Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

[IceIce9]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

Family members often care for advanced dementia patients at home. She was much younger than him, so fully capable of caring for him. No way to have known she would suddenly become ill and die, leaving him alone.

 

[priyaya]

Family members often care for advanced dementia patients at home. She was much younger than him, so fully capable of caring for him. No way to have known she would suddenly become ill and die, leaving him alone.

But there would be a case where someone no matter how healthy could care without anyone checking in for that long?

 

[IceIce9]

Unbelievable that some in social media are not accepting this and are thinking it is a coverup or conspiracy.

JMO

 

[priyaya]

Unbelievable that some in social media are not accepting this and are thinking it is a coverup or conspiracy.

JMO

The British tabloid headlines are also horrendous

 

[Cherwell]

Here is a transcript of the press conference.
Well worth reading through carefully. A pity that some media reporters have clearly failed to do so.

https://turboscribe.ai/transcript/share/4980981187887858464/36FWZhd5l3_dwbhcUFWaBXevd-hLrekSeP3lRkE-A6E/see-officials-provide-an-update-on-gene-hackman-and-wifes-death-investigation

 

[IceIce9]

Bu there would be a case where someone no matter how healthy could care without anyone checking in for that long?

Yes. Maybe he had doctor appointments once every 2-3 months, and if he had missed an appointment the doctor’s office would have called to reschedule or check on things.

But since she was young and healthy they would have thought him in good hands.

I’ve made calls to homes where a 90 year old spouse who walked with a walker or cane was caring for a bedridden spouse. Many such similar situations just in my experience. One elderly spouse caring for the other.

Some people have no other family to help and can’t afford other care.

Obviously in this case they could have afforded 24 hour home nursing care but they probably liked their privacy, and she was able to care for him until she suddenly got sick.

In Gene’s case his daughter said they were “close” but hadn’t spoken to him for a few months. Maybe she visited once every several months and he had declined rapidly since her last visit.

 

[SMK777]

If she did die on the 11th, and he stayed in the house with her body for a week, which the timeline seems to at least indicate, it's left to imagine that he had to have been eating or at least drinking, using the restroom, etc.

Very difficult to ascertain if he was aware of her and the dog, or what he understood the situation to be. In his state and not alerting anyone it seems he was unaware.

Was it reported that he was not dehydrated?
ETA: Just saw no evidence of dehydration and no food in his stomach.

Incredibly sad for both of them, and their dog.

 

[priyaya]

Was it reported that he was not dedehydrated

Medical examiner reported on press conference yesterday
She didn't rule out food but said there wasn't anything eaten recently

 

[Cherwell]

If she did die on the 11th, and he stayed in the house with her body for a week, which the timeline seems to at least indicate, it's left to imagine that he had to have been eating or at least drinking, using the restroom, etc.

Very difficult to ascertain if he was aware of her and the dog, or what he understood the situation to be.

Was it reported that he was not dehydrated?

Incredibly sad for both of them, and their dog.

I think it's highly unlikely that Betsy died on the 11th, and at no point was this stated. She was out and about on the 11th and apparently well.

Question
Was there any indication that she was feeling shortness of breath?
Sheriff Adan Mendoza
You know, we can analyze the video a little more, but it's going to be hard to tell. She was walking around. She was shopping. She was visiting stores, but my detectives didn't indicate that there was any problem with her or struggle of her getting around. So, and I believe she had a mask on also, so I'll have to confirm that, but yeah, that there wasn't any indication of that.

Dr. Heather Jarrell
The question was regarding shortness of breath with Hantavirus, and what kind of medical episode would we expect from somebody found on the floor? And I think to be able to answer that question fairly, it can go back to Hantavirus infection, which initiates with what's called a prodromal phase. That's initially flu-like symptoms, where a person has fever and muscle aches, they don't feel well, after of course being exposed to rodent excrement, and that phase can last roughly three to six days, and then they can transition to that pulmonary phase where they have fluid in their lungs and around their lungs, and at that point a person can die very quickly within 24 to 48 hours, roughly speaking, without medical treatment. It's not uncommon to find someone down on the floor as part of a terminal collapse, so to speak, and that may very well have been what happened to Ms. Hackman.

