NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #4

[Arkay]

The hostel thing - this was an assassin on a budget. My $0.02.

SBM

This may be true, but IMO he chose an uptown hostel because there would be fewer questions and less onerous security. The vibe is more laidback and the customers are transient.

Nobody would look at him sideways.

He did have a pricey backpack and an idiosyncratic, expensive gun, so that IMO reinforces that the chief value of the hostel was to be more off-the-grid than in a hotel.

IMO

 

[caradana]

Fair but I’m specifically trying to highlight Express Service because of its short distance and purpose to just get people across the bridge quickly. On the Megabus-style rides you’re describing there’s usually someone from the bus company checking passengers in and people tend to have to wait around longer for those busses because they come less frequently so there’s more time for riders, bus driver, second helper to notice other riders - not to mention that the rides themselves are longer so there’s more time to observe other riders. On the Express Service shuttles they come so frequently that there’s less waiting around with other riders, and the other riders will not pay attention to you.

If I ever need to get out of NYC urgently I am totally DMing you!!! All solid points, well stated.

 

[whitelilac]

^ what's intriguing to me is there are too many mistakes in an otherwise disciplined killing and escape....
dropping the water bottle, wrappers, dumping or losing the phone, the item placed on the garbage bag beside the sidewalk, we will see about the backpack if it's useful too.
One mistake/accident is understandable but here it's as though it didn't matter to him as though he knows they won't lead to him as solid evidence.

The REAL mistake though was removing the mask, not even considering there was a camera which is normal in a reception area. The girl must have charmed him out of thinking.......a weakness.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

This case is fascinating to me, I think because of how brazen it was to pull this off and how much planning went into it.

The longer time goes on the more I’m thinking he preplanned every second of this. Right down to the backpack in Central Park and whatever (if anything) he left inside of it. Every move seems to be another step to throw off investigators. And it’s working.

 

[snarast]

^ what's intriguing to me is there are too many mistakes in an otherwise disciplined killing and escape....
dropping the water bottle, wrappers, dumping or losing the phone, the item placed on the garbage bag beside the sidewalk, we will see about the backpack if it's useful too.
One mistake/accident is understandable but here it's as though it didn't matter to him as though he knows they won't lead to him as solid evidence.

The REAL mistake though was removing the mask, not even considering there was a camera which is normal in a reception area. The girl must have charmed out of thinking.......a weakness.

Yes the dropping of potentially DNA-containing material so generously is a red flag. Why didn’t he just wrap those signed bullets with used chewing gum?

 

[KaylynnCouture]

^ what's intriguing to me is there are too many mistakes in an otherwise disciplined killing and escape....
dropping the water bottle, wrappers, dumping or losing the phone, the item placed on the garbage bag beside the sidewalk, we will see about the backpack if it's useful too.
One mistake/accident is understandable but here it's as though it didn't matter to him as though he knows they won't lead to him as solid evidence.

The REAL mistake though was removing the mask, not even considering there was a camera which is normal in a reception area. The girl must have charmed out of thinking.......a weakness.

But that’s what I’m saying. Are they mistakes? Or are they each carefully planned to send investigators down a dead end trail and buy himself more time to get far, far away?

 

[snarast]

This case is fascinating to me, I think because of how brazen it was to pull this off and how much planning went into it.

The longer time goes on the more I’m thinking he preplanned every second of this. Right down to the backpack in Central Park and whatever (if anything) he left inside of it. Every move seems to be another step to throw off investigators. And it’s working.

He could also have left the bike to an accomplice, I suppose. That would throw things off.

 

[wibbleflea]

Is he in a social circle that makes it unlikely for him to be identified? You’d expect the photos of his distinctive and recognisable face to have resulted in many calls confidently naming the same person – enough to quickly put him at the top of the suspect list.

Even if he’s in a supportive environment now (people who feel as he does about what his victim represents), what about childhood friends? Family friends? I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that he lives outside the US but even that doesn’t quite explain things.

Perhaps the name really is known to NYPD (beyond a reasonable doubt) and the rest is now logistics. Or is there a possibility that something taken for granted as publicly reported evidence in this case is not as it seems?

