NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[CrimeDawg123]

I don’t think it’s been confirmed, but I suspect he went home to Maryland for surgery. Not only is Baltimore home to some of the country’s top hospitals, but if he’d had back issues since childhood, he likely had a long relationship with physicians who could refer him to excellent surgeons. And he would’ve needed help for a while afterwards. I don’t care what he told friends or posted, no way was he up and back to independent activity in a week. I’m also wondering if that was about the last time he was in contact with family and possibly something happened during that timeframe to splinter the relationship.

I’ve seen people state he “demanded surgery” but it doesn’t work like that. A patient can ask or demand anything but that doesn’t mean they get it. They still need to find a doc willing to give it to them. Not many orthopedic surgeons, if any at all, would be willing to perform spinal surgery on a 24/25 year old without multiple tests, scans, and failing other treatment options. Moo

I think most people, especially young people, would want to be close to their family when having such a serious surgery. And I'd think his parents would want him home.

 

[Agatha3]

I doubt that Mangione wants to pursue a mental illness defence. He spent 6 months festering over the health insurance industry and I think he wants his day in court so he can follow through with broadcasting his opinions about the industry.

That is the very reason that motive should be eliminated from trial proceedings. He's entitled to a defence to respond to evidence of intent, but this should not be an opportunity for Mangione to put the insurance industry on trial - which I believe is part of his plan.

Can this happen though, please? Asking from Uk.

 

[Angelcat13]

Not commenting on what happened to Luigi (I think it is more of a personality type.) However, because so many people complain of back pain and vertebral fusion is an atrocious procedure. I always wondered why so popular in Europe polymer filling is not used widely here. Less invasive and cheaper. Maybe someone might find it useful.

Polymeric Hydrogels for Intervertebral Disc Replacement/Integration: Playing with the Chemical Composition for Tuning Shear Behavior and Hydrophilicity - PMC

Damages to the intervertebral disc (IVD) due to improper loading or degeneration result in back pain, which is a common disease affecting an increasing number of patients. Different strategies for IVD remediation have been developed, from surgical ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For spondylolisthesis which comes in different phases, polymers have been used for a while too

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1529943002005363

I don’t know if Luigi’s pain was just due to this diagnosis or there was some emotional element, but in any case, intense exercise must have made it worse, not better.

I wonder if UHC (and/or other insurance companies) cover Polymeric Hydrogels or is it denied as either being experimental or as being a more expensive treatment that “can be treated less expensively” with traditional fusion surgery with hardware?

One (of the many) things that really pisses me off about these insurance companies is that they always try to take the cheapest route even if is NOT in the best interest of the patient. They absolutely don’t seem to care that the cheapest route can actually cause more pain/harm (and expense!) down the line as they probably cross their fingers and hope that the person becomes the problem of another insurance company by the time it comes necessary for additional treatments and/or hope that denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition becomes allowable again.

Not saying I agree with LM’s killing of BT, but the ANGER about the way insurance companies treat people is very real.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I doubt that Mangione wants to pursue a mental illness defence. He spent 6 months festering over the health insurance industry and I think he wants his day in court so he can follow through with broadcasting his opinions about the industry.

That is the very reason that motive should be eliminated from trial proceedings. He's entitled to a defence to respond to evidence of intent, but this should not be an opportunity for Mangione to put the insurance industry on trial - which I believe is part of his plan.

I disagree with you. Motive is often relevant and instrumental in prosecuting a case. Mangione has every right to testify in his own defense. The judge will keep proceedings on point and civil.

 

[DizzyB]

I disagree with you. Motive is often relevant and instrumental in prosecuting a case. Mangione has every right to testify in his own defense. The judge will keep proceedings on point and civil.

Hanging out on WS taught me that facts are of utmost importance. I’m waiting for evidence that goes to the motive we are discussing. So far, we only have what Luigi has told people, and posted on the internet. Lyme disease, brain fog, spondy, surgery, inability to have sex, xrays, came from him. It all might be true, but I’m not there yet.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I wonder if UHC (and/or other insurance companies) cover Polymeric Hydrogels or is it denied as either being experimental or as being a more expensive treatment that “can be treated less expensively” with traditional fusion surgery with hardware?

