NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[Justice101]

This is not something the Feds would screw up, and only random people on the internet would figure out. I've got it at 3.3 miles, and it only says that he was walking around the "area." What's the "area?'"

They know where he started, and know what he was wearing and carrying when the murder occurred. This also didn't occur during a time of day where there would be lots of people around, which could lead to possible confusion. That backpack is the equivalent of him carrying a sign that says "I'm the murderer."

None of this is going to be in dispute, especially considering the same fake ID found on his person (used at the hostel), same gun with a silencer, fingerprints, and ultimately DNA.

Some moron the media found saying he was hanging around all night is going to be irrelevant. They'll have video from him walking out of the hostel, traveling to the scene, and committing the murder.

Yeh, this is where internet sleuthers look foolish. 95% with no actual LE knowledge.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if they were just wearing it because of the holidays- red... and maybe they had a sweater in LM's size- do we know they bought it for him? His atty had crutches a few days ago and was surprised by the additional federal charges, so how much time did they have for wardrobe analysis and shopping?

Everything a high profile, expensive defensive attorney does is calculated to the minute detail. Even something as silly to us as clothing is a big deal, and is profiled for the most positive reaction possible. It's a thing. LOL

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I do not get the impression that the family esp minors, want public exposure IMO

I agree, they just buried their father. Plus they are not up for discussion by TOS rules. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I doubt anyone is going to have sympathy towards UHC - even amongst people sympathetic to BT there is a huge public antipathy towards US private health care providers, and it’s been there a very long time.

The only tiny silver lining about this case is that it has restarted the conversation on how health care is delivered in this country and it has united this highly polarized country like nothing else has since 9/11.

I hope that real conversation has started because it's beyond time for it to be addressed. My fear is that it will be like all the other political hot topic 'buttons' that are newsworthy until the next big thing comes along and it's forgotten about.

Our Healthcare System has been broken for years, and it's going to take ACTION from the masses to affect sustainable changes in the long run. It won't be something that will happen quickly, but affordable, quality Healthcare could and should be available for all.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have always wondered how they connected their various surveillance pictures- some are not very "identifiable" IMO, e.g. how they connected the bus arrival video(?) (not seen, assume? it exists) with the particular hostel, etc. to even know to review video at the various locations. I could see a defense argument that some of the video they say is LM is not IMO.

Thankfully after 911, NYC is one of the most heavily surveilled areas in the US. The FBI has technology we don't even know about I'm sure. They've pinpointed LM's movements from start to finish even if we don't know all the details yet.

The Defense needs to have another card to play, although maybe LM wants to go down in history as a 'Martyr'. IDK

JMO

 

[LinasK]

I have always wondered how they connected their various surveillance pictures- some are not very "identifiable" IMO, e.g. how they connected the bus arrival video(?) (not seen, assume? it exists) with the particular hostel, etc. to even know to review video at the various locations. I could see a defense argument that some of the video they say is LM is not IMO.

Except that they have his DNA to prove he was in the area at the time, and his manifesto.

 

[LinasK]

I agree, they just buried their father. Plus they are not up for discussion by TOS rules. JMO

Yet I have no doubt that even teenage boys would give a Victim's Impact statement about the loss of their father when the time comes.

 

[Jw192]

This is not something the Feds would screw up, and only random people on the internet would figure out. I've got it at 3.3 miles, and it only says that he was walking around the "area." What's the "area?'"

They know where he started, and know what he was wearing and carrying when the murder occurred. This also didn't occur during a time of day where there would be lots of people around, which could lead to possible confusion. That backpack is the equivalent of him carrying a sign that says "I'm the murderer."

None of this is going to be in dispute, especially considering the same fake ID found on his person (used at the hostel), same gun with a silencer, fingerprints, and ultimately DNA.

Some moron the media found saying he was hanging around all night is going to be irrelevant. They'll have video from him walking out of the hostel, traveling to the scene, and committing the murder.

