NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #12 *Arrest*

[CrimeSlog]

IMO, irrespective of all the noise and hoopla for lack of a better word, surrounding this case to include LM supporters, the slippery slope of “I don’t condone murder, but” stated by untold numbers on various SM platforms and elsewhere, many Americans’ overall disdain for the U.S. health insurance industry, disdain for corporate greed etc., etc., the bottom line in the NY state case of the murder of BT on a sidewalk in NYC’s Midtown comes down to the LAW. (I’m not opining on the federal criminal charges in this post as been busy IRL and behind on getting caught up on the threads and reading about those charges).

Stating the obvious, we have laws in this country for good reason.
LM broke the law when he ((allegedly), (moo he’s obviously the responsible party/perp)), premeditated and murdered another human being in cold blood. And regardless of feelings/emotions about the U.S. health insurance industry which I get it and understand, a system that for many years, decades, has been broken and in need of reform yes, the health insurance companies haven’t broken any laws by delaying and denying claims, and BT certainly didn’t break the law by doing his job.

Simply put, the law is the law and doesn’t take anyone’s feelings/emotions into consideration.
One can loathe the health insurance industry and BT for what he did for a living, be unsympathetic or indifferent about his violent death all they want but at the end of the day, as has been for many years to present day, again, it’s not against the law to delay or deny health insurance claims, whereas premeditated cold blooded murder IS against the law.

What LM did is not only against the law, it sends a dangerous message or trigger for who knows how many potentially unhinged/unbalanced individuals on the interwebs and general public that do agree with/condone LM’s way of handling grievances or societies/various monopolies/corporate conglomerate ‘problems’, to start shooting and killing others, employees/executives of companies in the streets they don’t like or agree with. Society run further amok with unbalanced individuals vigilantes doling out their own version of justice like it’s the Wild, Wild West. I know some feel this isn’t going to happen but I’m not so sure and even one unhinged LM copycat is too many. The last thing the world needs. This world is already scary and crazy enough, just look at all the threads here. So sad all the lives lost to violence.

I’ve mentioned before and think it worth repeating, maybe the LM supporters and “I don’t condone murder, but” should put their energy into advocating for themselves and their families by writing their Senators and Congress members encouraging them to listen to them about their concerns about healthcare/health insurance industry and implore them do something about it/enact laws to make it better, improve it instead of listening to the paid lobbyists. Maybe some have already started writing Senators/Congress and good on them if so. The more of the public they hear from, maybe they’ll start doing something about the broken system. One can hope.
I digress.

Back to the law, LM as the accused, barring a plea deal, will be rightly going on trial and per the U.S. constitution will be afforded due process via the U.S. judicial court system. The state/prosecution will present all their damning evidence against LM at trial and his lawyers will defend him vigorously as is their job/what they’re paid to do. (imo they’re only hope is to go either the NGRI route which good luck with meeting legal standard of insanity when the crime was clearly premeditated and LM running away shows he knows right from wrong, or imo more likely,
go with some yet unknown MH condition as a mitigating factor at sentencing).

The jury will be tasked with deciding LM’s fate based on the jury instructions they receive from the Judge/rules of evidence as per the law. If one or two LM sympathizers/supporters somehow manage to pass voir dire by lying their way through (I cannot see this happening as I expect the voir dire process for this case will be exceptionally careful/potential jurors vigorously and thoroughly questioned and scrutinized but you never know one might still get by) and gets on the jury, I would think they will quickly be found out by their fellow jurors once deliberations start or not long into deliberations and notify the Judge and Judge takes it from there/decides what will happen going forward.

I personally do not see Jury nullification happening because I do not believe 12 people will be able to get past voir dire lying their way through to get on the jury nor do I believe one or two who might be able to do so would be able to convince the rest of the jury members to nullify and besides as previously stated, these jurors would likely be reported to the Judge not too long after deliberations start when it becomes obvious to other jurors that they aren’t there to do the job they were selected for and tasked with based on the law and rules of evidence aka dereliction of duty, which is usually taken very seriously by the court/Judge, as it should be. Not saying jury nullification is impossible just that I personally don’t see it happening here. At most I can see possible hung jury based on one or two holdouts that possibly think the state didn’t prove their case BARD but even that I feel is a real long shot based on the evidence we already know about that the state has against LM, never mind what evidence they have that hasn’t and won’t be released to the public pre-trial, rightly so.
IMO, LM is toast and will be going away for a long time.

