Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[Deleted member 296739]

IMO:
I expect the defense to call their experts who will throw everything but the kitchen sink to try and convince the jury that yes,JN died, but not at the hands of DP.
It's the same road we've all followed in other trials.
I'm still with DP killed JN by strangulation and the prosecution will make that very clear in closing.

As you and others and the prosecutors are entitled… and there are others of us who are comfortable feeling and believing differently… the D has a right to do what they feel is best for their client.. and unless I’m privy to privileged or inside information- I tend to try and withhold final “judgment” and avoid foreclosure on ideas and opinions… my choice, my opinion only

 

[Izzylizzy]

As you and others and the prosecutors are entitled… and there are others of us who are comfortable feeling and believing differently… the D has a right to do what they feel is best for their client.. and unless I’m privy to privileged or inside information- I tend to try and withhold final “judgment” and avoid foreclosure on ideas and opinions… my choice, my opinion only

I respect that and also your delivery on how you present where you're at.

 

[Izzylizzy]

DP's sister is taking the stand as a "character witness".
IMO:
Which is a feel good for the defense but doesn't change the outcome that JN is dead.


"The defense is basically just going in circles, as what recall just beating around the bush, since 10 am this morning the questions haven't changed in any manner and neither has answers from Miss Harris the medical examiner, Christopher Neely, the victim's uncle, said

Defense attorneys pointed to possible other causations from the medical report like the K2 found in Neely's system, perhaps his mental breakdown created an acute heart condition or a sickle cell trait that might have affected blood flow.

The medical examiner firmly rooted in her findings said that those other things are not probable. She said from the video and her autopsy findings that you can see Neely dying in the 5-minute cell phone video.

Dr. Harris testified how critical the cell phone video was in addition to the autopsy results to determine Neely's cause of death, testifying that "had pressure been released at 3:09 he would have most likely woken up."

more

Prosecution rests in Daniel Penny subway chokehold trial

The defense will now put on its case, calling Daniel Penny's sister from Florida to stand as a character witness.

abc7ny.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

IMO:
Even if JN's sickle cell trait was somehow triggered and this does effect blood flow had he not been deprived of Oxygen for 6 mins.it never would have been triggered that afternoon leading to the lack of oxygen in his system which in return deprives the brain of oxygen leading to a quick brain dead death.

"Defense attorneys pointed to possible other causations from the medical report like the K2 found in Neely's system, perhaps his mental breakdown created an acute heart condition or a sickle cell trait that might have affected blood flow."

Prosecution rests in Daniel Penny subway chokehold trial

The defense will now put on its case, calling Daniel Penny's sister from Florida to stand as a character witness.

abc7ny.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

'Penny's sister and neighbor testified today.
While she painted a picture of a close-knit town and a childhood punctuated with fishing, sports and enduring friendships, she also said their grandparents had been a key source of support to the four Penny siblings when their parents went through a “very difficult” separation during the defendant’s high school years.

She was followed on the witness stand by Alexandra Fay, a childhood neighbor of the family, who spoke of their “typical upbringing” in a Long Island suburb. “He has the same exact friends that he’s had since fifth grade,” she said of Penny.'

'Sister of ex-Marine charged in subway chokehold death testifies to his ‘calm’ spirit and patriotism'​

https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/national/ap-sister-of-ex-marine-charged-in-subway-chokehold-death-testifies-to-his-calm-spirit-and-patriotism/

 

[Cryptic]

"The defense is basically just going in circles, as what recall just beating around the bush, since 10 am this morning....

Wow, evidently 3 million dollars were raised and trial goers are already noting that they are going in circles.

I was expecting that the talents of an All Star team replete with a supporting cast of expert witnesses would have been purchased. I cant help but remember how the All Star and very well funded defense team slam dunked local ordinary Joe prosecutors in the Rittenhouse trial.

'Penny's sister and neighbor testified today.
While she painted a picture of a close-knit town and a childhood punctuated with fishing, sports and enduring friendships,

Yawn.....

That aside, I am thinking that more fire works are going to be needed than the Standard Operating Procedure of: Bring in "He's a good guy" type witnesses.

I mean.... of course he is a good guy- isn't nearly every one? But... why did he ignore assistance and choke they guy for 6 minutes- and continue to choke him all potential third party victims had left?

Maybe these guys going with a slow start. It not, the next question could be: Where did 3 millions dollars go?