 

[Oceans1111]

Well said. As a fellow New Yorker (who similarly knows this area fairly well), I don’t think most people realize how uniquely tricky this was to pull off

can make the claim that he was not a “professional” hit man; but

 

[caradana]

^ what's intriguing to me is there are too many mistakes in an otherwise disciplined killing and escape....
dropping the water bottle, wrappers, dumping or losing the phone, the item placed on the garbage bag beside the sidewalk, we will see about the backpack if it's useful too.
One mistake/accident is understandable but here it's as though it didn't matter to him as though he knows they won't lead to him as solid evidence.

The REAL mistake though was removing the mask, not even considering there was a camera which is normal in a reception area. The girl must have charmed out of thinking.......a weakness.

Had an amazing debate about this tonight on a trading floor not far away, a few blocks. Envision a group of incisive people all sitting together unafraid to posit complex theories. Paring them down by belief system:

There is what I call the JFK group. This is the major league conspiracy theorists (“the CIA did it!”) - the ones who think this is political machination. Not my tribe.

There is the Jason Bourne group. They think this is all conspiracy, shooter was swapping out the Starbucks-purchased water for an identical bottle in his backpack that had the DNA of a dying patient on the mouth. The ones who believe events to date reveal significant training in evasion. Again, not my tribe, but I get how they got there.

There is the impassioned free-radical group. They theorize this is the kid or boyfriend of someone who died of a terrible disease surrounded by coverage denials, and they are avenging the pain, Joan of Arc style. That’s actually the theory I go with.

There’s also the disillusioned fired employee theory. I think we’d know the name by now if it were that. Discounting it for now.

Very open to hearing and learning from other theories!

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Is he in a social circle that makes it unlikely for him to be identified? You’d expect the photos of his distinctive and recognisable face to have resulted in many calls confidently naming the same person – enough to quickly put him at the top of the suspect list.

Even if he’s in a supportive environment now (people who feel as he does about what his victim represents), what about childhood friends? Family friends? I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that he lives outside the US but even that doesn’t quite explain things.

Perhaps the name really is known to NYPD (beyond a reasonable doubt) and the rest is now logistics. Or is there a possibility that something taken for granted as publicly reported evidence in this case is not as it seems?

Yes I agree. I also think it’s possible he heavily disguised his appearance somehow just to commit this. He’s on every national (and even some international) media broadcasts. So where are the people who are like “I saw him at the bus station!” “I sat next to him on the bus.” “I sold him a ticket at the counter.” “I drove him in my taxi.”

 

[Vegasgrl]

SBM

This may be true, but IMO he chose an uptown hostel because there would be fewer questions and less onerous security. The vibe is more laidback and the customers are transient.

Nobody would look at him sideways.

He did have a pricey backpack and an idiosyncratic, expensive gun, so that IMO reinforces that the chief value of the hostel was to be more off-the-grid than in a hotel.

IMO

And the hostel didn't require a CC to keep on file. It was a simple cash transaction with (fake) ID.

 

[getthefax]

Absolutely agree that he didn’t. My perspective is that I’m surprised that he didn’t. A man with this much prep, weeks - arrived in NYC before Thanksgiving - I’m surprised we’re not seeing major decoy theatric. What LE is finding seems … impulsive? (Bag dropped near the carousel, water bottle in trash …) - I don’t believe this man is impulsive. So I wonder what’s really going on.

I wrote about this in post #814, but I honestly think we are seeing a new kind of criminal--one that has existed in movies for awhile, but who has the mind and resources of a hacker. He identifies security flaws and is expert at exploiting them-- in other words, he's got an algorithm. His crime reminds me of other kinds of crimes (especially financial crimes, crimes in cryptocurrency, etc) that seem impossible to believe because they're so straightforward it makes them an elegant kind of genius. And leaves us scratching our heads.

He is doing the things he feels he needed to do and nothing else, IMO. He didn't need an automatic weapon (say what? bolt action?), he didn't need crazy decoys to get away (unless the cell phone deliberately left behind turns out to be one), and my feeling is (and this is MOO and I'm prepared to eat crow if I'm wrong) he doesn't think he needs to worry about having been seen, or leaving DNA, or whatnot. He doesn't view those as mistakes -- just as details he can ignore. I'd bet he at least *thinks* he's got a plan for that. I think he has help, and I think it comes from outside the country. If my hypothesis seems cinematic, it's because I think this crime and its solution are very deliberately cinematic.