It’s going to be very interesting to see how everything plays out once the pretrial hearings begin that’s for sure, probably the understatement of the year lol.

At any rate, going back to reading everyone’s thoughts and getting my popcorn ready…

IMHOO

*ETA: just noticed the PC Affadavit posted above ha, going off to read that first.

**ETA 2: just read the first 5 pages of the PCA, looks like they got LM dead to rights, yeah he’s toast, burnt toast imoo!

I just want to say how much I really appreciate your post and thoughts. There are farrrr too many LM supporters/sympathizers/apologists/fans/etc and it literally make me furious.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think it's a personal vendetta. Not so much against UHC but against the health insurance industry as a whole.

I'm not sure that 'personal vendetta' is quite the correct term.

To me it seems more of a political anti-capitalist ideology he's pursuing.

 

[GRT]

I just want to say how much I really appreciate your post and thoughts. There are farrrr too many LM supporters/sympathizers/apologists/fans/etc and it literally make me furious.

I don't think there are that many "LM supporters." I've been engrossed in this case from day one, and I'm finding a clear distinction between those who actually support the murder and those who are simply pointing to a karmic outcome, given what they view as insurance industries committing murder as well.

The problem is that we can't separate BT's murder from the words written on the bullets or the backpack full of Monopoly money. They're all a part of this case--just as LM's notes are now a part of this case.

But yes, there are a few fans, mostly in their late teens or early twenties, from what I can determine. Bucking the system is common with that age group. Basically, they're 23 and good at it.

I enjoy hearing everyone's opinion, and I haven't gotten mad at any of them. Because people can only think what they think based on their life experiences.

I think it's good the mods created a separate thread here just for insurance horror stories.

In the long run -- this line of conversation doesn't even matter because it won't change the laws under which LM is prosecuted. He's going to be tried for murder.

 

[NuttMegg]

LM Address on PA. Police Criminal Complaint. Towson?

@detective.moon. @imstilla.grandma (this thread, post #11) @MassGuy
Thx for the related posts about MD. address LM (apparently) provided to LE.
Was owner of this home related to (e.g., parents of) LM; did LM live there when younger?

House was built in 1966, sold in 1987, again in 1993, then in June 2024.
If this is the right house (& if my math is mathin'), fam could have bought & moved in 1993. LM was born in 1998, so this prop’s sales history could "fit" timewise as his childhood & teen-years home. [ETA. ICBWrong.]

And w his drift from fam, LM may not have been aware house was on the market or sold, as @ detective.moon posted. Or LM may have given it to LE as a sort of “default” address, like college students sometimes do.
ICBWrong.

NOT sleuthing family, but sleuthing house & why LM might give that address.

___________________________
Details
IIRC, someone suggested that the June 2024 sale might have been a sale to a fam member. If a friendly deal w buyer-relative was contemplated, why would owner list thru a R/E broker & be obliged to pay commission? Plus MLS shows 2024 sales price as five percent higher than asking price, which causes me to kinda sorta doubt it was cozy family arrangement.

Listing the home w all furniture/furnishings removed (except some exercise gear in basement) tells me likely owner had already vacated before the 50+ listing pix were taken.

5/15/2024.... "Listed for sale" (w. listing px)
5/20/2024.... "Contingent"
6/6/20249".... "Sold" (w sold px ~ five percent HIGHER than listing px)
Realtor.com dates differ from above by a few days, but still show about 3wks from listing to close.

Per Zillow’s MLS data: split level, 4bed/5ba/2 car gar. home w ~4450 sq.ft., on .68 a/c.

If my parents had sold, without warning, the only house I had ever lived in with family, for the first 1/4 century of my life I'd be devastated.
Even with a warning, (obviously we don't know what path they took), he could have seen it as getting pushed out the door....at the most vulnerable time of his life.

I still have strong feelings about the house I spent just my first 7 years in, I visit it if I am in the PNW, last time a lady had to come out and ask, somewhat suspiciously, why I was staring at her house.

 

[citygirl]

I don't think there are that many "LM supporters." I've been engrossed in this case from day one, and I'm finding a clear distinction between those who actually support the murder and those who are simply pointing to a karmic outcome, given what they view as insurance industries committing murder as well.

