Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[jepop]

Yes hopefully she will weigh in! The human body is truly amazing, and IMO if he had been given full resuscitation immediately, the outcome may well have been different.

JN also had synthetic drugs in his system per the medical examiner. I wouldn’t be surprised if that didn’t affect his breathing, neuro status and response to rescue treatments:

“We found in the blood a synthetic cannabinoid – a relatively new drug in the scheme of drugs," she said. "They’re synthetic and more potent than marijuana. In a class of drugs, they fall under the category of stimulants – they rev the body up, fall into the same class of drugs as, say, cocaine."”

“There was no damage to bones in his chin, neck or midline structures, she said. She found scrapes and bruises on his face, neck, torso and arms, petechiae (small red spots caused by bleeding) in his eyes and damage to his spleen from sickle cell trait.”

Medical examiner says subway madman had drugs in system in Marine vet’s chokehold trial

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's office's last witness against Marine vet Daniel Penny is the medical examiner who conducted Jordan Neely's autopsy.

www.aol.com

First responders didn',t kill him. Jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

Just bouncing off and wanted to also thank you for your work in posting msm updates to the thread. I and am sure others appreciate it very much.

I ask myself if I was being choked/strangled, would I attempt to struggle? I believe so, as there is as you say a panic and survival instinct. I mean, come on, JN was struggling to live until he died. He was not trying to 'escape' in order to wreak violence on others. FGS, believe it or not he is/was the victim of excessive force here. Vulnerable and being slowly choked to death.

<modsnip> I'm sure I read testimony earlier up thread re a witness who said at one point JN (as his wind pipe was cut off, you cannot speak in this situation when your air supply is throttled) was trying to communicate with a nearby person by tapping them? Sad, horrific.

Taking a step back from the case for the time being, it's so disturbing. So just want to again say thank you so much @Izzylizzy for all your work posting! And for your support and care for JN and his grieving family and friends along with others here. Xo I hope there will be some accountability; it's definitely due imo down the road, for the sake of the victim's family and other loved ones. Jmo

Your kind words are greatly appreciated.
It's all we can do is to keep pointing out the evidence and law and why DP was criminally charged.
The thanks though goes to bystanders that film these brutal killings otherwise men who are called gallant for protecting themselves and others with unnecessary lethal force would never be brought to justice.
Thank you again.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Jordan Neely's nephew speaks after seeing photos of his uncle's condition he was in when he was killed and describes the horrors,
Dr. Harris's testimony and footage of Penny in police station claiming that he did not use much force on JB's neck.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Your kind words are greatly appreciated.
It's all we can do is to keep pointing out the evidence and law and why DP was criminally charged.
The thanks though goes to bystanders that film these brutal killings otherwise men who are called gallant for protecting themselves and others with unnecessary lethal force would never be brought to justice.
Thank you again.

I continue to support DP's actions as indeed gallant. I also find it tragically unfortunate that JN died that day.
The two positions do not have to be mutually exclusive.

jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

I continue to support DP's actions as indeed gallant. I also find it tragically unfortunate that JN died that day.
The two positions do not have to be mutually exclusive.

jmo

imo:
Describing JN's death as "tragically unfortunate" does not hold DP responsible for an act he did that was avoidable.

 

[shotgun09]

Daniel Penny is also a victim of the NYC system, IMO.
He is a scapegoat for the failures of the city and the questionable justice department. Instead of owning their own failures, Bragg chose to charge him, and make an example of him. Do not interfere with crime...

MOO and Peace

 

[LinasK]

Daniel Penny is also a victim of the NYC system, IMO.
He is a scapegoat for the failures of the city and the questionable justice department. Instead of owning their own failures, Bragg chose to charge him, and make an example of him. Do not interfere with crime...

MOO and Peace

It hasn't been proven that Neely was out to commit any crime beyond angry ranting. Penny took it upon himself to play vigilante instead of waiting for LE.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Daniel Penny is also a victim of the NYC system, IMO.
He is a scapegoat for the failures of the city and the questionable justice department. Instead of owning their own failures, Bragg chose to charge him, and make an example of him. Do not interfere with crime...

MOO and Peace

When the so-called crimes are verbal rantings and a threat directed at no one in particular and you are unarmed and did not assault anyone then what crime was committed that warranted you being strangled to death for?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think that Jordan Neely was guilty of menacing and Daniel Penny was totally justified in restraining him. JMO.

Menacing is a crime that involves doing something that puts another person in fear of immediate physical injury or death. In other words, instead of actually causing someone physical harm, you threaten to do so. There are four menacing offenses in the New York Penal Code. The least serious is menacing in the third degree. According to New York Penal Code § 120.15 you will face a charge of menacing in the third degree if you do anything that puts another person in reasonable fear of physical injury or death. It is a class B misdemeanor.

