NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Love Never Fails]

While this is generally how many juror instructions are written, it was not true in this specific case:

Before deliberations began Tuesday afternoon, Wiley told the jury that it must come to a unanimous decision on the manslaughter charge before it would be allowed to consider criminally negligent homicide.

Judge dismisses manslaughter charge in Daniel Penny trial after jury deadlock

The anonymous jury will still consider the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide.

www.nbcnews.com

Thanks Seattle. And the jury couldn’t be unanimous.

 

[PrairieWind]

Behind in the discussion, and no lawyer here, but I'm thinking it is possible that the actual instructions to the jury included wording (or in may cases an assistive flow chart) that, paraphrased by me "in the event you do not not find the accused guilty on Count 1, you may proceed to consider Count 2..."

IF the wording in the instructions allowed for that (and I'm fairly convinced it would have), then the defence would have been aware of it, so I'm not sure what the kerfuffle is about.

The jury form was posted a few pages back. It said the jury had to find the Defendant non guilty on the first, for reasons other than non-justification, in order to proceed to count 2. That is why ultimately the State dismissed count 1. I don't think this tactic will work and I wouldn't be surprised if the judge just declares a mistrial Monday morning.

 

[Tricia]

Please everyone remember our rules. We had to remover numerous posts.
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[JennieM]

I arrived at robbery one day where a woman with a machete was just leaving the store, still wielding the weapon. I knew 911 had been called but followed her from a safe distance so as not to lose track of her. An unarmed citizen jumped out of a truck with a blanket, followed her through a parking lot and brought her down at the ankles from behind, covering the machete with the blanket. IMO, that guy was a hero.

Stepping in but not killing, I wish DP had done the same.

 

[DS2021]

Please everyone remember our rules. We had to remover numerous posts.
Take a breath or better yet, take a break and come back and participate when you feel you have calmed down.
Thank you,
Tricia

My apologies. Thank you to you and your wonderful mod team

 

[Linda7NJ]

Stepping in but not killing, I wish DP had done the same.

I still do not see evidence Penny killed him. He was still alive when the police finally arrived.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I still do not see evidence Penny killed him. He was still alive when the police finally arrived.

And they testified to that fact.

 

[INfisherman]

I arrived at robbery one day where a woman with a machete was just leaving the store, still wielding the weapon. I knew 911 had been called but followed her from a safe distance so as not to lose track of her. An unarmed citizen jumped out of a truck with a blanket, followed her through a parking lot and brought her down at the ankles from behind, covering the machete with the blanket. IMO, that guy was a hero.

Evidently the man who brought her down should thank a higher power she didn’t hit her head or fall on her own machete, resulting in her death. Had that occurred, some might see him as a criminal or at the very least negligent. That’s unfortunate.

Not saying i disagree with your opinion at all, simply pointing out what I say above is how we are devolving. People try to help but gawkers or readers suddenly become experts when most wouldn’t know how they’d react if put in a grave situation. I ponder owning a gun for my protection but the only thing keeping me from it is if I ever used it, the inevitable endless critiquing of what I could have done differently from everyone else who wasn’t standing in my shoes. Some don’t even seem to try & think about that - their personal convictions often seem to outweigh empathy or consideration. Is this not how we fundamentally learn?

Apologies for being off topic, but good analogy to this case as well as discussion point.

JMO

 

[JennieM]

I still do not see evidence Penny killed him. He was still alive when the police finally arrived.

A car run over Tom. Tom was still alive when the ambulance and police finally arrived, but died soon after. The police told the car driver to drive away. It was Tom’s own fault that he died.

 

[sunspun]

I arrived at robbery one day where a woman with a machete was just leaving the store, still wielding the weapon. I knew 911 had been called but followed her from a safe distance so as not to lose track of her. An unarmed citizen jumped out of a truck with a blanket, followed her through a parking lot and brought her down at the ankles from behind, covering the machete with the blanket. IMO, that guy was a hero.