I agree that the nail tip in the coffin here is the items he was discovered with, but you cannot deny that the information in the fed drop is very questionable. 3.3 miles on an ebike alone is a lot longer than 6 minutes from even 'ebike racers' and that's not taking into account the dismounting the bike a ten minute walk from the crime scene, and getting to the hotel. 6 minutes they've stated... 6 minutes. It's not plausible, hence why I said they must have got the timings messed up, there's no other logical explanation. Look at the document and look at the distances and timings yourselves, I've looks at the timings of the document and even earlier when there would be less traffic, as well as looking at people who buzz off racing ebikes' records. As you know, I do believe that LM is the shooter and I do believe he acted alone, that's why their official document has got me scratching my head.
I do disagree though, everything and anything will be disputed in this case, as it is in many others as that is the job of the defense. Do you please have any official statements regarding the fingerprints and DNA, it's not mentioned in the fed complaint and I've only seen it mentioned in media, specifically that there are partial prints and DNA found on a kind bar and a water bottle NEARBY to the scene of the crime... Again, something that could be argued away. Ofc the weapon on LM's person will have his prints on, and I assume they will have ballistics eventually which tie the gun to the casings... Which ofc can be argued in court as unreliable as we know that many places see it as a junk science.

Again, I think it's him. I'm just unsure that even WITH the notebook found and the letter to the feds, they don't have enough beyond a reasonable doubt to get him, especially on the farcical terrorism charges.

ETA - For the record I'm not claiming to have found something the feds haven't, nor would I ever. I have too much respect for them, especially in my own line of work. However it's my job to ask questions when I see them and this here was a question as to how it would be possible.

 

[LinasK]

I agree that the nail tip in the coffin here is the items he was discovered with, but you cannot deny that the information in the fed drop is very questionable. 3.3 miles on an ebike alone is a lot longer than 6 minutes from even 'ebike racers' and that's not taking into account the dismounting the bike a ten minute walk from the crime scene, and getting to the hotel. 6 minutes they've stated... 6 minutes. It's not plausible, hence why I said they must have got the timings messed up, there's no other logical explanation. Look at the document and look at the distances and timings yourselves, I've looks at the timings of the document and even earlier when there would be less traffic, as well as looking at people who buzz off racing ebikes' records. As you know, I do believe that LM is the shooter and I do believe he acted alone, that's why their official document has got me scratching my head.
I do disagree though, everything and anything will be disputed in this case, as it is in many others as that is the job of the defense. Do you please have any official statements regarding the fingerprints and DNA, it's not mentioned in the fed complaint and I've only seen it mentioned in media, specifically that there are partial prints and DNA found on a kind bar and a water bottle NEARBY to the scene of the crime... Again, something that could be argued away. Ofc the weapon on LM's person will have his prints on, and I assume they will have ballistics eventually which tie the gun to the casings... Which ofc can be argued in court as unreliable as we know that many places see it as a junk science.

Again, I think it's him. I'm just unsure that even WITH the notebook found and the letter to the feds, they don't have enough beyond a reasonable doubt to get him, especially on the farcical terrorism charges.

Prosecutors don't generally rely on a single piece of evidence like visual identification of suspects. The rest is corroborating evidence so that all the pieces of a circumstantial case come together to prove it could only be that suspect. Of course defense attorneys pick it apart one piece at a time. It's what they do.

 

[Arkay]

Actually the opposite. Psychologically speaking it's a very clever play and is used way more than you think. Think about uniforms as an example, aside from them being a tool and a representation of a company, it's a united front. That's what they did here. They put on a united front, a show of camaraderie . A none verbal way of showing the bond and commitment. If you looked too, Mr A also had on the burgundy tie which matched their jumpers. Like a families holiday card outfits and whether you think it's cringe or in bad taste, subconsciously it shows you that they're a unit and again, it's a clever play.

Table for one here, perhaps, but I would be THAT juror—-the one who would be offended by this blatant attempt at jury manipulation.

It’s too conspicuous, and IMO it’s demeaning to think it would subconsciously sway me.

I would trust myself to go by the evidence, but I’m too cynical and jaded a New Yorker to believe I’d be influenced by such overt maneuvering.

I find it more comical than convincing.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Table for one here, perhaps, but I would be THAT juror—-the one who would be offended by this blatant attempt at jury manipulation.

