NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[citygirl]

No retrial. If all jurors vote to acquit, the defendant cannot be tried again for the same crime as it would constitute double jeopardy. Therefore, when nullification of this sort occurs, the decision is final.

JMO

Understanding Jury Nullification: Definition, Examples, And Implications

But could the Feds then charge him?
I have no clue.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It's all very well stating all those things about how he was top of the class, was brilliant at everything and came from a good family and suchlike. That doesn't mean, however, that he hasn't been an evil, narcissistic raging psychopath his whole life. The two are completely unconnected and the statement "something changed" is pure speculation.

Even his own mother is reputed to have said it's something I could see him doing . That might be untrue, of course.

I agree, I thought it was interesting to post an article containing a comment that his current attorney made before actually being hired to represent him.

I think LM's MH issues (or not) are speculation at this point by all of us. There hasn't been any MSM verified information on that I don't think. If there has been, I'd love to read it if you have a link. Thanks.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

But could the Feds then charge him?
I have no clue.

Good question, I'm not sure. Maybe one of our legal eagles could answer that. I think LM is being charged on State and Fed level IIRC??

MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

Some have remarked about LM's family not showing up. After mulling it over, I respect that. For a bunch of reasons, starting with a version of tough love. Maybe they won't show during the whole process.

I'll never forget Chris Watts' mother Cindy at his sentencing, supposedly giving a "victim's impact statement". After 5-10 minutes of recounting his superlatives, she turns straight to him in open court, with the family of the babies and mommy he killed and desecrated in the most horrid manner looking on.....and says to him, as part of the VIS... "I love you son, and I forgive you".

So, yeah, so far so good with LM family. I'm not against their helping financially with the defense.

 

[BrianJohnson]

No retrial. If all jurors vote to acquit, the defendant cannot be tried again for the same crime as it would constitute double jeopardy. Therefore, when nullification of this sort occurs, the decision is final.

JMO

Understanding Jury Nullification: Definition, Examples, And Implications

Thanks, I wondered if say 11 found him guilty and one said no because they hate the healthcare industry/fancies LM, whether it could be declared a mistrial or something and held again

 

[10ofRods]

I guess I'm odd person out, but those sweaters are not the same color. In fact, I think they clash. His is burgundy and hers is red/crimson (in some pics it looks slightly brick red). Of course, all our monitors vary and it's true both are in the "red" family.

It's the matching white shirt collar look that makes it look more matchy to me.

The two have similar coloring (appear to be cool undertones) and so that's a good color for them. I mean, I do think she loosely chose holiday/wintry colors, but the two sweaters are different shades.

Internet Gushes Over Luigi Mangione and His Lawyer Wearing Matching Red Sweaters to Court: 'Adorable!'

The internet has noticed the striking similarity of outfits worn by alleged UnitedHealthcare shooter Luigi Mangione and his lawyer in court Monday morning.

www.latintimes.com

MSM apparently disagrees with me.

And I'm still puzzling about why Ms Agnifilio untucked her shirt for court. It's definitely considered casual. I found a youtube on how to style oneself (as a woman) with an untucked shirt, but they don't show one with a pullover sweater. The model for the untucked shirt appears to be about Ms A's age. Personally, I think the main goal of dressing in that way in court is to make her appear youthful and to appeal to the cohort of youthful people who are supporting LM. If anyone is interested, here is the youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujzeAOnZa_w

If they keep this up at trial, their fashion choices are going to be stealing headlines from the trial itself, especially in all the more sensationalist news outlets or the ones that are more entertainment-oriented.

 

[NuttMegg]

I guess I'm odd person out, but those sweaters are not the same color. In fact, I think they clash. His is burgundy and hers is red/crimson (in some pics it looks slightly brick red). Of course, all our monitors vary and it's true both are in the "red" family.

It's the matching white shirt collar look that makes it look more matchy to me.

The two have similar coloring (appear to be cool undertones) and so that's a good color for them. I mean, I do think she loosely chose holiday/wintry colors, but the two sweaters are different shades.

Internet Gushes Over Luigi Mangione and His Lawyer Wearing Matching Red Sweaters to Court: 'Adorable!'