NY Penal Law § 120.15: Menacing in the third degree

Free Consultation - Our New York criminal lawyers have a combined 100+ years of legal and law enforcement experience. Our team includes former prosecutors from the District Attorney’s offices in New York City and Long Island, as well as law enforcement professionals. Stephen Bilkis & Associates...

criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Nearly every witness who has testified in the trial of Daniel Penny has said they were afraid of Jordan Neely as he threatened passengers on a New York City subway last year.

“If no one gives him water or food, he’s gonna start putting hands on people,” Sanchez testified. “He was going to start attacking.”

Witness After Witness In Daniel Penny Trial Say They Feared Jordan Neely’s Threats On Subway

Nearly every witness who has testified in the trial of Daniel Penny has said they were afraid of Jordan Neely as he threatened passengers on a New York City subway last year. After Neely allegedly threatened passengers, Penny, a 26-year-old former Marine, placed him in a chokehold to get him to...

www.dailywire.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I think that Jordan Neely was guilty of menacing and Daniel Penny was totally justified in restraining him. JMO.

NY Penal Law § 120.15: Menacing in the third degree

Free Consultation - Our New York criminal lawyers have a combined 100+ years of legal and law enforcement experience. Our team includes former prosecutors from the District Attorney’s offices in New York City and Long Island, as well as law enforcement professionals. Stephen Bilkis & Associates...

criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com

I don't have a problem with him initially restraining him. I do have a problem with him using lethal force in that restraint. Ibhave a problem with him not letting go of his neck once Neely was restrained by two more people. I have a problem with him holding on and applying more pressure when Neely was struggling to breathe and when the train doors opened and the car cleared 30 seconds later, I have a problem with the extra 5 minutes Penny hung on.
I actually think he initially did a good thing in stepping in to try and help, albeit the wrong way, and I don't think he intended to inflict any harm, but i do think he went too far and for too long. Jordan Neely did not have to, nor did he deserve to die that day and whether he meant it or not, Daniel Penny is responsible for that death and he should be held accountable. He made a choice to step in but he also made a choice not to stop once the perceived threat had subsided and he made a choice to ignore people's warnings and pleas to let go. He also made a choice to play his actions down to LE after the incident, which leads me to think he knew he had gone too far or he wouldn't have felt the need to minimise his actions. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't have a problem with him initially restraining him. I do have a problem with him using lethal force in that restraint. Ibhave a problem with him not letting go of his neck once Neely was restrained by two more people. I have a problem with him holding on and applying more pressure when Neely was struggling to breathe and when the train doors opened and the car cleared 30 seconds later, I have a problem with the extra 5 minutes Penny hung on.
I actually think he initially did a good thing in stepping in to try and help, albeit the wrong way, and I don't think he intended to inflict any harm, but i do think he went too far and for too long. Jordan Neely did not have to, nor did he deserve to die that day and whether he meant it or not, Daniel Penny is responsible for that death and he should be held accountable. He made a choice to step in but he also made a choice not to stop once the perceived threat had subsided and he made a choice to ignore people's warnings and pleas to let go. He also made a choice to play his actions down to LE after the incident, which leads me to think he knew he had gone too far or he wouldn't have felt the need to minimise his actions. JMO.

I'm not impressed with the medical examiners testimony.
I have a feeling the defense will put up a good rebuttal witness that will help the jury in making their decision.

How in the world could this ME disregard toxicology? It tells me she made up her mind from watching video and not relying on medical determinations. JMO.

During his cross examination, defense attorney Steven Raiser sought to cast doubt on Harris’ findings by suggesting that she had been influenced by the video of Penny choking Neely.

He also questioned her about why she issued her ruling as to the cause of death before toxicology reports had been completed.

“No toxicological result imaginable was going to change my opinion,” Harris said.

Daniel Penny's chokehold was sole cause of Jordan Neely's death, medical examiner testifies

“It’s my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr. Neely’s death,” the medical examiner, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors Friday.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I'm not impressed with the medical examiners testimony.
I have a feeling the defense will put up a good rebuttal witness that will help the jury in making their decision.

How in the world could this ME disregard toxicology? It tells me she made up her mind from watching video and not relying on medical determinations. JMO.