Question
You're estimating her time of death on the 11th, or is it possible that she collapsed and was alive for a couple of days?
Dr. Heather Jarrell
It's hard to say. I don't think she was on the floor alive for a couple of days. I think that she went through that time period, and I don't know when she began to feel ill, and those are just things that I don't know that I'm ever going to have the answers to, but I think going back to that initial time period, roughly three to six days of feeling ill, and then succumbing pretty quickly after fluid begins to build up in the lungs.

https://turboscribe.ai/transcript/share/4980981187887858464/36FWZhd5l3_dwbhcUFWaBXevd-hLrekSeP3lRkE-A6E/see-officials-provide-an-update-on-gene-hackman-and-wifes-death-investigation

 

[SortaSleuthy]

The ME really didn't stick firmly to that, did she.

Exactly! I think Gene discovered her body and had a heart attack shortly thereafter.

 

[priyaya]

I think it's highly unlikely that Betsy died on the 11th, and at no point was this stated. She was out and about on the 11th and apparently well.

Question
Was there any indication that she was feeling shortness of breath?
Sheriff Adan Mendoza
You know, we can analyze the video a little more, but it's going to be hard to tell. She was walking around. She was shopping. She was visiting stores, but my detectives didn't indicate that there was any problem with her or struggle of her getting around. So, and I believe she had a mask on also, so I'll have to confirm that, but yeah, that there wasn't any indication of that.

Dr. Heather Jarrell
The question was regarding shortness of breath with Hantavirus, and what kind of medical episode would we expect from somebody found on the floor? And I think to be able to answer that question fairly, it can go back to Hantavirus infection, which initiates with what's called a prodromal phase. That's initially flu-like symptoms, where a person has fever and muscle aches, they don't feel well, after of course being exposed to rodent excrement, and that phase can last roughly three to six days, and then they can transition to that pulmonary phase where they have fluid in their lungs and around their lungs, and at that point a person can die very quickly within 24 to 48 hours, roughly speaking, without medical treatment. It's not uncommon to find someone down on the floor as part of a terminal collapse, so to speak, and that may very well have been what happened to Ms. Hackman.

Question
You're estimating her time of death on the 11th, or is it possible that she collapsed and was alive for a couple of days?
Dr. Heather Jarrell
It's hard to say. I don't think she was on the floor alive for a couple of days. I think that she went through that time period, and I don't know when she began to feel ill, and those are just things that I don't know that I'm ever going to have the answers to, but I think going back to that initial time period, roughly three to six days of feeling ill, and then succumbing pretty quickly after fluid begins to build up in the lungs.

https://turboscribe.ai/transcript/share/4980981187887858464/36FWZhd5l3_dwbhcUFWaBXevd-hLrekSeP3lRkE-A6E/see-officials-provide-an-update-on-gene-hackman-and-wifes-death-investigation

If we knew when the dog died
That would answer the question

 

[SortaSleuthy]

So how long would he have had alzheimers before it was advanced? Wish a reliable expert could weigh in. I genuinely have questions because I know people in their situation
I fear becky may not have known how advanced his disease was
Was he even seeing a medical professionali assume she would have experienced the onset, but maybe it was just that quick or she was too overwhelmed to notice how bad it was. No sane person would take that challenge on without professional help.

My wife was diagnosed with Altz. 8 years ago and just went into the final stage.

 

[NuttMegg]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

We're tuned into this only because he was so famous, and chose to have such a non- Hollywood life.

People are dying all the time, isolated, with some 40 million Americans without access to health care. Under bridges, alone in little houses. Medicated for easier management in retirement homes. In Alaska, a so-so asst living costs $8,500. Per month. And that's for ambulatory patients who don't need to be accompanied or nursed.

Look at Margaux Hemingway, they never could pinpoint exactly when she died, she was so decomposed. Ernest Hemingway's GD who could have afforded the best and she was young.

I don"t think old age situations in the USA are as strictly regulated with medical teams, designated caregivers as you allude to. Ie Not allowing non-medical professionals to care for ALZ patients.

The fact is, money talks, no medical team is going to insist on a certain medical care for wealthy patients. Who was designated caregiver for clearly deteriorating Michael Jackson? No one.

Hackman's grown children did not seem to assess him the way some of us are doing. We really don't know how bad his cognition was.

Maybe encountering his wife dead pushed him over the brink. With dementia patients routine is so important.

I'm going to remain as a fan of his acting, with admiration for their life style. And I'm happy he didn't end in hospice with strangers checking him for bedsores.

