NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[Tiff23fr]

Still trying to refine the timeline details - a work in progress. Here's an updated timeline entirely based on links provided at this website. Please feel free to make corrections/ updates.

childhood - spondylolisthesis diagnosis
?? Nov-Dec 2021 - moved into Surfbreak remote workers community? (moved out after 6 months)
2022 - Surfbreak co-living community, Honolulu, active in daily sports
Jan 2022 - sciatica, beginner surfing lesson injury, one week in bed
Feb 2022 - slipped on piece of paper, right glute locked and right leg shut down for a week, leg couldn't support weight
Mar 2022 - nerve pain issues, experienced pain off and on
April 2022 - left Surfbreak community due to a lifelong back injury exacerbated by physical activity on the island, left the community to seek medical treatment on the East Coast
?? - living in San Fransisco?
Jan 2023 - returned to Hawaii "briefly in early 2023", co-started a book club, several members left due to discomfort in book choices (Unabomber manifesto)
June 2023 - lost his job with TrueCar
July 2023 - experienced another injury, went to hospital
July 2023 - had spinal fusion surgery on East Coast
August 2023 - claimed surgery was successful 8 days post-surgery
?? Japan, perhaps looking for work?
November-December 2023 - Hawaii, visiting Maui, Big Island, Oahu
December 2023 - returned to Baltimore to see his family.
February 2024 - Mangione said the surgery came "after 1.5 years of failed conservative treatment." (Jan 2022-July 2023)
Early 2024 - Mangione traveled to Asia for several months
April 2024 - Thailand
May 2024 - after 10 months of recommending back surgery, he went silent
?? - San Francisco?
July 2024 - began forming murder plan, stopped talking to friends and family
Nov 2024 - reported missing in San Francisco.
Dec 2024 - shoots a stranger in the back

Thank you Otto
One additional Claimed Sighting placing him back in HI post July.(Video in Article)

Kwock says that he lived next to Mangione in their building in Honolulu. He said he last saw his neighbor about three or four months ago.

Luigi Mangione's neighbor in Hawaii reacts

A Hawaii neighbor of Luigi Mangione's said he is shocked to find out he is the man suspecting of killing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

kyma.com

 

[BrianJohnson]

He was never a UHC customer nor was his mum, if they had had a bad experience then the killing of the CEO of the company involved makes more of an excuse (not that there is one)/might gain a little sympathy to try in court but BT/UHC has made no difference to his life or that of his mum

 

[bestill]

It appeared that many inmates had cable TV in their rooms.

I'm in Texas, where the only TV is in a dayroom and controlled by the jail staff.

OM! When I first read this I thought you were saying that you are an inmate in Texas, LOL. I'm like we have a WS member that is actively posting and is an inmate, wow!

 

[Friday Fan]

Glad to see that Manhattan's Mental Health Court does not apply to defendants who have been charged with violent felonies, nor to defendants who have charges involving use of firearms. So no chance for LM to participate in that. His new attorney's bio says that she was part of setting up Manhattan's Mental Health Court, but it won't apply to LM, good to know.

This is a dedicated court part designed to provide a comprehensive system of oversight and treatment to eligible defendants with mental illness.

Defendants charged with non-violent felony offenses are eligible for MMHC. That Court will not consider defendants charged with crimes involving sex offenses or firearms.

https://ww2.nycourts.gov/courts/1jd/criminal/mentalhealthcourt.shtml

We have something similar here. It's mostly DUIs, drug possession type cases etc. It's more or less a "second chance" court. Most defendants end up on probation as Texas jails and prisons are not the best facilities for mental health issues. Most require outpatient type treatment and participation in community based program.

Now New York may have better inmate rehab programs, but I assume the mental health court would also be rehab oriented and probably geared towards those eligible for probation or inmates serving short sentences. I really don't think LM would come close to becoming eligible for a community oriented court.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

OM! When I first read this I thought you were saying that you are an inmate in Texas, LOL. I'm like we have a WS member that is actively posting and is an inmate, wow!

That would certainly be an interesting group of people to hear from!

 

[otto]

What I notice is that he was partaking in friendship via friend group/living arrangements. He was once in that Honolulu housing where there was a kind of collective living arrangement. IOW, he was in college in the same kind of collective living arrangement, then graduated, and became a kind of wanderer (Stanford; San Francisco; Honolulu - 2 different places; travel to Japan and other parts of Asia).

Initial connections with people can be the result of a charming personality that can mask, as one of his "pals" put it: "darkness."