One (of the many) things that really pisses me off about these insurance companies is that they always try to take the cheapest route even if is NOT in the best interest of the patient. They absolutely don’t seem to care that the cheapest route can actually cause more pain/harm (and expense!) down the line as they probably cross their fingers and hope that the person becomes the problem of another insurance company by the time it comes necessary for additional treatments and/or hope that denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition becomes allowable again.

Not saying I agree with LM’s killing of BT, but the ANGER about the way insurance companies treat people is very real.

Publically traded insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders first and foremost. Their responsibility to patients is only to provide care that meets what is specified in the policy. But in doing that, their primary goal is to maximize shareholder value. That's their job and the CEO's sole focus.

(I think that is immoral)

 

[Tiff23fr]

Here’s a report from NBC that shows the entire missing persons report LM’s mom filed in San Francisco. It says she thought he was in San Francisco working at the Truecar office in person. Also medical says none.

IMHO- It seems like LM wasn’t up front with her about the fact that he hadn’t worked there since 2023. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he was never in San Francisco.

Mother of suspect in CEO's killing told police person of interest could be her son, sources say

After UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson's killing, a San Francisco officer saw a resemblance in a missing persons report for Luigi Mangione and police contacted his mother, sources said.

www.nbcnews.com

IMO - I wouldn’t get hung up on whether his mom may have “thought” he was physically working in the office as compared to still WFH. It was a crazy time with 20 something year olds all over the place.

Yes - I agree he wasn’t upfront
I feel, IMO, LM is used to living parallel lives. Let’s see what plays out…

If he was never in San Francisco however, who/how was the silencer potentially obtained there?
(Eminem in my ear is saying: “Would the real Slim Shady Please stand up?”
(Yes - I believe they have LM. But there is still more to his parallel life IMO.)

San Francisco data to date:
They said Mangione was a careful and complicated man who planned the attack carefully and apparently made the murder weapon and the suppressor believed to have been used in the shooting, himself. They said he apparently ordered a receiver — the bottom part of a ghost gun— from an online site and may have had it delivered to his home in San Francisco. They say he made the rest of the gun with a 3D printer, adding the silencer was homemade as well.

Luigi Mangione's motive for allegedly killing UnitedHealthcare's CEO is coming into focus, NYPD says

While there are still many investigative leads to follow up on, top NYPD officials say they are now getting a clearer picture of Luigi Mangione.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Marantz4250b]

Hanging out on WS taught me that facts are of utmost importance. I’m waiting for evidence that goes to the motive we are discussing. So far, we only have what Luigi has told people, and posted on the internet. Lyme disease, brain fog, spondy, surgery, inability to have sex, xrays, came from him. It all might be true, but I’m not there yet.

Legally, if NY is similar to here,- UK - then motive is completely irrelevant to the prosecution of the case. All you need to prove is that the defendant did what he is charged with.

Motive may aid the prosecution but is by no means required. People are still arguing Lucy Letby's motivation for murdering seven babies as none was suggested during her trials but it didn't stop her being convicted.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Did you get an answer about the syncing. I'm looking and can't find it.

No, an answer has not been given
<DBM>

 

[Marantz4250b]

IMO - I wouldn’t get hung up on whether his mom may have “thought” he was physically working in the office as compared to still WFH. It was a crazy time with 20 something year olds all over the place.

Yes - I agree he wasn’t upfront
I feel, IMO, LM is used to living parallel lives. Let’s see what plays out…

If he was never in San Francisco however, who/how was the silencer potentially obtained there?
(Eminem in my ear is saying: “Would the real Slim Shady Please stand up?”
(Yes - I believe they have LM. But there is still more to his parallel life IMO.)

San Francisco data to date:
They said Mangione was a careful and complicated man who planned the attack carefully and apparently made the murder weapon and the suppressor believed to have been used in the shooting, himself. They said he apparently ordered a receiver — the bottom part of a ghost gun— from an online site and may have had it delivered to his home in San Francisco. They say he made the rest of the gun with a 3D printer, adding the silencer was homemade as well.

