NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Ontario Mom]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1863638624064909379

 

[Jade]

If Dr. Chundru is right--and I have no reason to believe he isn't--the sickling event started before the passengers exited the train, so it would not have mattered if DP had released his hold sooner--JN was already dying due to several factors.

<modsnip - not an approved source>

[...]

Assistant District Attorney Dafna Yoran challenged Chundru saying someone in a sickling crisis would likely appear lethargic and short of breath, unlike Neely’s loud and aggressive behavior testified to by subway witnesses.

[...]
Daniel Penny’s defense centers on disputing Jordan Neely’s cause of death on NYC subway


all imo

 

[Marysmith]

<modsnip - not an approved source>

Assistant District Attorney Dafna Yoran challenged Chundru saying someone in a sickling crisis would likely appear lethargic and short of breath, unlike Neely’s loud and aggressive behavior testified to by subway witnesses.

[...]
Daniel Penny’s defense centers on disputing Jordan Neely’s cause of death on NYC subway


all imo

I hope they drive this point home in closing because having the trait and having the disease are 2 very different things. I also think it was inappropriate of him to claim schizophrenia as a cause of death as well... but it was said.

 

[PrairieWind]

Closing arguments today , with the Defense up first.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1863638624064909379

The Defense had to go first on closings? Was this agreed upon?

 

[Ontario Mom]

The Defense had to go first on closings? Was this agreed upon?

Unsure. The media coverage on this case has been less than ideal so it's hard to say.

 

[PrairieWind]

Unsure. The media coverage on this case has been less than ideal so it's hard to say.

True. We criticize rural Iowa courts for lack of coverage but Manhattan is not only no better, but far worse.

 

[shotgun09]

The Defense had to go first on closings? Was this agreed upon?

There was this from Inner City Press on "x" :
( It doesn't sound like an agreement to me)

Daniel Penny's lawyer Raiser's closing argument, amid needless problems covering it [book on trial evidence below] 1) “I go first, and when you go first, I don’t get to respond... When the ADA get ups I want you think what would Mr. Raiser & Kenniff say

https://twitter.com/x/status/1863630118796628128

 

[Inthedetails]

The Defense had to go first on closings? Was this agreed upon?

In New York:

"At the end of the trial, the defense may make a closing statement, which is called a summation. Afterwards, the prosecutor makes their own closing statement. Then the jury or Judge makes a final decision, which is called a verdict."

https://www.nycourts.gov/courthelp/criminal/trial.shtml

 

[IDK]

Apparently there are protestors outside the courthouse chanting “guilty”. I always worry that protests like this will influence a jury’s decision. All IMO.

Daniel Penny greeted with chants of ‘Guilty!’ as closing arguments begin in Jordan Neely chokehold case

Daniel Penny was greeted with shouts of “Guilty!” as he arrived in court Monday morning ahead of closing arguments in his lightning-rod Manhattan manslaughter trial in the chokehold dea…

nypost.com

 

[shotgun09]

From Dan Rivoli on 'x' :

ADA Dafna Yoran has been repeatedly raising objections throughout defense summation, repeatedly overruled

and....

Raiser puts it to the jurors:"Who would you want on the next train ride with you?""The government wasn't there. The police weren’t there when the people on that train needed help. Danny was."

also:
DA Alvin Bragg is now inside the court room as Daniel Penny's defense wraps up closing arguments and prosecution begins its summation

x.com

x.com

 

[shotgun09]

I am assuming this quote tweet is from ADA Yoran, during her closing:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1863679564389511276

 

[Ontario Mom]

Daniel Penny “acted to save” subway riders from a “desperate” Jordan Neely, his lawyer argued Monday — asking jurors in the lightning-rod Manhattan trial: “Who would you want on the next train with you?” “Danny acted when others didn’t,” defense attorney Steven Raiser said during his closing statement in Manhattan Supreme Court. “He put his life on the line. He did that for perfect strangers,” he said of Penny, 26, who is is charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide over the fatal May 2023 encounter. ‘Who would you want on the train with you?’: Defense lawyers make final plea to jurors, say Daniel Penny ‘acted when others didn’t’ in closing statement

 

[LinasK]

Realistically, as soon as the sickling event was triggered, he was going to die.

MOO

And I'm of the belief that the sickling is irrelevant.

 

[JennieM]

From what I understand—and from watching the video more times than I should have—DP was not struggling to breathe as much as he was struggling against being restrained.

