Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Snoopster]

RSBM,

Given the other developments today:

Hegseth halts cyber operations against Russia, adding to an ugly pattern

and the previous "de-activation" (is that what Musk is calling it??) of USAID, I'll just copy & paste a response to a query someone asked me about the top item and its potential impacts based upon my own strategic level work experience:

Combine this with the pillage & plunder of USAID. The thing with USAID (Soft Power) is that the true issue is that a lot of black things are baked into their budgets; USAID pays for a lot of Intelligence networks for instance. They are were the ears on the ground around the world so to speak. They are also no more.

The world has now offically become a much scarier place - especially so if you happen to live in a democracy.

And, that means America and Americans too are at greater risk; it's FVEY allies and (former??) NATO allies will now be much more averse to sharing intelligence with it.

Sad times.

So suffice to say, the signs are there that 47 is clearly aligning with Putin and ergo Russia. IMO.

This.

Clearly the Trump administration has aligned with Putin.

I was addressing the choice of years the poster chose., not the length of war. The current invasion started in 2022. There was no war during Trump's previous term. Zelensky admitted this during the press conference.

I'm very verse in Ukraine past history. Lots of time reading including all the agreements.

In all those years the US has never agreed to send troops nor any other nation.

Just because Zelensky ask Trump for military support doesn't mean we are obligated. He thought he could use minerals as leverage. It didn't work. The minerals are not worth sending in troops. The deal is no longer of interest with those conditions. He presented the same deal to France in October prior to meeting Trump in Florida in Nov even before he was sworn in. He received a hard NO from France.

Let's see what the Europeans plan. They have stepped up with a very nice donation of missiles.

The US signed a economic investment deal with Taiwan today. They have rare Earth minerals. We've moved on, he should too.
Moo...

No one is criticizing the USA for deciding not to send troops. they are criticizing the USA for telling Ukraine that they should give in to the abuser and blaming them if they don't.

And then we hear comments about Trump taking Greenland using force and taking over the Panama Canal. He's clearly got aggressor designs himself. What kind of democratic leader says things like that? Please tell me.

 

[Vern]

...

Hearing all the comments about Americans and the blame that you place on the US, is hurtful. I begin to wonder why we do anything for other countries if they feel this way about us.
Moo

RSBM,

It's a very recent feeling.

Probably has a lot to do with overturning/ignoring/not honouring International Agreements such as the Budapest Memorandum or the Canada/US/Mexico trade agreement that he himself negotiated and signed as 45.

Calling the victim of an invasion the perpatrator. Calling that elected President a Dictator and tossing their nation under the bus. Calling a Prime Minister his 51st Governor. Threatening to Annex Canada, Greenland, Panama --- you know other sovereign democratic nations. Perhaps that doesn't feel very "friendly" to us. Yet we are the problem? Just a thought.

 

[Simply Southern]

What I think Taiwan is actually doing is (understandably) trying to keep its independence. Last week the US removed "we do not support Taiwan independence" from its govt fact sheet, this week it is business-dealing with Taiwan. China is peed off.


"We urge the U.S. to ... stop emboldening and supporting Taiwan independence and avoid further damaging China-U.S. relations and the peace and stability of the Taiwan Strait,"

China says Trump admin's change to U.S. fact sheet on Taiwan "further damaging" regional peace

China says the Trump administration has "gravely backpedaled" the U.S. position on Taiwan by removing a short clause in an online fact sheet.

www.cbsnews.com

imo

And we are trying to help them, and they are grateful and we are grateful.

It was a strong move of support from the US to enter this agreement. China knows we're going to stand with Taiwan.

China is the US largest threat. They're taking our manufacturing jobs, they pay their labor force cents on a dollar. They're the ones that we need to be afraid of they want to take over the world.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

This.
And, the USA has
Clearly the Trump administration has aligned with Putin.

No one is criticizing the USA for deciding not to send troops. they are criticizing the USA for telling Ukraine that they should give in to the abuser and blaming them if they don't.

And then we hear comments about Trump taking Greenland using force and taking over the Panama Canal. He's clearly got aggressor designs himself. What kind of democratic leader says things like that? Please tell me.

What is the n't the European countries doing the same thing right now as we speak? Aren't they trying to come up with a plan to negotiate a peace deal. It's all in the European news. Do you feel the European nations are trying to force Ukraine into a deal with the abuser?

If the US was aligned with Putin. We 100% would be buying rare Earth minerals. It's been reported in the news. Probably rumor, has offered the US unlimited amounts of rare earth minerals. They need money I bet we could get them cheap. We wouldn't be trying to help Taiwan and Ukraine out.

Moo...

 

[Snoopster]

And we are trying to help them, and they are grateful and we are grateful.

It was a strong move of support from the US to enter this agreement. China knows we're going to stand with Taiwan.

China is the US largest threat. They're taking our manufacturing jobs, they pay their labor force cents on a dollar. They're the ones that we need to be afraid of they want to take over the world.

Moo

USA has just proven themselves to be fickle. Whoever pays them they will support. It's not based on morals anymore. It's based on money.

Just like their new domestic policies. Pay the rich. Take from the poor. Reduce regulations so that others can abuse everyday citizens. Cut down on oversight organizations? Public health, pshaw. Fema, pshaw. Weather service...who cares about hurricanes, tornadoes and wildfires? Safe air travel...who needs it? National parks...forget-about-it. Business Ownership Information...delete transparency. Money launderers and oligarchs are welcome! JMO. But all of these cuts are true!


