people were involved in a brawl with him 12-14 hours before he died. LE says that the motive lies in the fight for his money. Only 5 people are in that fight.

To Oriah's points-we have been chewing on the possibility of whether or not a conspiracy like this one could hold. We have been trying to tease out evidence of one in order to make that decision.

What we have, it appears, is a group of people with collective amnesia and silence where there shouldnt be any. One example of that is the question-When did you last see Bob? Another-what was Bob wearing when he was last seen?

There is absolutely no good reason not to have that information out there and honestly answered.

IF you are focusing intently on the need to alibi one another, it seems probable that you would miss this. There shouldnt be an absence of information about these two things. But there is.

This family meeting was about money and who was going to get some and when. This family has proven in the last 4 years that they have no reticence when it comes to airing stuff on the www. A few of them could be considered extraordinarily impulsive when it comes to sharing in fact. Everyone has been quick to come up with partial anecdotes for 7/27. What about 7/26?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

At the end of the day, Mr TT the question for me would be why. CL doesnt benefit from his death. Mrs Harrod receives no benefit from his death. 5 people receive a benefit from his death and those 5 people were involved in a brawl with him 12-14 hours before he died. LE says that the motive lies in the fight for his money. Only 5 people are in that fight.

To Oriah's points-we have been chewing on the possibility of whether or not a conspiracy like this one could hold. We have been trying to tease out evidence of one in order to make that decision.

What we have, it appears, is a group of people with collective amnesia and silence where there shouldnt be any. One example of that is the question-When did you last see Bob? Another-what was Bob wearing when he was last seen?

There is absolutely no good reason not to have that information out there and honestly answered.

IF you are focusing intently on the need to alibi one another, it seems probable that you would miss this. There shouldnt be an absence of information about these two things. But there is.

This family meeting was about money and who was going to get some and when. This family has proven in the last 4 years that they have no reticence when it comes to airing stuff on the www. A few of them could be considered extraordinarily impulsive when it comes to sharing in fact. Everyone has been quick to come up with partial anecdotes for 7/27. What about 7/26?

I never meant to give the impression if she was involved that it was for money...The motive to me would have been rage, anger , revenge etc.
AFTER 10 years all her dreams about her future with him, or promises he made to her financially and so forth all fell apart, came to an end.

He told her he was getting married, and the new wife would be moving in so her services would no longer be necessary.

One thing I wold like to know, but doubtful if we could get that information is what conversation if any bob and the new wife had about the CL. Were they going to keep her on after she moved in, were they going to let her go etc etc...I dont know enough about CL, LOVE to see a picture of her at least. Maybe she is a little old christian lady whom goes to church on Sunday. It just seems everything she says is taken as golden, scripture etc. I am not there yet in giving her all that credibility, and thats because I dont know her yet like many of you do...........

Something else she said. That J stayed upstairs for a minute or two, which made me think he was hiding things or straighten things etc so she would not notice...If that is the case, why would she stay there for 3 hours and clean when she has concern something bad has happened and the person whom let her in the backdoor may had something to do with it.......I would have left, and not stayed there with him if i felt something bad happened.

Thanks for responding.

Still going to wait and see if Any LEOs answer my questions I posted including the one in here about there discussion on what to do with her after the new wife moved in.............

Goodnight.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

I never meant to give the impression if she was involved that it was for money...The motive to me would have been rage, anger , revenge etc.
AFTER 10 years all her dreams about her future with him, or promises he made to her financially and so forth all fell apart, came to an end.

He told her he was getting married, and the new wife would be moving in so her services would no longer be necessary.

One thing I wold like to know, but doubtful if we could get that information is what conversation if any bob and the new wife had about the CL. Were they going to keep her on after she moved in, were they going to let her go etc etc...I dont know enough about CL, LOVE to see a picture of her at least. Maybe she is a little old christian lady whom goes to church on Sunday. It just seems everything she says is taken as golden, scripture etc. I am not there yet in giving her all that credibility, and thats because I dont know her yet like many of you do...........

Something else she said. That J stayed upstairs for a minute or two, which made me think he was hiding things or straighten things etc so she would not notice...If that is the case, why would she stay there for 3 hours and clean when she has concern something bad has happened and the person whom let her in the backdoor may had something to do with it.......I would have left, and not stayed there with him if i felt something bad happened.

Thanks for responding.

Still going to wait and see if Any LEOs answer my questions I posted including the one in here about there discussion on what to do with her after the new wife moved in.............

Goodnight.

I think it is fairly common for many women to put aside fears and intuition out of a sense of embarrassment/ belief/hope nothing will happen to them. A lot of safety advice for women stresses the need for them to heed their intuition and not to be embarrassed to cross the road, or turn around to check who is following, or leave a place where someone is making them feel uncomfortable. Or even run.

It sounds simple, but it's not. It's happened to me. I've walked towards a stranger on the street just knowing they were going to be a problem, but felt strangely compelled to carry on, and far too embarrassed to run for no obvious reason. It's even harder if it's someone a person already knows.

"We are the only animal that will walk into danger with out intuition screaming at us, "Look out!"
http://www.realfighting.com/content.php?id=69

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, like a pocket-dial kind of thing?

Not quite. More like a call from a landline, from someone more used to calling that number from a cell. So it takes two attempts to get the number right.