DP's, military trainer testified that DP could have rendered JN unconscious within seconds, so it doesn't appear that DP was trying to harm JN as much as he was trying to hold him still. If you notice, the crook of DP's elbow is just below JN's chin, which indicates DP's hold at JN's trachea was not compressive. Had he had his forearm in that spot and pulled upward, it would have indicated choking off JN's air supply.

I don't think the chokehold precipitated JN's death any more than if JN had been restrained just by his arms and legs. As long as JN was struggling, he was going to enter the sickling event.

Alternately, I don't think a healthy person being restrained by DP that day would have died.

All MOO...

Was DP trained only to chokehold healthy people?

I think most of us, if not all, commenting on this thread would have died after 6 min, healthy or not.

 

[Lilibet]

Regardless of any ailments, Mr Neely would have been VERY unlikely to die while on the train car if Mr Penny had not gotten involved and restrained him longer than necessary. So logically, Mr Penny’s action caused Mr Neely’s death.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

“He put his life on the line. He did that for perfect strangers,” he said of Penny, 26, who is is charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide over the fatal May 2023 encounter. ‘Who would you want on the train with you?’: Defense lawyers make final plea to jurors, say Daniel Penny ‘acted when others didn’t’ in closing statement

Mr Penny has not been charged for stepping in to restrain Mr Neely. I believe all of us would have been grateful. But I would never have been grateful for Mr Penny causing Mr Neely’s death by holding him around the neck too long. He had help. It was unnecessary.

JMO

 

[Snoopster]

Daniel Penny “acted to save” subway riders from a “desperate” Jordan Neely, his lawyer argued Monday — asking jurors in the lightning-rod Manhattan trial: “Who would you want on the next train with you?” “Danny acted when others didn’t,” defense attorney Steven Raiser said during his closing statement in Manhattan Supreme Court. “He put his life on the line. He did that for perfect strangers,” he said of Penny, 26, who is is charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide over the fatal May 2023 encounter. ‘Who would you want on the train with you?’: Defense lawyers make final plea to jurors, say Daniel Penny ‘acted when others didn’t’ in closing statement

But is killing the guy the right response?
I think that neutralizing the guy is the right response. DP had others there to help him and the subway car passengers had long departed. I wonder if he had a 'hero complex'. Was that discussed at trial?

 

[Donswife48]

I only know this due to following true crime for 50+ years but eyewitness testimony is always incredibly inconsistent.
10 people can witness the exact same scenario and you'll get 15 different opinions on what happened, when it happened, colors of cars, weapons used, men present, women present, what was said, etc.
I'm sure there are some very reasonable psychological reasons for this (tons of articles if you google why eye witness testimony is unreliable), but it's just the way it is.

I took part in a one day study on what a jury observes. We were shown a short video of an actual assault case, listened to both the prosecution and defense closing statements. We were dismissed for lunch, then brought back and questioned on what we observed and what verdict we would give. None of us got everything right, what color clothing, hair color, facial or body features - we missed lots. In the end, we were told the actual verdict. That was an eye opener because we were all certain, yet mostly all wrong.

 

[Donswife48]

But is killing the guy the right response?
I think that neutralizing the guy is the right response. DP had others there to help him and the subway car passengers had long departed. I wonder if he had a 'hero complex'. Was that discussed at trial?

DP didn't set out to kill JN. I believe he honestly didn't think that his hold on JN was lethal. I know time stands still when I'm in a panic, and I'm not aware of anything in the moment except what I initially thought I should do. DP did not have a hero complex, I believe he had a thought to keep himself and others from harm, regardless to his danger in confronting a person that was so dirty that even LE wouldn't apply resuscitation because of worrying that they would be in danger of disease. How is this any difference than an auto accident? Yet people are not charged with manslaughter or sentenced to years in prison from that. Does every death, even accidental, have to be punishable by jail/prison time. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

IMO, I am not surprised that different witnesses have different memories of exact details. It was a sudden unexpected threat with everyone caught off guard.

Surely the woman whom Mr Penny claims Mr Neely threatened, saying “I will kill,” would remember accurately whether he did or did not do so. She testified under oath that he did not say “I will kill.”

[...]
“At that moment Danny sees a mother barricading her son behind a stroller just as Mr. Neely appears to go for them,” Kenniff said. “(Danny) hears the words, ‘I will kill.’
[...]
https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/01/us/daniel-penny-trial-jordan-neely-death/index.htm

[...]
“I actually took the stroller that I had and I put it in front of my son to create a barrier of sorts, you know, because I didn’t know what was going to happen,” she testified.

“Did Mr. Neely ever lunge at you and say: ‘I will kill?’” prosecutor Jillian Shartrand asked.

“No, he did not,” Sitro testified.