NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[arielilane]

@NYPDnews
https://x.com/NYPDnews


1:10 PM · Dec 19, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869807632783225248

 

[MassGuy]

Charging him with any terrorism at all will sidetrack ppl into publicly making lists of murderers who did not get that charge. (As I said 20 times already I am in favor of the charge of "terrorism" because it clearly is an over reach)

Demanding to know if ppl on the streets of NYC speak English, and then killing them. Sounds like terrorism to me. But no one seemed to care. See? Once they dumb down a word to keep crime away from the most Tony area of NYC, the word is just a word and everyone can see it.

New York Times Runs Dozens of Stories About Slain CEO – But Hasn’t Covered the Killing of Teenager in Possible Hate Crime Just a Few Miles Away​

MSN

They have hate crime legislation that enhances the penalty in the example you describe.

If New York had your standard first degree murder charge, like pretty much every state in the US, then the terrorism angle wouldn’t be used.

This crime was the absolute perfect example of what we would normally consider to be premeditated first degree murder. The fact that this could only be charged with second degree is crazy.

This charge gets them there, just like a hate crime enhancement gets them there in the example you used. It maxes out the punishment.

If the jury doesn’t go for that, then they’ll almost certainly go for second degree. And if that doesn’t happen, the federal charges could trump them all, regardless.

 

[Arkay]

I mentioned federal charges right after he was caught. I would love to see it happen.

Maybe if they put the death penalty on the table, he would take a deal to avoid that and we won't have to hear anything else about him.

Of course I think he would fight to the last moment and he's being fueled by all his "supporters". I question weather his goal was even anything to do with healthcare reform. I think he just wanted to be known and he got this idea and was then fueled online by others complaining about the healthcare situation. Instead of deciding he could work to make changes in a legal, ethical way, he decides to do what he did and now some are looking at him as some hero.

He wanted to make a statement with this murder, but I hope what happens is an example is made of him and if that means federal charges and laying it on thick as they can, then I'm all for it. Something needs to deter those that see his acts as acceptable from carrying out similar crimes. This is not how we do things in a civilized society.

I agree with everything you’ve said, except that NY does not have the death penalty. I’m not sure if federal charges will supersede but IMO it’s unlikely.

Thank you @sds71 for the complaint.

Good job, FBI Agent Gary W. Cobb! It seems comprehensive to me.

I note that on page 9, section C, the complaint states that he wanted to kill an executive from the health care industry, but ALSO “wealthy executives in particular.”

That rings to me of a broader scope than just the CEO of UHG and lends credence to a charge of terrorism.

Very malignant thinking demonstrated by LM, particularly when his parents and grandparents were and are wealthy executives. Especially when some of their properties are nursing homes that are supposedly providing care to the elderly.

I’ve no empathy for him at all. He wasn’t mistreated by UHG, nor was his family.

This is out and out a hostile, cowardly, cold-blooded murder of someone who’d done Luigi no personal harm.


JMO

 

[bestill]

I just watched him arrive in NYC. I have to confess this entire situation has me so sad. He could be one of my nephews, it's just a horrible heart breaking situation. He brought this all on himself, I just don't understand it. Murdering Brian solved nothing. He destroyed so much by doing this. I am really just sad, sad, sad. The Thompson's facing their first Christmas without Brian, Mangione's family dealing with this shocking assassination. We really just never know what we may face in the future.

 

[10ofRods]

Two of my kids had scholarships to state schools. Not needs based.

Penn is not a state school. It gives grants through financial aid packages, following FAPSA:

Financial Aid

Penn’s grant-based undergraduate financial aid program meets 100% of demonstrated financial need with grants and work-study funding, making

srfs.upenn.edu

Typically, state schools have grants (Pell Grants in California) as well. These grants are only good for public universities. California has a couple of those programs.

The National Merit Scholarship is another exception, requires very high PSAT scores and I can't imagine that LM wouldn't have put that on his LinkedIn if he got one. They are also fairly low in terms of how much they pay out. No where close to a full ride. Penn doesn't list any exceptions to the FAFSA requirement for getting a full scholarship, probably because that would violate current accreditation standards and is frankly not at all popular with the public or alums who donate to help the financially needy students.

Annual cost of attending Penn is $279.000 without room and board, spending, transportation or books!
Pennsylvania (the state) gives $3000 scholarships for full time students with need who are in a public school. There's also a PA scholarship for state schools that gives a full ride to students who lost a parent performing LE duties.

Federal terrorism = International Terrorism. (Domestic terrorism is a state charge)
So no. There will not be a federal terrorism charge. Even the Boston Bomber was not charged with terrorism. His charges were for bombs.