Then, he appears to have ghosted all of those friend groups (and no word on whether he dated that Tinder yoga instructor more than once - or even at all, they simply matched on Tinder and it looks like maybe he started taking lessons? Paying for lessons?) Ghosts his family too.

So, while he "connects" well, he seems to be in constant motion, friend and family-wise. No longterm romantic relationships that we know of. No best friend from college coming forward with more than the most superficial accounts of who he was.

I say this because in work inside mental hospitals, it's quite common for most of the patients to "connect" well with a new person - this is something they've learned to do. This does not mean that the patients are in a normal state of mind. Indeed, moving from place to place or from friend group to friend group can be a way of remaining social while avoiding what I'd call more intimate relationships (I don't mean in the sexual sense).

He apparently talked quite a bit about his pain situation within some of these groups. So people were concerned about him. I just find it interesting that he basically chose a path that emphasized his medical fragility/pain and that lots of people knew about it and wanted to help/support him.

I'd like to see some evidence that he had regular, longterm friendships that were based on mutual interests and personalities, as opposed to his (perhaps) relying on his medical situation to connect to others. He had several different "issues" that he was using to connect to people on reddit (visual snow was one of them, which surprised me). Lyme's disease, spondy, visual snow, possible use of pain meds, surgery. That's a lot for a 26 year old. He obviously also had his good lucks and intelligence, but I'm surprised that he cut off his Honolulu friend group, traveled to meet up with various groups of friendly fellow-travelers or local inhabitants. Those are transient type relationships. Maybe his overall pain situation (and perception of his own sexual dysfunction) made it hard for him to maintain what I would call "best friends" or a significant other.

IMO. Maybe he didn't want to be a burden to people - we haven't heard about that, one way or another.

Interesting observation. When looking at his timeline, it's clear that he has lived a nomadic remote-worker lifestyle from 2021/2 until the murder. He has no long term lease or rental responsibility - no roots. He rents for a few months, moves on, travels and so on.

I wonder whether that nomadic lifestyle contributed to his mental deterioration. There was no continuity in any part of his life other than his job. When he lost his job in June 2023, he may have been unsuccessful in finding other employment, or he may have received a severance that he chose to use for travel and adventure lifestyle.

He had nothing that anchored him in life, nothing where he had to be accountable, no real responsibility to anyone or anything.

That's not to say that everyone who lives nomadic can go off the rails, but that disconnected lifestyle may be a factor in Mangione spiraling into obsessive thoughts about the insurance industry.

 

[crhedBngr]

Welcome to our New Posters!


JMVHO.

 

[ttjo]

Something happened that impacted him in a significant way and caused a major change in his personality. Suddenly, he was isolated from all of his friends & family, getting lost in distorted ways of thinking, thinking it was the right thing to plan and commit a horrific murder, etc. All just my opinion.

I bet it was more gradual but progressed quickly, especially if you isolate and don't have anyone watching or noticing.
If he has distorted thinking, his ability to make the right decision is impaired.
This may be a strategy for his defence.
Someone here with more knowledge could probably explain it better.

 

[JDG]

If he was using/abusing psychedelics/shrooms he could have negatively affected his thinking.

Nothing confirmed as of yet.

 

[CityKid]

I'm curious about the defence strategy. If the theory is that he took pain medication and it altered his mind such that he could no longer think straight, it all falls apart if he was experimenting with soft or illegal drugs at the same time. That is, no one can know whether something like magic mushrooms, or prescription drugs, altered his ability to think clearly.

I think he would have to demonstrate that pain medication has the ability to enhance meticulous planning while simultaneously causing "brain fog" and dystopian or murderous thoughts.

Mangione's use of the term "brain fog" gets my attention. It's a common term associated with concussion. An example is being unable to find words when speaking. He has foggy thinking, but he's high school valedictorian and he completed two degrees in 4 years? That's rather remarkable for someone who has foggy thinking.

If the fog happened between roughly Jan 2022, when he overdid it surfing, and July 2023, when he cut contact with family and friends, how does he explain the positive experience he had travelling around Asia between roughly Jan 2023 and April 2024?

He seems to have two modes. One is gregariously pushing himself in sports - which he should know will aggravate his disability. The other is anger because he experienced pain after aggravating his disability.

Brain fog is also associated with Lyme disease.

Is Lyme Disease Associated Brain Fog Real? : Johns Hopkins Lyme Disease Research Center

Yes, Advanced Brain Imaging Shows Lyme Disease Brain Fog is Real! Lyme-disease-associated persistent symptoms include severe fatigue, pain, and cognitive problems. These symptoms can be impairing and yet difficult to […]

www.hopkinslyme.org

 

[ttjo]

Still trying to refine the timeline details - a work in progress. Here's an updated timeline entirely based on links provided at this website. Please feel free to make corrections/ updates.