I believe Paula called Bob's house that morning though, rather than Bob or anyone else at the house calling her. And there were other calls too, according to LE and daughters. And Paula said she got the impression Bob had taken a lot of calls that morning he disappeared.

This seems worth noting to me, given it was the last day Bob was seen and he seems to have had an unusual flurry of calls in a short time period. What was so urgent that apparently so many people had to talk to him on a Monday morning?

It makes me think Bob may have planned to do something Monday that was giving some people some concern - that they might even have been trying to prevent.

 

[cloudajo]

I never meant to give the impression if she was involved that it was for money...The motive to me would have been rage, anger , revenge etc.
AFTER 10 years all her dreams about her future with him, or promises he made to her financially and so forth all fell apart, came to an end.

He told her he was getting married, and the new wife would be moving in so her services would no longer be necessary.

One thing I wold like to know, but doubtful if we could get that information is what conversation if any bob and the new wife had about the CL. Were they going to keep her on after she moved in, were they going to let her go etc etc...I dont know enough about CL, LOVE to see a picture of her at least. Maybe she is a little old christian lady whom goes to church on Sunday. It just seems everything she says is taken as golden, scripture etc. I am not there yet in giving her all that credibility, and thats because I dont know her yet like many of you do...........

Something else she said. That J stayed upstairs for a minute or two, which made me think he was hiding things or straighten things etc so she would not notice...If that is the case, why would she stay there for 3 hours and clean when she has concern something bad has happened and the person whom let her in the backdoor may had something to do with it.......I would have left, and not stayed there with him if i felt something bad happened.

Thanks for responding.

Still going to wait and see if Any LEOs answer my questions I posted including the one in here about there discussion on what to do with her after the new wife moved in.............

Goodnight.

Investigation Discovery doesn’t have the Long Lost Love video posted on their site yet, but you can buy it from Amazon Instant Videos for $1.99 and watch it online at the link below.

Starting at 21:45, you can watch Agnes (the housekeeper) speaking and re-enacting what happened the day Bob went missing. It’s Agnes herself (not an actress) and it’s Bob’s actual house where they filmed.

I think you can get a good sense of her when you watch this.

Amazon.com: Disappeared: Season 6, Episode 13 "Long Lost Love"

 

[zwiebel]

This site caught my attention because they are asking people to be on the lookout out for tiny, tiny fruit flies and weevils etc, and they're not daunted!
I like this 'outreach' page they have;
http://www.firewood.ca.gov/outreach.html
And they also have a very comprehensive list of campgrounds.
http://www.firewood.ca.gov/links.html

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Very respectfully Grainne- I'm not sure. How could we be?

A last seen is a last seen for sure, and incredibly valuable info.
But the problem is, we have to take everyone's word for it- individually. No one corroborates with anyone else-or rather- they all corroborate in their unknowingness. Despite the fact that he was 'seen' by multiple people/parties within 12-14 hours of him no longer being seen to this day.

So it ends up becoming very important if Mr. Harrod was wearing a white hat and a white belt when he was last seen. Or if he just usually wore a hat and a white belt.

That day might have been different- or night- may have been different.

Regardless- he was last seen by more than a few people who can't recall what he was last seen wearing. And can't corroborate on any of it, except none of them knowing.

You know?

That makes sense.

From the family's point of view, if they were telling the truth, each of them would have some sort of memory instead of all of them not remembering a thing. And they'd be pushing JeM forward to say what Bob was wearing that last day (for the sake of credibility).

I did realise something. I seem to recollect that they did seem to remember that they all left around 7 pm Sunday evening. I suddenly wondered if that is when Bob had had it with them and asked them all to leave. Now. Right now.

More and more, I think that 10 am phone call with Bob was probably his lawyer, his banker or his financial planner.

All those pesky outsiders who provided the parameters of the window when Bob went missing. If that CL hadn't shown up, I doubt JeM's presence in the house Monday would never have been known. People can be so inconvenient... especially about their money.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

:seeya:

I understand...A case such as this after 4 years, persons have there opinions pretty solidified as to what happened...When someone speculates outside the box if may go against someones belief. Its understandable.

I try to find the id episode but they wanted money to watch it. And I dont use credit card on line. I said i would give it a rest about the cl and I will.

But I think bob was gonna leave for a reason, that is why his wallet and keys were missing. But he met or someone met him in the driveway area and took him...........Of course its all just speculation and assumption.

Just looking for something to give the LEOS to respond to.

I did read recently, that a good place to leave a body is in a fresh grave. Simply remove the fresh dirt put the body in and cover it back up and know one suspects a thing. Of course here we don't have much time.

Ill take a look on Google map later and look around the place see whats around there.

If I wanted to make someone look like they had voluntarily left the house when I knew they hadn't, the first thing I'd do is get rid of their keys, wallet or purse. Those are the two items that look most suspicious when they are present and the person who owns them is not.

A fresh grave is something I hadn't thought of before. It makes a gruesome kind of sense and I do recall reading that the Mafia used to use that trick. It's too bad those ground penetrating radar units are so expensive (and slow). Short of sticking a core sampler into the ground above every grave of approximately the same time Bob disappeared, I can't think of any other way to check it out.