So just a federal murder trial, right?

Luigi Mangione appeared in federal court facing new charges: How the news unfolded

Luigi Mangione, the suspect charged with shooting to death the CEO of UnitedHealthcare on a Manhattan street, has returned to New York to face murder charges after agreeing to be extradited during a court appearance in Pennsylvania on Thursday.

apnews.com

Which carries the possibility of a death penalty. It sure sounds like he's going to appear first in federal court at this point in time.

Thanks for the correction and analysis!

Seems like there might be a small gap in federal law, as traveling interstate to commit a terroristic act should probably be federal special circumstances.

IMO.

 

[BUF]

Mayor Adams is there

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869806568256221636

Of course he is….along with more LE and FBI that I think I have ever seen for one defendant.

I saw a closeup of LM on a video being shown on CNN. LM actually looked much more rested than last we saw him.

 

[DizzyB]

Penn is not a state school. It gives grants through financial aid packages, following FAPSA:

Financial Aid

Penn’s grant-based undergraduate financial aid program meets 100% of demonstrated financial need with grants and work-study funding, making

srfs.upenn.edu

Typically, state schools have grants (Pell Grants in California) as well. These grants are only good for public universities. California has a couple of those programs.

The National Merit Scholarship is another exception, requires very high PSAT scores and I can't imagine that LM wouldn't have put that on his LinkedIn if he got one. They are also fairly low in terms of how much they pay out. No where close to a full ride. Penn doesn't list any exceptions to the FAFSA requirement for getting a full scholarship, probably because that would violate current accreditation standards and is frankly not at all popular with the public or alums who donate to help the financially needy students.

Annual cost of attending Penn is $279.000 without room and board, spending, transportation or books!
Pennsylvania (the state) gives $3000 scholarships for full time students with need who are in a public school. There's also a PA scholarship for state schools that gives a full ride to students who lost a parent performing LE duties.


So just a federal murder trial, right?

Luigi Mangione appeared in federal court facing new charges: How the news unfolded

Luigi Mangione, the suspect charged with shooting to death the CEO of UnitedHealthcare on a Manhattan street, has returned to New York to face murder charges after agreeing to be extradited during a court appearance in Pennsylvania on Thursday.

apnews.com

Which carries the possibility of a death penalty. It sure sounds like he's going to appear first in federal court at this point in time.

Thanks for the correction and analysis!

Seems like there might be a small gap in federal law, as traveling interstate to commit a terroristic act should probably be federal special circumstances.

IMO.

Grants and Scholarships

Undergraduate Grants and Scholarships

srfs.upenn.edu

Basically, no merit aid.

 

[legalese]

It appears LM waited by the Hilton for about an hour before the shooting.

This makes me wonder if LM went into Starbucks earlier than we thought. That would make more sense than LM taking a Starbucks break and risking BT walking outside at that exact time, imo.

 

[NuttMegg]

They have hate crime legislation that enhances the penalty in the example you describe.

If New York had your standard first degree murder charge, like pretty much every state in the US, then the terrorism angle wouldn’t be used.

This crime was the absolute perfect example of what we would normally consider to be premeditated first degree murder. The fact that this could only be charged with second degree is crazy.

This charge gets them there, just like a hate crime enhancement gets them there in the example you used. It maxes out the punishment.

If the jury doesn’t go for that, then they’ll almost certainly go for second degree. And if that doesn’t happen, the federal charges could trump them all, regardless.

I think the hate crime enhancement would be easy to prove in the example I posted. And a real terrorism charge. Did they even try to apprehend the murderer in that case?
But there is no logical "terrorism enhancement" for LM's murder.

You can't, imo, say here's the law, but I wish that 1st degree murder would be applied because if this were elsewhere it would be. So, instead we'll stretch out the terrorism charge to fit something it was never meant to fit. A murder where the suspect couldn't even fire 2 bullets in a row.
Not picking on you, we agree on other things, but not this.

 

[Friday Fan]

Penn is not a state school. It gives grants through financial aid packages, following FAPSA:

Financial Aid

Penn’s grant-based undergraduate financial aid program meets 100% of demonstrated financial need with grants and work-study funding, making

srfs.upenn.edu

Typically, state schools have grants (Pell Grants in California) as well. These grants are only good for public universities. California has a couple of those programs.




So just a federal murder trial, right?

Luigi Mangione appeared in federal court facing new charges: How the news unfolded

Luigi Mangione, the suspect charged with shooting to death the CEO of UnitedHealthcare on a Manhattan street, has returned to New York to face murder charges after agreeing to be extradited during a court appearance in Pennsylvania on Thursday.

apnews.com

Which carries the possibility of a death penalty. It sure sounds like he's going to appear first in federal court at this point in time.