If we have seen anything wild unfold over the past several years, it's that a private party can amass enough money that they can create a private space company with which NASA now must play ball. I believe this killer may have access to that kind of money and that breed of network, the kind where you can make anything happen, including making a killer vanish.

All MOO.

 

[lovesit]

Someone probably said this but the whole country has been looking for the style of that backpack, and the cops did a search and found nothing and they go back two days later and there it is? Hmm

 

[MassGuy]

This case is fascinating to me, I think because of how brazen it was to pull this off and how much planning went into it.

The longer time goes on the more I’m thinking he preplanned every second of this. Right down to the backpack in Central Park and whatever (if anything) he left inside of it. Every move seems to be another step to throw off investigators. And it’s working.

I think that’s giving him too much credit.

Parts of this crime were incredibly well planned and executed, there’s no doubt about that.

This guy is very intelligent, I have no doubt.

But a criminal genius he is not. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake, and every single one of these guys makes them.

His biggest mistake was committing this in New York City; that guaranteed his capture.

Showing his face sped up the process.

The DNA will finish him.

 

[Vegasgrl]

Is it unusual for UHC not to match the FBI reward in a situation like this?

 

[JoeFromLB]

Had an amazing debate about this tonight on a trading floor not far away, a few blocks. Envision a group of incisive people all sitting together unafraid to posit complex theories. Paring them down by belief system:

There is what I call the JFK group. This is the major league conspiracy theorists (“the CIA did it!”) - the ones who think this is political machination. Not my tribe.

There is the Jason Bourne group. They think this is all conspiracy, shooter was swapping out the Starbucks-purchased water for an identical bottle in his backpack that had the DNA of a dying patient on the mouth. The ones who believe events to date reveal significant training in evasion. Again, not my tribe, but I get how they got there.

There is the impassioned free-radical group. They theorize this is the kid or boyfriend of someone who died of a terrible disease surrounded by coverage denials, and they are avenging the pain, Joan of Arc style. That’s actually the theory I go with.

There’s also the disillusioned fired employee theory. I think we’d know the name by now if it were that. Discounting it for now.

Very open to hearing and learning from other theories!

Theory that BT had to be eliminated because he might have been thinking of telling the feds all he knew about the alleged insider trading and other fraud which they were reportedly investigating.

 

[MassGuy]

Someone probably said this but the whole country has been looking for the style of that backpack, and the cops did a search and found nothing and they go back two days later and there it is? Hmm

It’s a massive park, with dense brush in spots. They expanded the search area today, as they were sure it had to be there somewhere.

They brought in specialized teams, with specialized equipment.

It reminds me of a body being found in places that have already been extensively searched; something we see all the time.

Except this wasn’t a body. It was a relatively small backpack laying right where it should have been.

 

[wibbleflea]

There is the Jason Bourne group. They think this is all conspiracy, shooter was swapping out the Starbucks-purchased water for an identical bottle in his backpack that had the DNA of a dying patient on the mouth. The ones who believe events to date reveal significant training in evasion. Again, not my tribe, but I get how they got there.

I’ve entertained JB-style thoughts along those lines. The phone, bottle, unmasked photo, Starbucks visit and the item that seemed to be placed on (rather than within) the garbage don’t fit with the effort that went into the rest of this.

 

[MassGuy]

Is it unusual for UHC not to match the FBI reward in a situation like this?

They might now, although I think it will be entirely unnecessary.

In the beginning, they wanted real, actionable tips. People who saw something. People who interacted with this guy.

A huge reward could really only have hurt them, as that’s when you get the crazy tips from all over the country. That’s a nightmare for law enforcement, who wants high quality ones and does not want to waste time chasing down nonsense.

Now that it’s moved out of New York though, maybe that would be suggested.

I have no doubt that UHC would do that, as it could only help their image. Any reward would be a completely insignificant amount if money for them, so it’s not as if they’re being cheap.

I think they were initially told not to post a reward.