Luigi Mangione's motive for allegedly killing UnitedHealthcare's CEO is coming into focus, NYPD says

While there are still many investigative leads to follow up on, top NYPD officials say they are now getting a clearer picture of Luigi Mangione.

www.cbsnews.com

That's totally wrong. Its the receiver which was 3D printed as that's the easiest bit to make and the bit subject to legal control.

The metal bits such as the barrel, slide a d springs are what he bought or otherwise acquired.

It's more evidence that he's a complete fantasist because why not just buy an actual Glock? He's over 21 and not a convicted felon so what's the issue?

The only bit that's difficult to a acquire would be the moderator as they are federally registered and despite what you see in the movies aren't easy to get illegally. Printing that makes total sense.

And it 100% will be home made which is why we haven't seen it. If it were legally acquired it would be being used as a massive stick to beat gun owners with.

It's a curious and rather bizarre paradox because a moderator is much, much easier to get here in the UK than the USA. You ask for authority to acquire one and they give it. In fact, you only need authority if its an "accessory" to a firearm. If its fixed to the gun no authority is required and the government doesn't even know you have it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

What I notice is that he was partaking in friendship via friend group/living arrangements. He was once in that Honolulu housing where there was a kind of collective living arrangement. IOW, he was in college in the same kind of collective living arrangement, then graduated, and became a kind of wanderer (Stanford; San Francisco; Honolulu - 2 different places; travel to Japan and other parts of Asia).

Initial connections with people can be the result of a charming personality that can mask, as one of his "pals" put it: "darkness."

Then, he appears to have ghosted all of those friend groups (and no word on whether he dated that Tinder yoga instructor more than once - or even at all, they simply matched on Tinder and it looks like maybe he started taking lessons? Paying for lessons?) Ghosts his family too.

So, while he "connects" well, he seems to be in constant motion, friend and family-wise. No longterm romantic relationships that we know of. No best friend from college coming forward with more than the most superficial accounts of who he was.

I say this because in work inside mental hospitals, it's quite common for most of the patients to "connect" well with a new person - this is something they've learned to do. This does not mean that the patients are in a normal state of mind. Indeed, moving from place to place or from friend group to friend group can be a way of remaining social while avoiding what I'd call more intimate relationships (I don't mean in the sexual sense).

He apparently talked quite a bit about his pain situation within some of these groups. So people were concerned about him. I just find it interesting that he basically chose a path that emphasized his medical fragility/pain and that lots of people knew about it and wanted to help/support him.

I'd like to see some evidence that he had regular, longterm friendships that were based on mutual interests and personalities, as opposed to his (perhaps) relying on his medical situation to connect to others. He had several different "issues" that he was using to connect to people on reddit (visual snow was one of them, which surprised me). Lyme's disease, spondy, visual snow, possible use of pain meds, surgery. That's a lot for a 26 year old. He obviously also had his good lucks and intelligence, but I'm surprised that he cut off his Honolulu friend group, traveled to meet up with various groups of friendly fellow-travelers or local inhabitants. Those are transient type relationships. Maybe his overall pain situation (and perception of his own sexual dysfunction) made it hard for him to maintain what I would call "best friends" or a significant other.

IMO. Maybe he didn't want to be a burden to people - we haven't heard about that, one way or another.

Good point @10ofRods, LM just doesn't seem engaged in meaningful, long term relationships. That says something to me for a young man his age. It could possibly be because of s e x u a l orientation that he feels is not acceptable to his large, close knit, traditionalist family? IDK. Here's a snip from an article I thought was interesting regarding that:

<snipped>
The grandmother of Luigi Mangione, the suspect charged in UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson's Dec. 4 murder, left a fortune to her children and grandchildren — as long as the descendant has not "been charged, indicted, convicted of or pleads guilty to a felony," according to her will.

MM, a Baltimore-area millionaire philanthropist married to real-estate developer NM, left an estimated $30 million — and possibly more — to her family when she died in 2023. The matriarch had 10 children and 37 grandchildren.

