Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Seattle1]

One thing that struck me about KM's use of "joyride." Most people use joyride when talking about a stolen car. Taking your parent's car for a joyride would often mean you took it out and placed it back in the garage without their knowledge (hopefully, lol), otherwise, most people would say road trip.

But according to KM, those were not his words:

"They looked at me and said, 'No, mom and dad told me to go for a long joy ride," Ste-Croix said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

 

[Arizona 123]

I've been wondering about the actual location of L&C's van when it was found. The media maps I've seen don't seem to add up, so I decided to find the actual location.

I used the landmarks (mountains, exposed escarpments on hillsides, etc) to compare street view to landmarks in the photos, looking both directions. The street view scene is 10 years old, and the view has changed a lot; the forest used to come far closer to the road on the side the van was parked. Also, the road was narrower.

I'm confident this is accurate to within 100 feet.
Google Maps
it is 25.6 KM south of Laird Hot Springs Lodge.

A vehicle coming from the south would see the van from over a mile away.

I'm currently wondering if the suspects saw that site again. The professor was about 50KM south of Dease Lake when he was murdered. The truck was found burning 2km north of the professor's body. Either they kept heading north, or, they doubled back and headed south, past the body in plain view. I'm wondering if they kept heading north, then went south past the van site before turning East at Ft. Nelson.

 

[Shlock Homes]

they liked burning things. I said in a post before that most teen males like vehicles and would be reluctant to completely destroy them, but these guys did not really value anything, IMO, and I wonder if they had any arson in their past.

But then why didn't they burn the first vehicle, Fowler and Deese's van? People also destroy vehicles to hide evidence, but there wouldn't be any point of them destroying their truck or the RAV4 unless they had dna or other evidence that was in there. In fact, it seems in these cases, burning the vehicles only served to have them found sooner, because they did it close to roads.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I've been wondering about the actual location of L&C's van when it was found. The media maps I've seen don't seem to add up, so I decided to find the actual location.

I used the landmarks (mountains, exposed escarpments on hillsides, etc) to compare street view to landmarks in the photos, looking both directions. The street view scene is 10 years old, and the view has changed a lot; the forest used to come far closer to the road on the side the van was parked. Also, the road was narrower.

I'm confident this is accurate to within 100 feet.
Google Maps
it is 25.6 KM south of Laird Hot Springs Lodge.

A vehicle coming from the south would see the van from over a mile away.

I'm currently wondering if the suspects saw that site again. The professor was about 50KM south of Dease Lake when he was murdered. The truck was found burning 2km north of the professor's body. Either they kept heading north, or, they doubled back and headed south, past the body in plain view. I'm wondering if they kept heading north, then went south past the van site before turning East at Ft. Nelson.

I think the vehicle that came across them would have been approaching in the dark. Because Chynna Deese wasn't wearing her shorts and t shirt as seen in the gas station video shot earlier in the day. She was probably wearing longer sleeves which would indicate it was late in the evening. There aren't any lights, so seeing their van from far away wouldn't have been possible. I think any vehicle that spotted them would have over shot.
But that certainly makes explaining KM & BS seeing them, because they would have been coming from the north.

 

[Shlock Homes]

But according to KM, those were not his words:

"They looked at me and said, 'No, mom and dad told me to go for a long joy ride," Ste-Croix said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

Another example of how their m.o. doesn't make any sense. On the one hand we are to believe they are running from the law due to their crimes, on the other hand, they are letting themselves be seen on store cameras and willingly giving their names to random people. If they were hiding their crime, and hiding from police, they would have done more to conceal their identity. None of it makes sense.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Hey well most teen males don't gun down three innocent people either. What's a vehicle in the grand scheme of things if you don't even value the sanctity of life including your own?



As I said I dont think they committed any previous crimes because I think they were total idiots and would have been caught, especially if it was a frequent thing. I think this was an "extinction burst."



I don't think if it was robbery, it was for material gain. It would be for thrill and exerting power over someone.

Wouldn't they have been bragging about what they did, if it was for a 'thrill'? And why just stop in BC, they had plenty of opportunity to add more names to their list. Then they continued to travel without any fear of being seen on camera, or giving their REAL names to random strangers. Not exactly the behaviour of people who murdered three people. Killing people isn't something you get over that quickly.