It’s too conspicuous, and IMO it’s demeaning to think it would subconsciously sway me.

I would trust myself to go by the evidence, but I’m too cynical and jaded a New Yorker to believe I’d be influenced by such overt maneuvering.

I find it more comical than convincing.

JMO

I agree @Arkay After following many cases on WS over the years, I believe jurors take their oaths very seriously. They do their best and try their hardest for a fair and just verdict based on the evidence presented. Nobody thought Delphi would end in a conviction, yet he was.

JMO

 

[justpeachy22]

IMO

I really believe, Kaczyński's manifesto was Luigi's trigger. His review of a book (Goodreads - now locked) tells us everything we

Can’t believe they still had Ted’s book on Amazon. Ted has been an influence but the internet gave him the confidence and the know how and the intel to carry it out.

Table for one here, perhaps, but I would be THAT juror—-the one who would be offended by this blatant attempt at jury manipulation.

It’s too conspicuous, and IMO it’s demeaning to think it would subconsciously sway me.

I would trust myself to go by the evidence, but I’m too cynical and jaded a New Yorker to believe I’d be influenced by such overt maneuvering.

I find it more comical than convincing.

JMO

But it wasn’t done at a trial with jurors. It was done on his first ny court date to establish a message. A short and sweet trip to see a judge. I doubt the defense would try that sweater tactic during an actual trial. It served its purpose at the time.

On a different note, anyone have any theories on why he would deny that the cash found on him at arrest belonged to him? For as much as he seemed to take ownership of his crime (manifesto on hand), I found it interesting that he would deny the cash belonged to him. Lots of people travel with cash on hand; if anything I would have guessed that he’d deny ownership of the gun instead of the cash.

 

[Sundog]

On a different note, anyone have any theories on why he would deny that the cash found on him at arrest belonged to him? For as much as he seemed to take ownership of his crime (manifesto on hand), I found it interesting that he would deny the cash belonged to him. Lots of people travel with cash on hand; if anything I would have guessed that he’d deny ownership of the gun instead of the cash.

<snipped for focus>

I've wondered about that, too. I wonder if he was concerned mainly with the foreign currency as it might give away some information about where he was planning to go, or for some other reason.

And although lots of people travel with cash, travelling with $10,000 U.S. equivalent in cash is unusual for someone passing through Altoona, PA, with a backpack, no means of transportation, having breakfast at McDonald's and likely arriving there by bus.

 

[al66pine]

Time for Shopping for Coordinating Outfits?

I wonder if they were just wearing it because of the holidays- red... and maybe they had a sweater in LM's size- do we know they bought it for him? His atty had crutches a few days ago and was surprised by the additional federal charges, so how much time did they have for wardrobe analysis and shopping?

@acutename
W derriere parked on desk chair, someone needing a couple coordinating sweaters tout de suite for a dramatic courtroom entrance can open amazon.com. No need to leave home or office.

W'in a few MINUTES,
- Can use One-Click Ordering by pressing the Buy Now button.
- Should receive same day or next day.

Sweaters, even for court appearances, don't need to be fitted to meet Savile Row bespoke perfection.
imo

Agreeing w ^ post, that the same burgundy-ish color on all three (2 sweaters, 1 necktie) may have been a serendipitous event at this time of year.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree that the nail tip in the coffin here is the items he was discovered with, but you cannot deny that the information in the fed drop is very questionable. 3.3 miles on an ebike alone is a lot longer than 6 minutes from even 'ebike racers' and that's not taking into account the dismounting the bike a ten minute walk from the crime scene, and getting to the hotel. 6 minutes they've stated... 6 minutes. It's not plausible, hence why I said they must have got the timings messed up, there's no other logical explanation. Look at the document and look at the distances and timings yourselves, I've looks at the timings of the document and even earlier when there would be less traffic, as well as looking at people who buzz off racing ebikes' records. As you know, I do believe that LM is the shooter and I do believe he acted alone, that's why their official document has got me scratching my head.
I do disagree though, everything and anything will be disputed in this case, as it is in many others as that is the job of the defense. Do you please have any official statements regarding the fingerprints and DNA, it's not mentioned in the fed complaint and I've only seen it mentioned in media, specifically that there are partial prints and DNA found on a kind bar and a water bottle NEARBY to the scene of the crime... Again, something that could be argued away. Ofc the weapon on LM's person will have his prints on, and I assume they will have ballistics eventually which tie the gun to the casings... Which ofc can be argued in court as unreliable as we know that many places see it as a junk science.