The internet has noticed the striking similarity of outfits worn by alleged UnitedHealthcare shooter Luigi Mangione and his lawyer in court Monday morning.

www.latintimes.com

MSM apparently disagrees with me.

And I'm still puzzling about why Ms Agnifilio untucked her shirt for court. It's definitely considered casual. I found a youtube on how to style oneself (as a woman) with an untucked shirt, but they don't show one with a pullover sweater. The model for the untucked shirt appears to be about Ms A's age. Personally, I think the main goal of dressing in that way in court is to make her appear youthful and to appeal to the cohort of youthful people who are supporting LM. If anyone is interested, here is the youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujzeAOnZa_w

If they keep this up at trial, their fashion choices are going to be stealing headlines from the trial itself, especially in all the more sensationalist news outlets or the ones that are more entertainment-oriented.

I don't see how it was an accident. Agree that once was enough, re distraction. She should dress to be unremarkable but classy. Sweaters are fine for him. Just keep him simple, not as though he was giving it much thought.

 

[Sundog]

Legal team just going thru the motions of working hard for the client Pathetic if best strategy is buy him a sweater that matches the legal team accessories. Looks from online that maroon is a fav color of Karen, maybe she just does not want him to clash.
On LM legal bill will be every second spent sourcing the sweater by a paralegal, even the time spent cutting off the price tag.

IMO:
- LM has a MH condition & family aware of risks as it’s not new
- His isolation and withdrawal red flags and parents had PI become involved once he took huge cash withdrawal and went totally off grid. Possible they have family office banking and could see his approx whereabouts (rent payment), spending & signs of life. Then Withdrawal was big & unusual. Red flag. I think parents knew where he was even tho no contact, because PI been involved for a while so that parents knew he was alive.

-Missing person report, because he was missing now, not just “no contact”. Big $$withdrawal & then moved out, & nothing.

Thinking - my child got this MH issue, goes no contact and now we know he has taken $25,000? from bank, or fully closed account and rent unpaid (maybe family bankers were guarantors & notified) and now no credit card or bank activity.

Family possibly thinking he’s going take his own life, or do something big & symbolic (and take his own life) …. Because why else just disappear w huge amount of cash?

IMO - his conviction by jury will be quick and easy, he did it, there’s so much evidence. Every chance a plea, because there is no case to present.
Imagine
“ People of the jury, it was not my client. It was an another guy, he was framed. He just picked up that backpack and was going to turn it in … wrong place wrong time”
“People of the jury, it was my client. Insurance is bad, the victim had it coming, LM so brave to speak out. Agree with me, not guilty! ?”

LM will be on trial, not medical costs, or insurance cost or denials.
IMO
Unwell guy (the signs are all there), irrational target, got caught holding the evidence, go to jail and do not collect $200. The end.

I think it is likely that the mother knew that LM either had long-standing mental health issues that escalated, or that he was having a recent break with reality. But IIRC, when the mother reported LM missing to LE in San Francisco, she also stated that he was not a danger to himself or something to that effect. But I do think that at some point, and at some level, she feared he could be a danger to himself or others.

I do think it's possible that LM is now on medication, his demeanor in court for the state charges was odd, IMO, even if it's just anti-anxiety medication and not something related to a more serious diagnosis at this point.

 

[Sundog]

It makes him seem younger, under the care of "mama".

Agree, and his attorney emphasized his "youth", his being a young man, several times, even touching him in a caring way as she said it.

 

[Sundog]

Thanks, I wondered if say 11 found him guilty and one said no because they hate the healthcare industry/fancies LM, whether it could be declared a mistrial or something and held again

If it's a hung jury, then he can be tried again.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Another question, will he be tried for state and federal at the same time or will there be 2 different trials with 2 different juries?

 

[Sundog]

The husband-wife legal team working on two of today’s biggest criminal cases

<snipped for focus from the article posted>

So LM's attorney describes herself as a "special needs mom" in this interview. I think we can already see that part of her playing out in the courtroom with this case.

Her third child has autism, she told the podcast, and she had frustrating experiences trying to get them help. She then used her experiences as a “special needs mom” to implement systems in the DA’s office to help those with less money or opportunity, she said.