 

[Izzylizzy]

IMO:
If this is the defense's defense it still goes back to if DP didn't hold his arm around JN's neck for 6 mins, JN's paranoid schizophrenia,sickle cell trait and any K2 in his system would not have killed him within the 15-20 ish minutes from when he entered the subway car until LE arrived on the scene.

(Harris) "She then brushed off repeated suggestions from the defense that Penny had not applied enough pressure on Neely’s neck. “I believe there is sufficiently consistent pressure to the vital structure of the neck, which led to him losing consciousness and sustaining brain injury,” Harris said.

Manhattan jurors also heard testimony last week from another rider, who said he urged Penny to loosen his grip on Neely’s neck during the fatal encounter, as well as a former martial arts trainer in the U.S. Marines. The trainer said Penny had appeared to misuse a “blood choke” technique that was taught to U.S. Marines as a method to knock a person unconscious.

Jurors were also shown video of Penny demonstrating the chokehold to detectives during an interview inside the precinct.'

https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/national/ap-sister-of-ex-marine-charged-in-subway-chokehold-death-testifies-to-his-calm-spirit-and-patriotism/

 

[Izzylizzy]

Wow, evidently 3 million dollars were raised and trial goers are already noting that they are going in circles.

I was expecting that the talents of an All Star team replete with a supporting cast of expert witnesses would have been purchased. I cant help but remember how the All Star and very well funded defense team slam dunked local ordinary Joe prosecutors in the Rittenhouse trial.


Yawn.....

That aside, I am thinking that more fire works are going to be needed than the Standard Operating Procedure of: Bring in "He's a good guy" type witnesses.

I mean.... of course he is a good guy- isn't nearly every one? But... why did he ignore assistance and choke they guy for 6 minutes- and continue to choke him all potential third party victims had left?

Maybe these guys going with a slow start. It not, the next question could be: Where did 3 millions dollars go?

IMO:
I'm surprised the defense opened with the sister/neighbor character witnesses.
Was it supposed to detract the jury from the videos showing JN being strangled to death?

It's going to be interesting seeing who their experts are and the doozies they claim that are the actual cause(s) of JN's death.
During many trials we have heard what experts charge and were paid to testify.

 

[Izzylizzy]

The info is dripping out.

"Neely had the sickle cell trait. Harris maintains that didn't contribute to or cause his death."

"That chokehold for that amount of time would kill anyone."

K2 in Neely's system​

"Defense attorneys pressed about synthetic cannabinoids in Neely's system, otherwise known as the drug K2. Harris said of the 10,000 overdoses in New York City, seven were due to synthetic marijuana, and all of those people had abnormal hearts. Neely had a normal heart, she said.

Harris also testified there's no way to know how much K2 was in his system, and that synthetic cannabinoids are relatively new, and not a well understood class of drugs."

Prosecution rests in trial of Daniel Penny, accused in NYC subway chokehold death

Prosecutors rested their case Monday in the trial of Daniel Penny, the Marine veteran charged in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on board a subway train last year.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Drip,drip,drip.

"Penny’s lawyers spent most of Monday trying to poke holes in Harris’ finding, which she said she made after reviewing viral video of the fatal May 1, 2023 encounter shot by a journalist who had witnessed the confrontation on the Manhattan F train.

Near the end of her time on the stand, Penny lawyer Steven Raiser raised his voice while questioning why Harris decided Neely’s cause of death before receiving a toxicology report, which found that he had the K2 synthetic cannabis in his system.

“Yeah, but I’ve also made a determination when someone’s been shot in the head that their cause of death was that they were shot in the head,” Harris quipped back.

“I wouldn’t wait for the toxicology results to determine that.”

Daniel Penny’s sister, childhood friend describe embattled Marine as ‘kind’ and ‘peaceful’ at subway chokehold trial

Daniel Penny’s sister and childhood friend pleaded his case to jurors at his manslaughter trial — describing the former Marine as a “calm and peaceful” surfing buff who earned a r…

nypost.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

We knew this was coming.
The "outside forces" accusation.


"Raiser also questioned her credentials, whether she and the city’s medical examiner’s office had been influenced by outside forces and whether she had provided evidence that Penny applied pressure for a length of time sufficient to cause Neely’s death.

Again and again, Harris answered that she believed the chokehold was the most probable cause of Neely’s death. Raiser also told her that she could not definitively say how much pressure Penny was applying to Neely’s neck based solely on the bystander video she reviewed, which helped the case gain national attention. Harris testified Friday that she based her ruling on her autopsy findings, coupled with the video and the investigative information about it.