Again, I think it's him. I'm just unsure that even WITH the notebook found and the letter to the feds, they don't have enough beyond a reasonable doubt to get him, especially on the farcical terrorism charges.

ETA - For the record I'm not claiming to have found something the feds haven't, nor would I ever. I have too much respect for them, especially in my own line of work. However it's my job to ask questions when I see them and this here was a question as to how it would be possible.

If this isn't already beyond a reasonable doubt, then no case ever prosecuted in the history of American justice meets that burden. Even his own attorney said as much when she was on CNN (prior to taking the case).

I do not believe his attorney will attempt to refute this evidence, as that avenue is a sure path to conviction. She'll try to mitigate.

I don't think it's him. I'd bet my life and the life of every single person in my family on that.

Do you think he was trying to influence public policy? That's terrorism. I called it that before we ever knew his name, as it was blatantly clear from the words on those bullets.

Regardless, the federal charges are the ones that will result in the stiffest punishment. Life in prison without parole.

 

[LinasK]

Time for Shopping for Coordinating Outfits?

@acutename
W derriere parked on desk chair, someone needing a couple coordinating sweaters tout de suite for a dramatic courtroom entrance can open amazon.com. No need to leave home or office.

W'in a few MINUTES,
- Can use One-Click Ordering by pressing the Buy Now button.
- Should receive same day or next day.

Sweaters, even for court appearances, don't need to be fitted to meet Savile Row bespoke perfection.
imo

Agreeing w ^ post, that the same burgundy-ish color on all three (2 sweaters, 1 necktie) may have been a serendipitous event at this time of year.

The Burgundy color isn't necessarily a Christmas message. It could just be what's in fashion/available right now, or because his lawyer thinks it's a good color on him.

 

[Donswife48]

I doubt anyone is going to have sympathy towards UHC - even amongst people sympathetic to BT there is a huge public antipathy towards US private health care providers, and it’s been there a very long time.

The only tiny silver lining about this case is that it has restarted the conversation on how health care is delivered in this country and it has united this highly polarized country like nothing else has since 9/11.

I disagree, I have great sympathy towards insurance providers. People cannot be covered for all treatments, experimental or established. There is simply not enough money to do that. It is reasonable to establish a treatment that will help the most people. And it is reasonable for those who need extra care and treatment to advocate for add'l care. JMO

 

[acutename]

Everything a high profile, expensive defensive attorney does is calculated to the minute detail. Even something as silly to us as clothing is a big deal, and is profiled for the most positive reaction possible. It's a thing. LOL

JMO

I am sure they are thinking about his appearance but I am not sure that, esp before a judge, it is the same as it would be before a jury. They do all wind up in the news though...

 

[Jw192]

Prosecutors don't generally rely on a single piece of evidence like visual identification of suspects. The rest is corroborating evidence so that all the pieces of a circumstantial case come together to prove it could only be that suspect. Of course defense attorneys pick it apart one piece at a time. It's what they do.