Daniel Penny's chokehold was sole cause of Jordan Neely's death, medical examiner testifies

“It’s my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr. Neely’s death,” the medical examiner, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors Friday.

www.nbcnews.com

"Dr Harris was a fellow under supervision at the time she performed the autopsy"

Dr Harris presented her case as part of a routine conference with senior medical examiners, including the city's chief, Dr Jason Graham.
" Dr Graham agreed with my assessment"

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

"Dr Harris was a fellow under supervision at the time she performed the autopsy"

Dr Harris presented her case as part of a routine conference with senior medical examiners, including the city's chief, Dr Jason Graham.
" Dr Graham agreed with my assessment"

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

Thanks for the link. So she wasn't very experienced. That's even more troubling. Along with the below. JMO.

Neely had K2 in his system, a synthetic marijuana that’s classified as a stimulant like cocaine.

On cross examination, Dr. Harris conceded some of Neely’s injuries could have been consistent with a struggle and resuscitation efforts.

She also did not wait for genetic testing on Neely’s heart and other tests.

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm not impressed with the medical examiners testimony.
I have a feeling the defense will put up a good rebuttal witness that will help the jury in making their decision.

How in the world could this ME disregard toxicology? It tells me she made up her mind from watching video and not relying on medical determinations. JMO.

Daniel Penny's chokehold was sole cause of Jordan Neely's death, medical examiner testifies

“It’s my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr. Neely’s death,” the medical examiner, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors Friday.

www.nbcnews.com

I've wondered... if the drugs in Neely's system created a type of medical complication that turned the hold fatal. A complication that if it didn't exist, the hold wouldn't have had the same outcome.

Some sort of contributing factor, that no one could have possibly known about. It seems like that would have been a fair question to ask but I haven't seen it addressed yet.

jmo

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Thanks for the link. So she wasn't very experienced. That's even more troubling. Along with the below. JMO.

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

She was supervised and the big boss agreed with her findings. I'm guessing he is pretty experienced!.

I find it hard to consider that JN entered the train car one minute, a raging psycho out for blood (paraphrasing!) and showing no signs of ill health (physically at least) or impending death, and 6 minutes later he is dead on the floor due to asphyxiation and the fact that a fellow passenger had spent those 6 minutes with one arm wrapped round his neck and the other around his head for leverage, was a pure coincidence!. JMO

 

[LinasK]

I've wondered... if the drugs in Neely's system created a type of medical complication that turned the hold fatal. A complication that if it didn't exist, the hold wouldn't have had the same outcome.

Some sort of contributing factor, that no one could have possibly known about. It seems like that would have been a fair question to ask but I haven't seen it addressed yet.

jmo

Doubtful. They tried that same argument with George Floyd.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I have a feeling the K2 synthetic cannabinoid Neely took was a major factor in his death. That stuff is bad. JMO.

Many people experience unpleasant and unpredictable effects and health risks after taking synthetic cannabinoids. This includes: See below.

• inability to move
• dizziness
• breathing difficulties
• chest pain
• heart palpitations
• seizures
• extreme anxiety
• paranoia
• suicidal thoughts
• psychosis
• gastrointestinal issues – like vomiting or diarrhoea
• acute kidney injury

https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/drugs-and-drug-use/common-drugs/synthetic-cannabinoids-spice/

 

[shotgun09]

Synthetic Cannabinoids (K2, Spice)​

A substance often called "fake weed," "K2," and "spice" can cause severe bleeding and possibly death.

Synthetic cannabinoids are not one drug. Hundreds of different synthetic cannabinoid chemicals are manufactured and sprayed on dried plant material or sold as liquids to be inhaled in products like e-cigarettes or other vaping devices. New cannabinoid chemicals with unknown health risks are available each year.

These products are unsafe, and the health effects from using them can be unpredictable, harmful, and even life threatening. The CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) is currently monitoring data across the nation regarding outbreaks.

Synthetic Cannabinoids (K2, Spice)

A substance often called "fake weed," "K2," and "spice" can cause severe bleeding and possibly death.These products are found across the U.S. in convenience stores, gas stations, drug paraphernalia shops, novelty stores, and online.There was one confirmed death in Milwaukee County in 2018.

www.dhs.wisconsin.gov

 

[Deleted member 39678]

She was supervised and the big boss agreed with her findings. I'm guessing he is pretty experienced!.

I find it hard to consider that JN entered the train car one minute, a raging psycho out for blood (paraphrasing!) and showing no signs of ill health (physically at least) or impending death, and 6 minutes later he is dead on the floor due to asphyxiation and the fact that a fellow passenger had spent those 6 minutes with one arm wrapped round his neck and the other around his head for leverage, was a pure coincidence!. JMO

Read my post about the synthetic cannabis that Neely had in his system. It explains things perfectly. JMO.