The problem is that we can't separate BT's murder from the words written on the bullets or the backpack full of Monopoly money. They're all a part of this case--just as LM's notes are now a part of this case.

But yes, there are a few fans, mostly in their late teens or early twenties, from what I can determine. Bucking the system is common with that age group. Basically, they're 23 and good at it.

I enjoy hearing everyone's opinion, and I haven't gotten mad at any of them. Because people can only think what they think based on their life experiences.

I think it's good the mods created a separate thread here just for insurance horror stories.

In the long run -- this line of conversation doesn't even matter because it won't change the laws under which LM is prosecuted. He's going to be tried for murder.

This.

 

[acutename]

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/cb910ec413ebe6c9/b4aa3510-full.pdf

all his statements about "self-funded" and the "to the the Feds letter"....it almost sounds as if he was radicalized by some one who wanted to remain anonymous....not sure if I am over analyzing, but if I were obsessive and about to kill some one, I do not believe I would be busy explaining my obsession was solely my own IMO... of course I am always wrong about these folks because I cannot see into their heads.

 

[acutename]

I still wonder about the foreign currency that he had on him when he was arrested. At one point, had he planned to flee the country and then later changed his mind? He didn't head directly to a major airport but instead went to Altoona, looking for a hotel and a place to rest, maybe to regroup and plan his next steps at that point. Or just to take a shower and have a good night's sleep.

If he really was using money from an account he had, he has to keep withdrawing funds, or he has a limited amount (?)...he is leaving a trail all the time IMO

 

[acutename]

I don't think we know where that foreign currency was from, and I wonder if maybe he had it from his prior travels. That money and passport may not be evidence he was planning on fleeing, especially if he had been a transient for a long period of time (those months he was missing).

But yeah, it's entirely possible he did intend to flee the country, and didn't for one reason or another.

What's interesting is he wasn't ready to be captured when he was, which is evidenced by his use fake identifying information provided to the officers.

It almost seems as if he planned the act, but he did not plan long range- did not consider being a fugitive for the rest of his life IMO...getting another boring programing job with... a fake ID and a fake resume that could never be verified? As soon as he is recognized in Altoona, he is no longer controlling the narrative.

 

[acutename]

Yeah to me "I don't condone murder, but..." means that they actually ARE justifying murder. It's okay in this case, just one little exception.

I do not believe that even those people have thought ahead to say it would be OK to release LM into the general citizenry to see if he finds another victim he believes he is morally justified in killing. Who would it be? I guess not a fast food icon. IMO. But we have no idea who he could target next.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/cb910ec413ebe6c9/b4aa3510-full.pdf

all his statements about "self-funded" and the "to the the Feds letter"....it almost sounds as if he was radicalized by some one who wanted to remain anonymous....not sure if I am over analyzing, but if I were obsessive and about to kill some one, I do not believe I would be busy explaining my obsession was solely my own IMO... of course I am always wrong about these folks because I cannot see into their heads.

For some reason, that was my first thought upon reading the lengths he went to to state that he was in this alone. There could have been multiple people working together. We still have never figured out how he managed to know where BT would be, and the masked suspect (I personally can’t say for sure that it’s LM) was on the phone at one point before the shooting. Although it could have just been a fake call to explain why he was standing there. MOO.

 

[detective.moon]

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/cb910ec413ebe6c9/b4aa3510-full.pdf

all his statements about "self-funded" and the "to the the Feds letter"....it almost sounds as if he was radicalized by some one who wanted to remain anonymous....not sure if I am over analyzing, but if I were obsessive and about to kill some one, I do not believe I would be busy explaining my obsession was solely my own IMO... of course I am always wrong about these folks because I cannot see into their heads.

i feel like it makes sense for him to write it and it doesn’t have to point to other people being involved! i imagine the thought process would be something like “okay i’m writing this letter to the feds, what kind of things do i have to include? usually one of the first questions will be if they have to look for accomplices so i’ll
start with that”. not a red herring or much more to it.

maybe it doesn’t match with the idea we have of a cold blooded killer, but it seems like in a lot of his interactions he’s trying to be forthcoming and helpful. e.g. taking off his mask at the hostel and smiling when it’s not a great idea for him personally, his reddit post history, stories from people who knew him.