In response to a question from prosecutors under redirect, Harris testified that it was “highly improbable” that Neely could have died from another cause, including synthetic cannabinoids.

“There’s a saying in our office that when something is so improbable, it stands shoulder to shoulder with impossibility,” Harris said."

Prosecution rests, defense calls first witnesses in trial of man accused in chokehold death on NYC subway

Daniel Penny is charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide in the May 2023 killing of Jordan Neely.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The info is dripping out.

"Neely had the sickle cell trait. Harris maintains that didn't contribute to or cause his death."

"That chokehold for that amount of time would kill anyone."

K2 in Neely's system​

"Defense attorneys pressed about synthetic cannabinoids in Neely's system, otherwise known as the drug K2. Harris said of the 10,000 overdoses in New York City, seven were due to synthetic marijuana, and all of those people had abnormal hearts. Neely had a normal heart, she said.

Harris also testified there's no way to know how much K2 was in his system, and that synthetic cannabinoids are relatively new, and not a well understood class of drugs."

Prosecution rests in trial of Daniel Penny, accused in NYC subway chokehold death

Prosecutors rested their case Monday in the trial of Daniel Penny, the Marine veteran charged in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on board a subway train last year.

www.cbsnews.com

So the ME states that K2 is not a well understood drug but she's certain it had no factor in Neely's death.

Interesting. JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

So the ME states that K2 is not a well understood drug but she's certain it had no factor in Neely's death.

Interesting. JMO.

Yep, that's a hard one to ignore.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

So the ME states that K2 is not a well understood drug but she's certain it had no factor in Neely's death.

Interesting. JMO.

She’s the same one who said she didn’t wait for the tox report because she did need it or something to that effect? Right?

 

[Cryptic]

I'm surprised the defense opened with the sister/neighbor character witnesses.
Was it supposed to detract the jury from the videos showing JN being strangled to death?

That is a very good point. I think your idea of the need for a break between the strangulation videos and the need to contest the medical findings could well be right

 

[Deleted member 39678]

She’s the same one who said she didn’t wait for the tox report because she did need it or something to that effect? Right?

I guess the toxicology report is meaningless if you are going to ignore the results it contains. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I guess the toxicology report is meaningless if you are going to ignore the results it contains. JMO.

Good point … moo

 

[LinasK]

This statement really stands out to me:

NYPD Sgt. Carl Johnson was asked by Manhattan ADA Dafna Yoran why officers opted to use Narcan on Jordan Neely.
“He was an apparent drug user and he was very dirty," Johnson testified. "I didn’t want my officers to put their lips on his mouth. They could get hepatitis or AIDS ... chest compressions would be enough to get him awake.” Daniel Penny trial live updates from Nov. 1

Obviously I can't say for certain but maybe he wasn't the only one thinking along those lines & those that could have rendered aid didn't want to get too close?

So what? Then as IceIce said, you do Chest Compressions. You don't do nothing because the victim was "dirty". Even bloody/dirty people deserve medical care no matter what cause them to become that way.

 

[LinasK]

I once saw a homeless man on a corner screaming for help. He was in a wheelchair. I quickly wheeled him into the lobby of the hotel where we were staying, yelling for the staff to call "911". It was about 20° outside. I clearly thought I was saving his life.

The staff moved slowly and nonchalantly. The EMS arrived, rolled their eyes, and put him on a stretcher slowly, not doing any checks on his condition. Apparently, he was a "regular" on that particular corner.

Who knew? I thought he was going to die, and I was "rescuing" him.

I still think about that, I was so into "rescue" mode. And they were just doing their "job", another day, another homeless guy.

I wonder if EMS gets very tired of "saving" street people, to the point that they dehumanize them.

Well I for one thank you for your efforts. Even IF he was a regular, maybe this time he needed medical attention and wasn't crying wolf.

 

[LinasK]

IMO:
I'm surprised the defense opened with the sister/neighbor character witnesses.
Was it supposed to detract the jury from the videos showing JN being strangled to death?

It's going to be interesting seeing who their experts are and the doozies they claim that are the actual cause(s) of JN's death.
During many trials we have heard what experts charge and were paid to testify.

Yeah, I'd have saved her for a mitigating witness in the sentencing phase. He may have been a "good guy" up until the moment he decided it was a good idea to put Neely in a choke hold and keep him there. Those actions negate him being a good guy.