NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #9 *Arrest*

[MassGuy]

This is gold, you're going to want to watch this one.

 

[Sundog]

I’m wondering about this. It’s interesting the example Luigi gave was about steak, specifically. Steak often also involves using a knife to cut a slice, then eating the slice with a fork.

I read that the European way of eating steak is different from the American way.
In the European way, you keep the fork in the same hand throughout the meal, whereas the American method involves switching the hand that holds the fork after cutting.

Is his mother originally from Europe, perchance? Maybe she wasn’t being cruel, but was trying to teach him the different manner of eating it in the US vs Europe.

Just thoughts.

The Canadian way of using knife and fork to cut food is also different from the American way. No switching back and forth, as you mention.

 

[Big Ears]

Transportation order confirming that Mangione will be transferred from SCI Huntington to Blair County Prison on Dec 23 for preliminary hearing.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://pix11.com/news/crime/luigi-mangiones-fingerprints-match-water-bottle-found-near-shooting-sources/

 

[branmuffin]

What’s ironic is that he seemed to idolize the Unabomber, who also sought change through violence.

LM is smart enough to know that good old Teddy boy failed, but attempted to do the same type of thing.

So how he had any expectation he’d accomplish his goal is beyond me. But perhaps that goes to his mental state.

I believe the differences between the causes that Ted K was railing about and the ones that LM focused on were different because more Americans have experience with the negative impact health insurance companies can wreak on families - denied care, exorbitant fees, bankruptcies, etc. I doubt there's very many people in the US who haven't had issues with health care coverage.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Obviously, I don't know how old you are, or where you were educated on the early years. But I'm up there, starting school on the mid 50s, but I didn't experience any of the "forcing " that others are stating. I was always pretty ambi, but writing was always lefty. no one ever tried to change me.

I am a lefty, learned to write in the mid-late-60s in a progressive school district and was never pressured or forced to use my right hand, at school or at home.

A family story about my lefty grandfather who would have been learning to write in about 1905 was a different story, no surprise there.

However, several years ago I dated a left-handed man who learned to write around 1960 and who *was* physically restrained, at least for a while. And that was in San Francisco! I was very surprised to learn kids were still being restricted at that late date, especially in such a progressive community.

So yes, it is possible. And of course at home, pressure might *still* be applied in some families.

I think it's important to remember, in this case, that LM's comment about his mom forcing him to use his right hand wasn't especially recent and doesn't even sound like a serious complaint in my view; but was mentioned by him in a book review (? I think I recall?) years ago.

Personally, as awkward as it may be, especially at a large gathering with many people seated close together, to accommodate someone who is a lefty (there is a tendency to bump elbows with the person next to you, especially while cutting food with a knife which forces the elbow out), I would still rather accommodate that person by letting them sit at the end of the table, rather than have them flailing about with little control over their 'wrong' hand while wielding a sharp steak knife! MOO

 

[Tiff23fr]

July 1, 2024
Kathleen stated she last spoke to Luigi on 7/1/24.

…”Mother went on to say that she didn’t know where her son frequents in the city, and the report does not note the presence of threats or medical concerns.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/a...sf-missing-persons-report-united-19971586.php

 

[MassGuy]

The healthcare companies should be forced to convert to become nonprofits. At year end, any “profit” should be given back to the members/the insured via dividend.

That could be done in some sort of dictatorship, but that's impossible here.

 

[Herat]

dbm

 

[MassGuy]

July 1, 2024
Kathleen stated she last spoke to Luigi on 7/1/24.

…”Mother went on to say that she didn’t know where her son frequents in the city, and the report does not note the presence of threats or medical concerns.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/a...sf-missing-persons-report-united-19971586.php

That's a really long time to be out of contact. I wonder if missing persons reports were filed elsewhere.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

That could be done in some sort of dictatorship, but that's impossible here.

You're right, of course, but as long as healthcare is a for-profit concern in the US, outcomes will suck.

(Not directed at you MG) If you're for profit, your goal is to spend less than you bring in. In healthcare that will inevitably mean denying as many services as possible.

I'm not convinced that this was LM's motive, but I wouldn't be surprised. Even if he didn't have personal experience with this system, given his large extended family, he had to know someone who did.

Also the sentiments on here that "his family was rich, so what did he have to worry about?" are naive.
I've mentioned before that I used to work in a hospital billing department. I regularly encountered claims for a dependent of a fairly well known film star, who had an insurance policy through some actors' union.

That illustrated for me that even the "rich" are daunted by the exorbitant health care costs in this country.

 

[legalese]

Thank you! I've been curious about that for a few days.

If the prosecution is not required to present motive, but must demonstrate intent, then is it possible to exclude everything related to motive from the murder trial and win? Does the prosecution need anything related to motive to argue intent?

His notebook, found in his backpack, explains a plan with intent ... but that could lead to motive arguments.

CCTV and DNA prove stalking, shooting a stranger in the back, running away and hiding.

How often are jurors sequestered during murder trial in NYC?