“That became sort of my mission at the DA’s office. It was very much into alternatives to incarceration, I pushed that very hard,” she said.

 

[waldojabba]

I guess I'm odd person out, but those sweaters are not the same color. In fact, I think they clash. His is burgundy and hers is red/crimson (in some pics it looks slightly brick red). Of course, all our monitors vary and it's true both are in the "red" family.

It's the matching white shirt collar look that makes it look more matchy to me.

The two have similar coloring (appear to be cool undertones) and so that's a good color for them. I mean, I do think she loosely chose holiday/wintry colors, but the two sweaters are different shades.

Internet Gushes Over Luigi Mangione and His Lawyer Wearing Matching Red Sweaters to Court: 'Adorable!'

The internet has noticed the striking similarity of outfits worn by alleged UnitedHealthcare shooter Luigi Mangione and his lawyer in court Monday morning.

www.latintimes.com

MSM apparently disagrees with me.

And I'm still puzzling about why Ms Agnifilio untucked her shirt for court. It's definitely considered casual. I found a youtube on how to style oneself (as a woman) with an untucked shirt, but they don't show one with a pullover sweater. The model for the untucked shirt appears to be about Ms A's age. Personally, I think the main goal of dressing in that way in court is to make her appear youthful and to appeal to the cohort of youthful people who are supporting LM. If anyone is interested, here is the youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujzeAOnZa_w

If they keep this up at trial, their fashion choices are going to be stealing headlines from the trial itself, especially in all the more sensationalist news outlets or the ones that are more entertainment-oriented.

IMO its unlikely that she "untucked" her shirt. The sweater and shirt are likely one piece similar to the shirt sweater combo shown at the ink .
That look is currently in style and in all the stores at different price points. That shade of red aka Maroon ish is also everywhere in fashion these days.
JMO

Brochu Walker | Women's V-neck Layered Pullover Sweater in Damson Red

The Looker Layered V-Neck is the ultimate shirt and sweater combo, creating the look of two pieces in one. Versatile and effortless, this bestseller is the perfect pre-layered style.

www.brochuwalker.com

 

[Sundog]

Another question, will he be tried for state and federal at the same time or will there be 2 different trials with 2 different juries?

There will be two different trials with two different juries - one in state court and one in federal court, they are two different jurisdictions and both jurisdictions have brought charges against LM. So far, the state has said they will go first with their charges in state court, and that the feds will go next. But that could change, of course, as this is so early in the process.

Although the trial itself (if there is one and no plea bargain is negotiated/no guilty plea is made by LM) will not take place in both courts at the same time, there will be various pre-trial hearings in both courts at the same time, but not the trial itself.

 

[NuttMegg]

If it's a hung jury, then he can be tried again.

Yes, there's a difference. Nullification involves being found not guilty, he can't be tried again. Hung jury = mistrial, he can be. Not sure how many jurors it takes to nullify, ie be found not guilty. I'd think it must be the same standard, ie number, required for guilty but I don't know.

Reisch, in that video I posted, used the example of juries just saying no to felony marijuana charges. The juries basically said they didn't agree with the law. Per Reisch. Not sure if they have to put the reason for nullification in writing or if it's self evident.

 

[Sundog]

It has been noted by some pundits that the U.S. District Court in the Southern District of New York draws upon a different jury pool (a broader jury pool from more New York state counties) than the state jury pool, and that a wider jury pool might work in the federal prosecution's favor.

Not sure why there is speculation that the different jury pools would work in either side's favor.

Welcome to Jury Duty | U.S District Court

The United States District Court for the Southern District of New York summons jurors from the following counties: New York, Bronx, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Orange, Dutchess and Sullivan. There is no more valuable service that a citizen can perform in support of our democratic Government...

www.nysd.uscourts.gov

 

[GRT]

And I'm still puzzling about why Ms Agnifilio untucked her shirt for court. It's definitely considered casual. I found a youtube on how to style oneself (as a woman) with an untucked shirt, but they don't show one with a pullover sweater.

RSBM for focus...