Thanks for the correction and analysis!

Seems like there might be a small gap in federal law, as traveling interstate to commit a terroristic act should probably be federal special circumstances.

IMO.

Terrorism Definitions​

International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism#:~:text=International%20terrorism%3A%20Violent%2C%20criminal%20acts,nations%20(state%2Dsponsored).

(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;

_______

Although the FBI monitors and defines domestic terrorism, there is only one federal terrorism charge and it's international.

 

[Sundog]

He looks a lot better.

I wonder if he is on medication, possibly back on medication that he stopped taking six months ago. His new attorney may be pursuing the mental health legal defense, and is getting started early.

Just speculation, because he is acting calmer, even though still looking around.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Charging him with any terrorism at all will sidetrack ppl into publicly making lists of murderers who did not get that charge. (As I said 20 times already I am in favor of the charge of "terrorism" because it clearly is an over reach)

Demanding to know if ppl on the streets of NYC speak English, and then killing them. Sounds like terrorism to me. But no one seemed to care. See? Once they dumb down a word to keep crime away from the most Tony area of NYC, the word is just a word and everyone can see it.

New York Times Runs Dozens of Stories About Slain CEO – But Hasn’t Covered the Killing of Teenager in Possible Hate Crime Just a Few Miles Away​

MSN

This is what I’m saying about the two tiered justice system in our country. I have NEVER seen NYPD go all out like that for a murder. There are thousands of cold cases in NY (Cold Case Homicide Stats - Project: Cold Case)

It feels to me that if LM had a bias against any group of people other than CEOs, he may well have gotten away. And almost certainly wouldn’t have had so many resources deployed to find him.

all IMO/MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I think the hate crime enhancement would be easy to prove in the example I posted. And a real terrorism charge. Did they even try to apprehend the murderer in that case?
But there is no logical "terrorism enhancement" for LM's murder.

You can't, imo, say here's the law, but I wish that 1st degree murder would be applied because if this were elsewhere it would be. So, instead we'll stretch out the terrorism charge to fit sonething it was never meant to fit. A murder where the suspect couldn't even fire 2 bullets in a row.
Not picking on you, we agree on other things, but not this.

There were legal experts explaining why the terrorism charge would fit, days before the grand jury chose to indict on those charges.

There’s disagreement amongst those expert, but his writings in the federal indictment seem to push the argument even further in the direction of the terrorism charge.

The goal was seemingly to coerce change and intimidate a segment of the US corporate world.

Which fits with that very broad statute.

I’m no longer concerned about that though with the federal charges.

 

[NuttMegg]

This is what I’m saying about the two tiered justice system in our country. I have NEVER seen NYPD go all out like that for a murder. There are thousands of cold cases in NY (Cold Case Homicide Stats - Project: Cold Case)

It feels to me that if LM had a bias against any group of people other than CEOs, he may well have gotten away. And almost certainly wouldn’t have had so many resources deployed to find him.

all IMO/MOO

Yep, this is a "no one will ever do this to one of our guys again" prosecution.

 

[MassGuy]

Statement from Luigi Mangione Attorney
Karen Friedman Agnifilo

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869734426726547891

 

[Sundog]

He is 100% guilty, the evidence they have is an absolute slam dunk in terms of the fact he shot and killed BT, the danger exists though that the jury will get an LM supporter on it. I think encouraging him to plead guilty even using the threat of federal death penalty charges to make that happen would be a good thing.

In the UK the judge accepts 10 out of 12 jurors agreeing a guilty verdict, in NYS it is all 12, much more risk of a LM fanboy/girl

If it is a hung jury then the state can retry LM and/or the feds can move forward with their charges. Either way, LM isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[BrianJohnson]

DBM - BROWSER FREEZE

 

[BrianJohnson]

What are the jury rules with federal trials? do all 12 jurors have to agree on a verdict or is it more like UK where only 10 have to?

 

[Tiff23fr]

Yep, this is a "no one will ever do this to one of our guys again" prosecution.

I don’t feel it is that NuttMegg, but I understand how optics can create that.
We can’t allow this to set a precedent (IMO). Luigi may not have hurt others, but crazy person X may not have as many worries about the kids or others standing nearby.

Please know, I understand your frustrations and get it.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Yep, this is a "no one will ever do this to one of our guys again" prosecution.

Sickening, if you think about it, how transparent they’re being that *we* don’t deserve the same justice and protection *they* do…