And she (the perp) lived to tell her story safely from the inside of a jail cell, I presume. Much better way of handling it, better for everyone.

 

[IceIce9]

A car run over Tom. Tom was still alive when the ambulance and police finally arrived, but died soon after. The police told the car driver to drive away. It was Tom’s own fault that he died.

I think you posted on the wrong thread?

 

[Snoopster]

I think you posted on the wrong thread?

I don't think they did. The poster was just showing the fallacy of that argument.
People are arguing that since JN was still alive when first responders got there, that he couldn't be responsible for his death. But that's not necessarily true. If I throw acid on my partner and she is not dead when first responders get there but she dies a day later, does that mean that I am not responsible for her death?

 

[Marysmith]

I think you posted on the wrong thread?

No. It's a retelling of what happened here. IMO.

 

[Leilei]

NYC subway passengers hid, prayed during Jordan Neely’s ‘insanely threatening’ rant before deadly chokehold: court docs

Train passengers who were in the subway car when homeless man Jordan Neely launched into a maniacal rant just before his death described his words as “sickening” and “satanic” — as defense attorney…

nypost.com

Your article is from over a year ago, but if this witness is Eric Gonzalez, he admitted under oath that he lied to LE. He didn't enter the subway car until after DP took JN down. He then helped DP, along with another man, who refused to testify.

Witness in Daniel Penny trial lied about his involvement — and proves no good deed goes unpunished

Eric Gonzalez’s admission took a wrecking ball to his credibility as witness. But it didn’t make him an unsympathetic figure.

nypost.com

IMO.

 

[browneyes]

The jury form was posted a few pages back. It said the jury had to find the Defendant non guilty on the first, for reasons other than non-justification, in order to proceed to count 2. That is why ultimately the State dismissed count 1. I don't think this tactic will work and I wouldn't be surprised if the judge just declares a mistrial Monday morning.

I agree. I believe that’s why today ended so abruptly. I think the judge wanted to make sure he did the right thing.

 

[Donswife48]

Your article is from over a year ago, but if this witness is Eric Gonzalez, he admitted under oath that he lied to LE. He didn't enter the subway car until after DP took JN down. He then helped DP, along with another man, who refused to testify.

Witness in Daniel Penny trial lied about his involvement — and proves no good deed goes unpunished

Eric Gonzalez’s admission took a wrecking ball to his credibility as witness. But it didn’t make him an unsympathetic figure.

nypost.com

IMO.

Neely was a 30-year-old with schizophrenia who told straphangers that someone was going to "die today" and that he didn't care about going to prison for life. Penny grabbed him from behind in a chokehold to stop the outburst.

Daniel Penny manslaughter charge dismissed as jury breaks for weekend

Daniel Penny jurors struggled to reach consensus on top charge, manslaughter, which carries a max sentence of 15 years in prison for the death of Jordan Neely.

www.aol.com

 

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[Marysmith]

I still do not see evidence Penny killed him. He was still alive when the police finally arrived.

Any chance he had of living was gone by the time Penny finally released his hold on him. That is why he was not able to be revived. Because his breathing had been impaired for almost 6 minutes. No one could survive that. If he still had a chance of being undead he would be alive because the police would have been able to revive him. They really tried. But unfortunately Penny had already killed him with the chokehold that he chose to not release for 6 minutes.

 

[Marysmith]

Neely was a 30-year-old with schizophrenia who told straphangers that someone was going to "die today" and that he didn't care about going to prison for life. Penny grabbed him from behind in a chokehold to stop the outburst.

Daniel Penny manslaughter charge dismissed as jury breaks for weekend

Daniel Penny jurors struggled to reach consensus on top charge, manslaughter, which carries a max sentence of 15 years in prison for the death of Jordan Neely.

www.aol.com

To stop a verbal outburst. Let's just make that clear. A verbal outburst only. Not even directed at anyone.

 

[Marysmith]

And they testified to that fact.

No, they did not. They testified that they tried to revive him only. He was already dead and he couldn't be revived or he would still be alive.