 

[Shlock Homes]

The weird thing about Bryer is, at least based on people who have come forward, he liked to talk about Nazis to people who were clearly uncomfortable with the idea, but then, according to the one guy who was alt-right, he talked about being a communist. He's like the ultimate internet troll--"whatever you are, I'm not!"

It's certainly possible, though, that he had some online buddies that he didn't try to troll about politics and was straightforward with them about his interests, but they haven't come forward.

The media only publishes stories that get people's back's up. Saying someone is a nazi sympathizer is a lot more interesting than saying 'he was a nice guy who always had my back'. So it's possible there are plenty of people who would give these two guys glowing character references. We would have gotten that if there was a trial.

 

[KR72]

The media only publishes stories that get people's back's up. Saying someone is a nazi sympathizer is a lot more interesting than saying 'he was a nice guy who always had my back'. So it's possible there are plenty of people who would give these two guys glowing character references. We would have gotten that if there was a trial.

These two have had plenty of "nice guy" "good boy" stories out there about them though, even Bryer. They've even been infantilized by AS in interviews.

 

[sandbar]

They sell some ammo.

SOME stores sell SOME ammo

 

[KR72]

SOME stores sell SOME ammo

I actually have to go to Walmart later today (pray for me), I'll check and see if my local store sells any ammo. I've never seen any there in the past but it's not as if I've ever looked for it before.

 

[Link Haze]

I highly doubt they would give a 19 year old who works at Walmart that much without a cosigner.

I doubt it too, but you never know... they could be fraudulent cards, stolen, or the parents pre-loaded cards for Kam - whatever, it's hypothetical. I threw out the large figures based on someone's Google research on what guns cost in Canada. All just speculation in the event they were not taken from Kam's household (I picture them using handguns rather than rifles or shotguns). What we know for sure is that they had 2 guns. What we need (want) to know is where those guns came from. Guess that will all come out later as evidence is released.

 

[sandbar]

I actually have to go to Walmart later today (pray for me), I'll check and see if my local store sells any ammo. I've never seen any there in the past but it's not as if I've ever looked for it before.

Are you in a city or town? I bet whether Walmart sells ammo and the types they carry are to meet local needs. I'm in Turrono and I'm going to ask too.

 

[Esprite]

SBM

I was talking to my brother about the case today, mainly because I was asking him about airsoft weapons (he's an avid shooter and actually a gunsmith by trade), but I ended up explaining the case to him and showing him the surveillance footage.

His one observation that really stood out to me after I was explaining some of their boneheaded decisions, even without me explaining killer duo power dynamics, was that they both sounded like followers. Basically, a blind leading the blind scenario.

Incidentally, his other main observation was of them walking out the door in the footage. His exact words were "Those are some tall boys." Then he pointed out that Bryer's head nearly touches the door frame. I think this has maybe been brought up before, but how tall are commercial doors in Canada? I know a standard door height here in the States is 6'8".

He also told me I seemed a little obsessed with the case and needed to back away from the ledge. LOL But he wants an update on anything the Mounties release, so I may have gotten him hooked, too.

My son-in-law and grandson are both 6 feet 7 inches tall. No head injuries thus far; although sometimes I reckon that the air must be a little thin up there. Joke.

They're fascinated with this case as well. That's all we talk about at family dinners. Much to chagrin of other, less interested, family members. I no longer mention the case to my husband at home; he just rolls his eyes, and leaves the room. So, yes, I get ya.

 

[sandbar]

Question for a SPS player: Do players typically use hand guns or long guns? I don't know anything about guns, except I don't like them.

It seems to me that the skill, stance, and recoil etc would be completely different with a hand gun or rifle IRL.