It’s possible to exclude motive and still win, sure (as a hypothetical, no motive was established for the Las Vegas shooter, but had he lived, I’d imagine he would be convicted even without motive). IMO, motive and intent are so intertwined in many cases that it would be difficult to separate the two entirely anyway. But you’re right that it seems likely intent can be proven in this case without getting deep into arguments about health insurance, back ailments, etc. It will be interesting to see what both sides seek to use as evidence and what the judge allows.

Jury sequestration is very uncommon in NY now. I highly doubt it will happen in this case, but it’s possible.

 

[otto]

I'm curious about the timeline around the injury in July 2023. Did he change jobs at that time, or had he found another job? Were his travels to Japan for job interviews or to look for work?

Some articles say that he was hospitalized. His former roommate said that LM was laid up in bed for a week after a beginner surf lesson, and requested a better mattress.

Is the July 2023 injury the surfing injury?

Did he move out of that shared accommodation at that time?

 

[Kapua]

Lose billions by being ethical, moral, helpful and showing empathy...

Vs

Spend millions on security to protect your executives...


"We have a fiscal responsibility to do what's best for our shareholders..."

You have a moral responsibility to do what's best for your policy holders. SMH.

 

[otto]

If the injury occurred in Hawaii, and surgery was necessary, shouldn't he have had the surgery in Hawaii?

With elective surgery, is it more common to fly across the country for surgery to hand-picking doctors and treatment? If his surgery was elective, then does he really have a complaint?

Will he argue that the surgery should not have been elective? Was he seen by a back surgeon in Hawaii?

 

[otto]

You have a moral responsibility to do what's best for your policy holders. SMH.

Shareholders might feel differently about where moral responsibility lies. It's complicated - delicate balance of promised services versus abuse of services.

 

[Zinn]

People donated $30K to Luigi Mangione's defense as experts warn donors to be careful

Thousands of dollars have been donated to support the defense of Luigi Mangione, but experts urged donors to be cautious.

www.usatoday.com

Though Luigi Mangione comes from a wealthy and prominent family, anonymous online donors have chipped in thousands of dollars to fund his legal defense against charges connected to the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

One fundraiser on the Christian-based free speech fundraising platform GiveSendGo had raised more than $31,000 as of Wednesday afternoon on the way to a $200,000 goal. The New Jersey-based fund was created by a newly-formed "December 4th Legal Committee," possibly referencing the date of the shooting.

Amazing, but not necessarily in a good way.
Do people not understand how this looks ?
Imo.

I think something like this also happened after the Kyle Rittenhouse shooting. Or maybe I’m thinking of how Ricky Schroder and the the My Pillow guy helped pay his bond.

 

[otto]

It’s possible to exclude motive and still win, sure (as a hypothetical, no motive was established for the Las Vegas shooter, but had he lived, I’d imagine he would be convicted even without motive). IMO, motive and intent are so intertwined in many cases that it would be difficult to separate the two entirely anyway. But you’re right that it seems likely intent can be proven in this case without getting deep into arguments about health insurance, back ailments, etc. It will be interesting to see what both sides seek to use as evidence and what the judge allows.

Jury sequestration is very uncommon in NY now. I highly doubt it will happen in this case, but it’s possible.

I hope the Judge makes an early decision that motive is excluded.

I think that as soon as motive is mentioned, the defence will put the insurance industry on trial.

 

[Tiff23fr]

.

I'm curious about the timeline around the injury in July 2023. Did he change jobs at that time, or had he found another job? Were his travels to Japan for job interviews or to look for work?

Some articles say that he was hospitalized. His former roommate said that LM was laid up in bed for a week after a beginner surf lesson, and requested a better mattress.

Is the July 2023 injury the surfing injury?

Did he move out of that shared accommodation at that time?

This is the tightest I have been able to get the timeline on July 2023 so far.

Kenny told CBS New York that the motive might have been related to an accident that sent Mangione to an emergency room on July 4, 2023.

Fingerprints found on evidence match those of CEO killing suspect, NYPD says

Mr. Martin said that Mr. Mangione left Hawaii in the summer of 2023, presumably for an operation on his back. In August of that year, Mr. Martin said, he checked in via text to see how his friend was doing, “and he sent me back pictures of his back surgery.”

Mr. Mangione left the co-living space after six months to return to the East Coast, where he told Mr. Martin he was planning to see his doctor. He returned to Honolulu afterward and rented an apartment in the same neighborhood.
Luigi Mangione's back pain: What we know about suspect's spinal surgery


In FEB 2024 he upgraded:
February moved into $4,000 p/m High Rise in HI
Exclusive | Luigi Mangione resided in this Honolulu apartment in the months before his arrest

How he was paying for his upgraded flat with reportedly no job, is yet to be answered.

 

[branmuffin]

Why was he going to hang around Altoona? Thankfully he screwed up his patient planning.

I think he was meeting up with someone there. I also wonder whether he had that cash while he was in NYC. I don't think he did. It would have been too risky to be carrying around all that cash. When LE said he had $10,000 in US dollars in actual fact he had 8K USD and 2K of another currency. EUR are the closest in parity to the US dollar.