The first time I remember seeing the style on a consistent basis was on Ellen Degeneres. She wore it like a trademark. Kind of a casual/confident flair.

You're right that the colors don't match exactly, but I think they're close enough that they drew the eye. Both styles are very preppy.

It's so odd to find us discussing fashion of all things...

 

[FromGermany1]

I guess I'm odd person out, but those sweaters are not the same color. In fact, I think they clash. His is burgundy and hers is red/crimson (in some pics it looks slightly brick red). Of course, all our monitors vary and it's true both are in the "red" family.

It's the matching white shirt collar look that makes it look more matchy to me.

The two have similar coloring (appear to be cool undertones) and so that's a good color for them. I mean, I do think she loosely chose holiday/wintry colors, but the two sweaters are different shades.

Internet Gushes Over Luigi Mangione and His Lawyer Wearing Matching Red Sweaters to Court: 'Adorable!'

The internet has noticed the striking similarity of outfits worn by alleged UnitedHealthcare shooter Luigi Mangione and his lawyer in court Monday morning.

www.latintimes.com

MSM apparently disagrees with me.

And I'm still puzzling about why Ms Agnifilio untucked her shirt for court. It's definitely considered casual. I found a youtube on how to style oneself (as a woman) with an untucked shirt, but they don't show one with a pullover sweater. The model for the untucked shirt appears to be about Ms A's age. Personally, I think the main goal of dressing in that way in court is to make her appear youthful and to appeal to the cohort of youthful people who are supporting LM. If anyone is interested, here is the youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujzeAOnZa_w

If they keep this up at trial, their fashion choices are going to be stealing headlines from the trial itself, especially in all the more sensationalist news outlets or the ones that are more entertainment-oriented.

Maybe she just has poor taste, when it comes to clothing? Many intelligent people have poor taste and don't know it or are proud of not conforming to the mainstream. My experience, when I'm viewing them on TV. MOO

 

[GRT]

It has been noted by some pundits that the U.S. District Court in the Southern District of New York draws upon a different jury pool (a broader jury pool from more New York state counties) than the state jury pool, and that a wider jury pool might work in the federal prosecution's favor.

Not sure why there is speculation that the different jury pools would work in either side's favor.

Polls show LM has strong support in the public, especially the younger folks, so I suppose a jury pool will resonate that support. Of course, the attorneys will do their best to weed it out during voir dire.

But, like you, I'm not sure why pulling from a larger demographic would make a difference.

 

[waldojabba]

Some have remarked about LM's family not showing up. After mulling it over, I respect that. For a bunch of reasons, starting with a version of tough love. Maybe they won't show during the whole process.

I'll never forget Chris Watts' mother Cindy at his sentencing, supposedly giving a "victim's impact statement". After 5-10 minutes of recounting his superlatives, she turns straight to him in open court, with the family of the babies and mommy he killed and desecrated in the most horrid manner looking on.....and says to him, as part of the VIS... "I love you son, and I forgive you".

So, yeah, so far so good with LM family. I'm not against their helping financially with the defense.

IMO for the family to show up in court serves no purpose other than opening up a" can of worms' for them and creates a total media circus/CF.

If I am the Mom and show up in court - my picture gets splashed internationally and everybody chats about my outfit and speculates the hell out of everything else.. How is that helpful for the son.
I imagine the family is working behind the scenes and in touch with him. Why wouldn't they be. Family is family. They don't have to condone his abhorrent behavior to be supportive of him by buying him the best legal counsel etc.
IIRC the family likes their privacy, not much about them has been in the media, why would they now decide to not like their privacy. The son grew up in that family and best knows who they are and how things are likely to go.
Some have said he looked around the court like he was looking for his family. Sure, maybe. or maybe not. We know very little about the entire family dynamic.
I do think he is now on medication. If you watch him closely, esp in court with his lawyer, hIs facial expressions do not always match what is occuring and he seemed a bit out of it to me.
Was he on medication before he decided to go off the grid and concoct his plan? Is there a diagnosis? Maybe.
We will have to wait to see how things unfold but I still think this is headed for a plea - no question in my mind.
Just my current thoughts IMO