 

[Sadi]

I'm curious about the pest control appointment.
It had been posted that it was a routine visit which means there's a somewhat set schedule throughout the year for maintenance.
Was it routine or did BA call in the pest control guy and made the appointment for that day?
If so did she know there was a mouse problem in her home and when was the appointment made?
I know that Mandoza said there was no mouse evidence in her home but I have mixed feelings that if there was we would be told about it.
On top of everything else the synchronicity here of Leonard ,the pest control worker discovering BA's body and now finding out she passed from Hantavirus is more like a story line from a book then the unfolding of a real life event.
IMO:

I’ve been wondering about this too. If inside the main living space is where the mice had been, how did Gene not get sick? Droppings can be on counter tops, couch, pretty much anywhere. Two years ago we celebrated our 15th wedding anniversary and stayed at a beautiful cabin in Sedona, Arizona. Since Covid, they stopped serving dinner in the main dining room and instead delivered dinner to your cabin or you could sit outside in a few areas they provided. We did that because we never wanted to eat in the cabin, it didn’t have a sink or kitchen set up etc. We woke up in the middle of the night to things clanking around. My husband turned on the lights and we saw several mice on the floor, table and furniture. One was huge and had a long tail, it was a rat! He grabbed the small broom from the fireplace to swat them and I pulled the covers tightly around my head, freaking out! I didn’t sleep and when we got up, our bed was covered in mice poop. I went to the front desk to let them know about this and they said the exterminator is located in Phoenix and they would call to schedule a time soon for him to get out there. No way we could stay there after that experience and left. Not a good way to spend our anniversary, but it was out of our control. I still shiver when I think about it.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

but she said he wasnt dehydrated, so does that mean he could have been eating before?
how long does it take for your stomach to empty? or he must have been drinking something?

Overnight.

 

[Sadi]

My wife was diagnosed with Altz. 8 years ago and just went into the final stage.

This must be very difficult for you, I hope you have help and support.

 

[Megnut]

It's possible she was starting to feel unwell, quickly ran some errands to stock the pantry, quit texting/emailing on the 11th and by morning was feeling really unwell... a day or two or three hugging the bathroom before dying anywhere from 2/12 to 2/14 or /15 even. Which would leave him alone for a shorter span but long enough with no evidence of eating, likely no meds, and that exacerbated his heart issues leading to cardiac arrest. He might not have known he was hungry or what to do about it, didn't know to take his meds, and the utter disruption to his daily care resulted in his death.

So sad all around.

JMO

 

[priyaya]

The fact is, money talks, no medical team is going to insist on a certain medical care for wealthy patients. Who was designated caregiver for clearly deteriorating Michael Jackson? No one.

Sadly this is correct.
All the programs I am thinking of from experience are Medicare/Medicaid related

Private Healthcare is a luxury and absolutely a way to get around it

 

[NuttMegg]

It's possible she was starting to feel unwell, quickly ran some errands to stock the pantry, quit texting/emailing on the 11th and by morning was feeling really unwell... a day or two or three hugging the bathroom before dying anywhere from 2/12 to 2/14 or /15 even. Which would leave him alone for a shorter span but long enough with no evidence of eating, likely no meds, and that exacerbated his heart issues leading to cardiac arrest. He might not have known he was hungry or what to do about it, didn't know to take his meds, and the utter disruption to his daily care resulted in his death.

So sad all around.

JMO

I can buy all of that. She lasted a few days longer than the 11th, and he, imo, fell on the 17th or earlier, depending on the dehydration they said was not present. As I mentioned a few minutes ago. He could have gone over the edge at finding her.

 

[priyaya]

It's possible she was starting to feel unwell, quickly ran some errands to stock the pantry, quit texting/emailing on the 11th and by morning was feeling really unwell... a day or two or three hugging the bathroom before dying anywhere from 2/12 to 2/14 or /15 even. Which would leave him alone for a shorter span but long enough with no evidence of eating, likely no meds, and that exacerbated his heart issues leading to cardiac arrest. He might not have known he was hungry or what to do about it, didn't know to take his meds, and the utter disruption to his daily care resulted in his death.

So sad all around.

JMO

Yes I guess point is regardless of beckys actual day of death, she deteriorated to rhe point she couldn't even care for gene even if she was alive. Most likely she had a fever and was unconscious before the end