 

[Sunshynn]

maybe it doesn’t match with the idea we have of a cold blooded killer, but it seems like in a lot of his interactions he’s trying to be forthcoming and helpful. e.g. taking off his mask at the hostel and smiling when it’s not a great idea for him personally,

To me, he seems like a young man who meticulously planned this murder: for example doing his research on BT, UHC and the 'bean counter' meeting and making the gun, being in the right place and the right time, etc.

But he lacked forethought when it came to unplanned, spur of the moment, interactions - such as removing the mask to 'flirt' with the desk clerk and purchasing the breakfast bar and bottled water and discarding it while not wearing gloves.

I don't see it as being forthcoming and helpful just impetuous like most people his age. MOO.

 

[DizzyB]

i feel like it makes sense for him to write it and it doesn’t have to point to other people being involved! i imagine the thought process would be something like “okay i’m writing this letter to the feds, what kind of things do i have to include? usually one of the first questions will be if they have to look for accomplices so i’ll
start with that”. not a red herring or much more to it.

maybe it doesn’t match with the idea we have of a cold blooded killer, but it seems like in a lot of his interactions he’s trying to be forthcoming and helpful. e.g. taking off his mask at the hostel and smiling when it’s not a great idea for him personally, his reddit post history, stories from people who knew him.

Unless it was a lot longer, I’m not impressed by his Fed letter. He went to UPenn. I would have expected a kick butt persuasive essay. It could have touched on all of the points required when writing a persuasive essay, and it would have been published and discussed at length. Instead, it’s a murder of a man who checked all of Luigi’s boxes. We still don’t exactly know the motivation behind his choice.

 

[detective.moon]

Unless it was a lot longer, I’m not impressed by his Fed letter. He went to UPenn. I would have expected a kick butt persuasive essay. It could have touched on all of the points required when writing a persuasive essay, and it would have been published and discussed at length. Instead, it’s a murder of a man who checked all of Luigi’s boxes. We still don’t exactly know the motivation behind his choice.

yep, agree with you! i expected something better, it seemed rushed and just not great. i doubt that in the future anyone will rate this “manifesto” four stars on goodreads, lol.

 

[MassGuy]

Unless it was a lot longer, I’m not impressed by his Fed letter. He went to UPenn. I would have expected a kick butt persuasive essay. It could have touched on all of the points required when writing a persuasive essay, and it would have been published and discussed at length. Instead, it’s a murder of a man who checked all of Luigi’s boxes. We still don’t exactly know the motivation behind his choice.

It's harder to be persuasive when you yourself don't fully believe in the cause you claim to be for. A bunch of real suckers out there believe in a guy who doesn't even believe what they think he does. He's a charlatan.

 

[NuttMegg]

Don't shoot the messenger!

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[MassGuy]

Don't shoot the messenger!

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Oh man, please, please, please, let the defense use this argument.

Fingerprints from items recovered thanks to the help of surveillance footage. The ability to track him because they knew his starting point, and that distinctive bag. The bullet casings matching the gun he had in his possession. His confession notes. His fingerprints at the scene. His DNA will be found all over the place. The same fake ID used to check into the hostel found on his person, and he lied to police, attempting to use that false identification. The potential for his cell phone and laptop to provide further evidence.

Scott will get one right eventually, but it won't be this one.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Don't shoot the messenger!

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ha!! are you carrying a white flag...

 

[Arkay]

It's harder to be persuasive when you yourself don't fully believe in the cause you claim to be for. A bunch of real suckers out there believe in a guy who doesn't even believe what they think he does. He's a charlatan.

I agree.

I don’t think he had a cause. I think he had an excuse.

The deed formed in his mind and the target came later. Just how I see it, personally.

JMO

Happy New Year to everyone.

 

[GRT]

You can bet on many things. But you CAN'T bet on Luigi!

<modsnipped: Removed link to random / non approved site>

You can bet on all sorts of things -- but you can no longer bet on outcomes concerning Luigi. Federal regulators from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC).

"On December 13, all wagers related to Magione vanished from the sites. According to Bloomberg, Kalshi removed the Mangione-related wagers from its sites after it received a “notice from…regulators.” The outlet writes that the CFTC “bans futures trading linked to crimes including assassination, terrorism, and war if the agency decides the so-called events contracts are against the public interest.”