I've just imagined that the players in the game use machine guns and hold their finger on a button and spray any and everything with bullets. Is it too much to think they got their hands on machines guns or something that shoots a lot of bullets? That might explain all the evidence markers on the scenes.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Thank you to those who shared the video that gave the number of shell casings found at the Fowler/Deese crime scene. Interesting how when asked, the Assistant Commissioner did not answer the question of whether or not shell casings were found at the Leonard Dyck crime scene. I don't believe those cones at the scene where Leondard Dyck's body was found were marking shell casings. I think they were marking tire tracks, shoe prints and perhaps a few things were dropped at the scene or fell out of the RAV. Also my understanding is that the white tarp was laid out to prevent rain from washing away any shoe prints or tire tracks and preserve what they do have.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Wouldn't they have been bragging about what they did, if it was for a 'thrill'? And why just stop in BC, they had plenty of opportunity to add more names to their list. Then they continued to travel without any fear of being seen on camera, or giving their REAL names to random strangers. Not exactly the behaviour of people who murdered three people. Killing people isn't something you get over that quickly.

Not necessarily. Witness accounts indicate that they seemed terrified during their escape. I agree that they didn't seem like people who were cut out for the whole crime thing, like Ted Bundy or something...as I said, anxiety and murder do not mix. But, a lot of people who commit crimes end up regretting it.

I think at least the first two murders happened in some sort of rage -- either rage at Lucas and Chynna specifically following some altercation, or non-specific rage at the world. I think it's highly possible they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol when they did it, considering the situation -- two teens out on their own with no cops for hundreds of miles around.

It's possible they were still in the rage when they killed Prof Dyck, or (more likely IMO) it's possible that they were already in panic mode by then, possibly after seeing signs on the highway asking for dashcam footage that might give clues to Lucas/Chynna's murder, and killed him for "strategic" purposes to escape in his car (which, yes, a lot doesn't make sense about that, but a) they were emotionally disturbed, b) they were idiots, c) it's possible drugs were involved here too).

But, rage can't keep a person going forever. As the rage wore off, the horrible reality of the situation set in. I think subconsciously, the rest of their escape was just them buying time so they could come to terms with the fact that their lives were over and get to the point where they were able to kill themselves (because they were too cowardly to turn themselves in and face up to what they did). I don't think it ever would have been a prolonged killing spree. I think it was just this one "extinction burst" and that was all they had in them.

The media only publishes stories that get people's back's up. Saying someone is a nazi sympathizer is a lot more interesting than saying 'he was a nice guy who always had my back'. So it's possible there are plenty of people who would give these two guys glowing character references. We would have gotten that if there was a trial.

It doesn't really matter how glowing their character references are. They are linked to the murders through forensic evidence, not because "they're weirdos so we're going to assume they did it."

 

[Moriarty]

Another example of how their m.o. doesn't make any sense. On the one hand we are to believe they are running from the law due to their crimes, on the other hand, they are letting themselves be seen on store cameras and willingly giving their names to random people. If they were hiding their crime, and hiding from police, they would have done more to conceal their identity. None of it makes sense.

I get the sense that applying some top-level, overriding logical structure to these guys might be a mistake and give them too much credit.

It seems far more likely to me they were employing more of an ad hoc, this makes sense right now, now this makes sense right now type of thinking..."we just killed this couple, let's get the hell out of here and camp out several hundred km away on another highway"..."the RCMP are asking for info and dashcam footage, we need to ditch our truck, let's burn it"..."let's stay as far north as we can and avoid larger urban places like Edmonton"..."we've reached the end of the road in northern Manitoba and can't go back through that constable checkpoint, let's burn this Rav so they won't be able to trace it back to anyone and take off along this creekbed"...

Someone several threads earlier mentioned the cinematic, video game-like quality to their actions. This is that video game, ad hoc-ism where every decision is made in the moment and makes sense in that moment based on the materials at hand. "Hey, here's a boat, it must be here for a reason, let's take it."

JMO

 

[Zella]

The media only publishes stories that get people's back's up. Saying someone is a nazi sympathizer is a lot more interesting than saying 'he was a nice guy who always had my back'. So it's possible there are plenty of people who would give these two guys glowing character references. We would have gotten that if there was a trial.

If that were true, there would be none of the various accounts in the media of Kam being called a nice person who was a good friend.

 

[Errrr]

With the camper and their truck I still wonder if like someone speculated back a bit, if that fire was an accident. Whether they were trying to cook something or? If so that could be another explanation of leaving possessions inside, no time to grab anything.

Except for the arsenal. Theft of the professors car would make a lot of sense. It was clearly full of camping gear. Maybe he stopped to help them?

 

[Zella]

Duplicate DBM