UnitedHealthcare CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione's grandma left millions to family — excluding felons

He has charm, good lucks, intellect, and the social skills to easily ingratiate himself to others in what seems like superficial, short term relationships.

As you pointed out, LM claims to quite a few health related issues, Lymes, VSS, Spondy, yet he appears very fit and healthy in most of the pics I've seen of him on SM and MSM. I'm not saying he doesn't have these conditions, but...it does make me wonder if he doesn't have a MH issue as well.

JMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Legally, if NY is similar to here,- UK - then motive is completely irrelevant to the prosecution of the case. All you need to prove is that the defendant did what he is charged with.

Motive may aid the prosecution but is by no means required. People are still arguing Lucy Letby's motivation for murdering seven babies as none was suggested during her trials but it didn't stop her being convicted.

Motive is definitely not required but if it is there, the prosecution can and will use it.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

That may be true, but it doesn’t make it right.

Maybe they should be honest in their “Policy Terms” -

“We are going to charge you exorbitant premiums while finding every way possible to deny any claims. Even if we are supposed to cover a claim, we will do so only if you catch us and have enough time, energy and mental ability to argue with us for hours on end and are able to persevere through numerous accidental disconnections.

If we are forced to cover a claim, we will only cover the cheapest form of care - even if it means prolonged pain, worsening of your condition and future expenses (which we will also deny). We will happily do this so we can continue to provide our CEO’s and investors with more money than you will ever know.”

No, it's not right and I hate that it is true. For those with employer 401k's they'll rely on in retirement, the holdings probably include healthcare companies. Such is the Shakespearean tragedy of getting older in the US.

 

[Columbo Was The Best]

Publically traded insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders first and foremost. Their responsibility to patients is only to provide care that meets what is specified in the policy. But in doing that, their primary goal is to maximize shareholder value. That's their job and the CEO's sole focus.

(I think that is immoral)

I could not agree more with your assessment. Why this is allowed in a country that supposedly follows laws (and why people actually put up with this and do not force these companies out of the health insurance sector by way of signing petitions, organising massive protests, refusing to sign up for any of this should-be-considered-criminal nonsense) is beyond me. Jmoo.

 

[Friday Fan]

I wonder if UHC (and/or other insurance companies) cover Polymeric Hydrogels or is it denied as either being experimental or as being a more expensive treatment that “can be treated less expensively” with traditional fusion surgery with hardware?

One (of the many) things that really pisses me off about these insurance companies is that they always try to take the cheapest route even if is NOT in the best interest of the patient. They absolutely don’t seem to care that the cheapest route can actually cause more pain/harm (and expense!) down the line as they probably cross their fingers and hope that the person becomes the problem of another insurance company by the time it comes necessary for additional treatments and/or hope that denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition becomes allowable again.

Not saying I agree with LM’s killing of BT, but the ANGER about the way insurance companies treat people is very real.

​

Is lumbar disc replacement covered by insurance?​

Yes, single-level lumbar replacement is now covered by most insurance plans. There are some plans that do not cover lumbar disc replacement, such as Medicare and Medicaid. You should contact your insurance company to learn more about your specific coverage.

Back/Spine Procedures - Lumbar Total Disc Replacement | Texas Health Center for Diagnostics & Surgery

Lumbar total disc replacement treats lower back pain caused by degenerative disc disease or discogenic pain through artificial disc and disc degeneration surgery.

thcds.com

_____________

Medicare apparently covers it only if you are under 60 years old.

Luigi would not have benefited since his condition was skeletal. I know prior to the artificial discs, discectomy and fusion were the main surgical options. There are other options for disc related problems. Disc pain is complicated.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I've followed enough cases here on Websleuths to know better than to take anything I read, even from a normally credible MSM source, at face value. Many times, when the facts eventually come out, these early reports are proven false.

I want to know where he was and what he was doing between July and December, where he was after leaving NY and why he was in Altoona. I thought he might be trying to make his way to his family, but if that were true, wouldn't he have gone to Philadelphia? Not that it matters, really, but I'm just the curious type.