2022 - Surfbreak co-living community, Honolulu, active in daily sports
Jan 2022 - sciatica, beginner surfing lesson injury, one week in bed
Feb 2022 - slipped on piece of paper, right glute locked and right leg shut down for a week, leg couldn't support weight
Mar 2022 - nerve pain issues, experienced pain off and on
April 2022 - left Surfbreak community due to a lifelong back injury exacerbated by physical activity on the island, left the community to seek medical treatment on the East Coast

Mangione, 26, lived at Surfbreak from January to June 2022, said R.J. Martin, Surfbreak’s founder. His island friends stopped hearing from him this summer.

?? - living in San Fransisco?
Jan 2023 - returned to Hawaii "briefly in early 2023",

Ive read it in a few articles but heres one source:

Luigi Mangione's Hawaiʻi Friends Shocked By Arrest In UnitedHealthcare CEO Shooting - Honolulu Civil Beat

Luigi Mangione lived at the Surfbreak co-living community near Ala Moana Park on Oʻahu. He was arrested Monday in Pennsylvania, five days after the shooting of an insurance executive.

www.civilbeat.org

 

[otto]

I bet it was more gradual but progressed quickly, especially if you isolate and don't have anyone watching or noticing.
If he has distorted thinking, his ability to make the right decision is impaired.
This may be a strategy for his defence.
Someone here with more knowledge could probably explain it better.

The only thing that makes sense in terms of triggering event is that he experienced more back pain after his travels in Asia (May 2024). I believe that he had unrealistic expectations of back fusion surgery; expecting to be fully restored to pre-injury condition. That is unrealistic. Surgery repairs, but does not restore.

In fact, given some of his reading choices, I wonder whether he really needed the surgery, or whether he faked some symptoms to get the surgery (e.g.: presenting symptom of involuntary urination).

It's all distorted thinking - from expecting surgery to restore health, to obsessing that the largest health insurance company dictated standards that led to what he deemed unsatisfactory care.

When he continued to experience post-surgical pain, and perhaps numbness or tingling, he must have decided that he received sub-standard surgery, and that better insurance would have given him a better result. That's also incorrect thinking.

I don't think that distorted thinking is a reasonable defence, particularly when it ends with murder, since there is no certainty that it won't happen again.

 

[Tiff23fr]

According to her online biography, Friedman Agnifilo, a graduate of the University of Californiaand a 1992 graduate of Georgetown University Law Center, worked at the New York City office for seven years under then-District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. While there, she played "a critical leadership role in prosecuting high-profile violent crime cases, including complex cases involving a mental health component, as well as cold case homicides."

Who is Karen Friedman Agnifilo? Luigi Mangione hires new lawyer

Mangione has hired the Manhattan lawyer to represent him in New York amid the deadly shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.newsweek.com

 

[otto]

Brain fog is also associated with Lyme disease.

Is Lyme Disease Associated Brain Fog Real? : Johns Hopkins Lyme Disease Research Center

Yes, Advanced Brain Imaging Shows Lyme Disease Brain Fog is Real! Lyme-disease-associated persistent symptoms include severe fatigue, pain, and cognitive problems. These symptoms can be impairing and yet difficult to […]

www.hopkinslyme.org

The question of whether he had Lyme disease is unanswered. Some reports say he had it, other reports say that he was tested in his teens and he did not have it.

 

[10ofRods]

Interesting observation. When looking at his timeline, it's clear that he has lived a nomadic remote-worker lifestyle from 2021/2 until the murder. He has no long term lease or rental responsibility - no roots. He rents for a few months, moves on, travels and so on.

I wonder whether that nomadic lifestyle contributed to his mental deterioration. There was no continuity in any part of his life other than his job. When he lost his job in June 2023, he may have been unsuccessful in finding other employment, or he may have received a severance that he chose to use for travel and adventure lifestyle.

He had nothing that anchored him in life, nothing where he had to be accountable, no real responsibility to anyone or anything.

That's not to say that everyone who lives nomadic can go off the rails, but that disconnected lifestyle may be a factor in Mangione spiraling into obsessive thoughts about the insurance industry.

This is so well put, Otto. Thank you. That's exactly what I was thinking (and trying to express in typed words).

I am sure that for some people, the constant transition among various cultures, worry about unemployment, etc. might not cause anxiety or mental derailment, but for a lot of people it would.