Well I think we all here know that's how it works tbh, my point I was trying to make is that their single pieces of evidence and corroborating evidence doesn't seem enough in a way, even stacked. Like I personally believe that it's LM and him alone. I believe that he wanted to be found and he wanted to be found with exactly what he had on him, but there's a lot that can be argued and reasonable doubt brought in imo. The surveillance footage they have shown, it's all very hmmm and you've got every tom dick and harry saying that it's not the same person in the released footage and I can't think how they can possibly prove BRD that it was visually from CCTV. The DNA, I'm yet to see anything concrete from LE/Feds regarding it, but as far as I'm aware it's DNA on the kind bar wrapper and water bottle found NEARBY to the crime scene, some have said it was on top of the bin near the Starbucks, so again every tom dick and harry is saying is it a crime to have a snack and bin your rubbish? The fingerprints, again not much concrete that we have seen from the officials, but what's been said is that there are partial on the rubbish... nothing about the shell casings that I've seen (unless anyone has an official source) We have the 'letter to the feds' found on him, yah very condemning I think, though, nowhere in the letter does it detail the crime or the victim, it simply expresses a huge chew on and could be argued that it's not an admittance of guilt of the crime of murder. The notebooks, I think these are the best bits of evidence the prosecution has, they name UHC and the conference but not the victim (that we know of yet). The fake ID, weapon and silencer, the fake ID is the same one used in the hostel they say, ok seems sus but that's ties into the CCTV mentioned above. The gun and silencer are naughty, like why would a lad be in a McDonald's with a gun he made on a printer? I hate to say this but it's America and almost every tom dick and harry has a firearm... Like I said they will have all kinds of ballistics run and they may very well match the spent rounds to the gun found with him, it's how the courts and jury take it as many believe certain types of ballistics is "junk science"... Now add on that there's no view of the shooters face on CCTV committing the crime ... Now to remember that the juries will be filled with your everyday tom dick and harry. I'm just not 100% sure that they have enough beyond a reasonable doubt. Ofc they will have kept a bunch back, they always do so I'll say, they wanna hope they have a slam dunk bit of irrefutable evidence in their back pockets as I don't think they're going to have as easy of a time as some people on here think they are with this one.

Again, I think the shooter is LM

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Well I think we all here know that's how it works tbh, my point I was trying to make is that their single pieces of evidence and corroborating evidence doesn't seem enough in a way, even stacked. Like I personally believe that it's LM and him alone. I believe that he wanted to be found and he wanted to be found with exactly what he had on him, but there's a lot that can be argued and reasonable doubt brought in imo. The surveillance footage they have shown, it's all very hmmm and you've got every tom dick and harry saying that it's not the same person in the released footage and I can't think how they can possibly prove BRD that it was visually from CCTV. The DNA, I'm yet to see anything concrete from LE/Feds regarding it, but as far as I'm aware it's DNA on the kind bar wrapper and water bottle found NEARBY to the crime scene, some have said it was on top of the bin near the Starbucks, so again every tom dick and harry is saying is it a crime to have a snack and bin your rubbish? The fingerprints, again not much concrete that we have seen from the officials, but what's been said is that there are partial on the rubbish... nothing about the shell casings that I've seen (unless anyone has an official source) We have the 'letter to the feds' found on him, yah very condemning I think, though, nowhere in the letter does it detail the crime or the victim, it simply expresses a huge chew on and could be argued that it's not an admittance of guilt of the crime of murder. The notebooks, I think these are the best bits of evidence the prosecution has, they name UHC and the conference but not the victim (that we know of yet). The fake ID, weapon and silencer, the fake ID is the same one used in the hostel they say, ok seems sus but that's ties into the CCTV mentioned above. The gun and silencer are naughty, like why would a lad be in a McDonald's with a gun he made on a printer? I hate to say this but it's America and almost every tom dick and harry has a firearm... Like I said they will have all kinds of ballistics run and they may very well match the spent rounds to the gun found with him, it's how the courts and jury take it as many believe certain types of ballistics is "junk science"... Now add on that there's no view of the shooters face on CCTV committing the crime ... Now to remember that the juries will be filled with your everyday tom dick and harry. I'm just not 100% sure that they have enough beyond a reasonable doubt. Ofc they will have kept a bunch back, they always do so I'll say, they wanna hope they have a slam dunk bit of irrefutable evidence in their back pockets as I don't think they're going to have as easy of a time as some people on here think they are with this one.

Again, I think the shooter is LM

MOO

You're making an argument even his attorney isn't making, and the reason she isn't making it is because there's just no room to do that. I mean, no one on the planet is arguing his guilt; the argument is merely that this guy deserved it.

Like if this guy isn't guilty, no one in America has ever been guilty of a crime.

As I see it anyway.