MOO

Agree @Kapua, he obviously went completely radio silent sometime in June/July 2024 as his own mother filed a missing person's report. I don't believe his family knew where LM was or what was going on with him.

I wonder if there was a family fallout at some point after his graduation from Penn and his job at TrueCar.

JMO

 

[waldojabba]

Yes, but its the fact that he'd left Pittsburg and was heading back east through Altoona which makes people wonder if he had something planned next.

UnitedHealthcare CEO killing: Luigi Mangione left New York City by train, not by bus, sources say

Luigi Mangione, the suspect accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, left New York City by train, and not by bus as first thought, police sources told ABC News.

6abc.com

Altoona also put him about 160 miles from Baltimore - his family /old friends/things places that were familiar to him.
There is nothing I have seen in his writings etc that indicates he was after another kill. The talking heads on the tv and podcasts I imagine are using that train of thought though bc it makes for more drama, chatter and clicks. It's possible, but there are so many possibilities including he was at loose ends and did not really have a plan. When they picked him up he looked disheveled, disturbed and lost - totally out of touch. The opposite of a guy who had accomplished his goal. The opposite of that guy with the rogueish smile at the hostel just a few days before. The opposite of the calm shooter. When he was raging with his ugly anger with a catoonishdistorted face - he looked like he had fire ants on his body IMO.

Right now I don't think any of us know why he went to Altoona.

IMO he had no well thought out plan really after he shot Brian in cold blood in NYC - I know that area of the city fairly well. I am still gobsmacked that he got away without being tackled or even tripped by everyday people. That time of year and even at that hour - the place is crawling with tourists, people out running, people going to work, street vendors. I dont imagine that he anticipated such a clean get away - .

He may have hoped for suicide by cop.

JMO

 

[BOBON]

That's totally wrong. Its the receiver which was 3D printed as that's the easiest bit to make and the bit subject to legal control.

The metal bits such as the barrel, slide a d springs are what he bought or otherwise acquired.

It's more evidence that he's a complete fantasist because why not just buy an actual Glock. He's over 21 and not a convicted felon so what's the issue?

The only bit that's difficult to a acquire would be the moderator as they are federally registered and despite what you see in the movies aren't easy to get illegally. Printing that makes total sense.

And it 100% will be home made which is why we haven't seen it. If it were legally acquired it would be being used as a massive stick to beat gun owners with.

It's a curious and rather bizarre paradox because a moderator is much, much easier to get here in the UK than the USA. You ask for authority to acquire one and they give it. In fact, you only need authority if its an "accessory" to a firearm. If its fixed to the gun no authority is required and the government doesn't even know you have it.

He didnt buy it because it could have been easier tracked back to him. The obvious choice is a ghost gun which he can also build himself because it plays into his fantasy

 

[Tiff23fr]

I am dropping this here because it took me forever to find it a second time:

“We don’t think there’s any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document, but it does seem that he has some ill will towards corporate America,” NYPD Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny said.

Luigi Mangione: What We Know About Arrest in UHC CEO Killing

Mangione was taken into custody in Altoona, Penn., on Dec. 9..

time.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Hanging out on WS taught me that facts are of utmost importance. I’m waiting for evidence that goes to the motive we are discussing. So far, we only have what Luigi has told people, and posted on the internet. Lyme disease, brain fog, spondy, surgery, inability to have sex, xrays, came from him. It all might be true, but I’m not there yet.

It will come out in trial. HIPAA laws prevent public release of any of this. Although people have a right to their own medical records and can share them publicly, I'm sure his attorney has told him not to release them publicly.

I tend to believe most of it because he seemed pretty normal until recently.

I noticed he was his HS class valedictorian, but in college he only graduated c-u-m laude. I can't remember what my daughter's was, but I think she just squeaked into the top 10% at a public magnet HS school. In college, she graduated Summa C-u-m Laude. There were about 12,000 students at her college graduating class. She got one B in four years. But she did work her butt off in college, whereas in HS she was more into the popularity thing.

WS censors the word with hyphens....