It's almost as if, after disconnecting himself from his ordinary life (living far away from parents, then living alone in HI, traveling more or less alone, as far as we know), he somehow found himself "plugged into" his own private cause. Something to give him an anchor and purpose (from his point of view).

 

[Rumination1]

His mom?

No I doubt it
Some girl with a grudge against united??

 

[otto]

Mangione, 26, lived at Surfbreak from January to June 2022, said R.J. Martin, Surfbreak’s founder. His island friends stopped hearing from him this summer.

Ive read it in a few articles but heres one source:

Luigi Mangione's Hawaiʻi Friends Shocked By Arrest In UnitedHealthcare CEO Shooting - Honolulu Civil Beat

Luigi Mangione lived at the Surfbreak co-living community near Ala Moana Park on Oʻahu. He was arrested Monday in Pennsylvania, five days after the shooting of an insurance executive.

www.civilbeat.org

Two different people who lived at Surfbreak have different recollections about when he left the community.

"Sarah Nehemiah, who knew Mangione during his time at Surfbreak, said he left the community in April 2022 due to a lifelong back injury exacerbated by physical activity on the island. According to posts on his Reddit account, Mangione's back pain had been persistent for several years and worsened after surfing in Hawaii in 2022. Nehemiah and other members of the Surfbreak community "lost contact" with Mangione "after he left," she said. "

What we know about Luigi Mangione, suspect charged in UnitedHealthcare CEO's killing

Luigi Mangione is charged with murder in the deadly shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[ttjo]

This article above says they hung out at a place called magic island, which is not far from where he lived and where Ala Moana Beach is.

You can also take surf lessons there . Take a look, in case anyone thinks where he took lessons were like the waves on the north shore. Surf HNL - Waikiki Surfing Lessons at Ala Moana Beach tours, activities, fun things to do in Oahu(Hawaii)｜VELTRA

 

[Friday Fan]

The only thing that makes sense in terms of triggering event is that he experienced more back pain after his travels in Asia (May 2024). I believe that he had unrealistic expectations of back fusion surgery; expecting to be fully restored to pre-injury condition. That is unrealistic. Surgery repairs, but does not restore.

In fact, given some of his reading choices, I wonder whether he really needed the surgery, or whether he faked some symptoms to get the surgery (e.g.: presenting symptom of involuntary urination).

It's all distorted thinking - from expecting surgery to restore health, to obsessing that the largest health insurance company dictated standards that led to what he deemed unsatisfactory care.

When he continued to experience post-surgical pain, and perhaps numbness or tingling, he must have decided that he received sub-standard surgery, and that better insurance would have given him a better result. That's also incorrect thinking.

I don't think that distorted thinking is a reasonable defence, particularly when it ends with murder, since there is no certainty that it won't happen again.

Based on his post that he think the surgery "worked", the odds are that he needed the surgery. It's kinda like after a root canal, "Yeah it worked". Now most people who get spinal surgery don't know that quickly because most are older and their conditions are much more complicated. In his case, it must have relieved or had a reduction in some specific pain. (Like when your mouth is super sore from all the trauma, but that darn nerve stopped firing)

He had an actual structural condition. He was also young and probably did not have other contributing factors that would hinder short term success. (Arthritis, degenerative spinal changes, osteoporosis etc) Degenerative spinal changes are probably the most common cause of back pain and are complicated to fix.

However, "worked" does not mean painfree. It does not mean alot of things. But I tend to think he needed the surgery.

However, all spinal fusions require adherence to a rigorous post op physical therapy program. I don't see documentation that he participated, but I also don't see documentation that he didn't participate.

Based on his writing post-op, he seemed like he would be motivated. (That's MOO)

Being pain free after a spinal fusion is rare. In the cases of structural issues, such as reduced pain and even significantly reduced and improved nerve function is a realistic goal.

 

[ttjo]

Two different people who lived at Surfbreak have different recollections about when he left the community.

"Sarah Nehemiah, who knew Mangione during his time at Surfbreak, said he left the community in April 2022 due to a lifelong back injury exacerbated by physical activity on the island. According to posts on his Reddit account, Mangione's back pain had been persistent for several years and worsened after surfing in Hawaii in 2022. Nehemiah and other members of the Surfbreak community "lost contact" with Mangione "after he left," she said. "

What we know about Luigi Mangione, suspect charged in UnitedHealthcare CEO's killing

Luigi Mangione is charged with murder in the deadly shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.cbsnews.com

Dont you hate that , when you just want the facts. who do you believe? RJ Martin is the one who's been doing interviews, but I cant remember if ( in the interviews) he says the dates Luigi was there? I will look.