Trump keeps dangling threats over many countries. He's a bully.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAR 3, 2025

Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick claims US-Ukraine mineral deal to be signed

The United States and Ukraine are making progress on a key mineral agreement that could strengthen long-term economic ties and pave the way for further security assistance, U.S. Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick said on March 3.

kyivindependent.com

Fitzpatrick, who represents Pennsylvania and serves as the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the Environment, and Cyber, announced the development on social media following a conversation with Andriy Yermak, chief of staff to President Volodymyr Zelensky.

He described the discussion as "lengthy and productive" and expressed confidence that the deal would be finalized soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896663350370566156

 

[Snoopster]

What is the n't the European countries doing the same thing right now as we speak? Aren't they trying to come up with a plan to negotiate a peace deal. It's all in the European news. Do you feel the European nations are trying to force Ukraine into a deal with the abuser?

If the US was aligned with Putin. We 100% would be buying rare Earth minerals. It's been reported in the news. Probably rumor, has offered the US unlimited amounts of rare earth minerals. They need money I bet we could get them cheap. We wouldn't be trying to help Taiwan and Ukraine out.

Moo...

No, it's clear that Europe stands behind Ukraine and aren't encouraging them to give in to the aggressor. Please read any foreign media and you will see that. It's unequivocable. They stand with the fight for Ukraine sovereignty, as any democratic nation would do.
So how democratic is the USA now? They alone, are siding with dictators. They stand with Russia and North Korea (the so-called Axis of Evil).

 

[Simply Southern]

Regarding your first sentence...
Other countries have stood by Ukraine and not sold out to Russia. It's the US that voted with Russia at the UN. It's the US that has blamed Ukraine for being a victim. It's not about whether the US will give further support, it's about how they treated Zelensky and Ukraine and how they me with Russia to decide the future of the invaded country!
No other democratic nation has done that. No other democratic nation has sided with the invader of a sovereign nation. Something that the USA used to say they stood for. It's clear that the current US government doesn't stand for democracy anymore. It's got nothing to do with the USA saying they won't provide more money. It's about switching sides.

Anyone that watched the entire video, will say we treated him extremely well. The media only pulled out a minute or less of a 1 hour meeting. Trump allowed him to ramble on and ramble on. He was here for a economic partnership. He went completely off message tried to force the US to provide him security.

Yes Russia invaded Ukraine. It depends on how a person interprets the 6 months prior to the invasion. Putin clearly stated he invaded when they sought NATO membership. He about NATO would put nuclear missiles back in Ukraine. That's a lot to the backstory.

We're saying we won't provide any more money. Biden sent all the money all of it every single penny Congress awarded to Ukraine. In November and December. He wanted to make sure Ukraine received it. It was in the US papers. Biden announced he was doing it to make sure that the money was not withheld, it was one of his final accomplishments. So are we withholding money, no. The budget runs out March 14th. That is very little money, in any of these accounts.

We haven't switched signs. We may have voted differently, but we've continued to send military arms. I think the only reason that they didn't receive all the military arms prior to the inauguration was they were being manufactured.


Moo

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

What I think Taiwan is actually doing is (understandably) trying to keep its independence. Last week the US removed "we do not support Taiwan independence" from its govt fact sheet, this week it is business-dealing with Taiwan. China is peed off.


"We urge the U.S. to ... stop emboldening and supporting Taiwan independence and avoid further damaging China-U.S. relations and the peace and stability of the Taiwan Strait,"

China says Trump admin's change to U.S. fact sheet on Taiwan "further damaging" regional peace

China says the Trump administration has "gravely backpedaled" the U.S. position on Taiwan by removing a short clause in an online fact sheet.

www.cbsnews.com

imo

Thank you for the link.

That has nothing to do with minerals or Trump blackmailing anyone, like the OP said. That deal with Taiwan was started under the Biden administration. Nobody accused Biden of blackmailing anyone. lol I will try to find a link to support my statement.

ETA- Link Giant chipmaker TSMC to spend $100B to expand chip manufacturing in US, Trump announces

WASHINGTON (AP) — Chip giant Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. plans to invest $100 billion in the United States, President Donald Trump said Monday, on top of $65 billion in investments the company had previously announced.

TSMC, the world’s biggest semiconductor manufacturer, produces chips for companies including Apple, Intel and Nvidia. The company had already begun constructing three plants in Arizona after the Biden administration offered billions in subsidies. Its first factory in Arizona has started mass production of its 4-nanometer chips.

Trump, who appeared with TSMC’s chief executive officer C. C. Wei at the White House, called it a “tremendous move” and “a matter of economic security.”

 

[Simply Southern]

No, it's clear that Europe stands behind Ukraine and aren't encouraging them to give in to the aggressor. Please read any foreign media and you will see that. It's unequivocable. They stand with the fight for Ukraine sovereignty, as any democratic nation would do.
So how democratic is the USA now? They alone, are siding with dictators. They stand with Russia and North Korea (the so-called Axis of Evil).

Well unless Ukraine makes concession do you think Putin will sign a peace agreement? I'm hopeful, but realistic. Ukraine doesn't have any bargaining power,
Putin has nuclear power.

They may stand with Ukraine? It's easy to say we stand with Ukraine. The main question is are they going to put their soldiers into war with Putin? Are the citizens of your country going to be okay with that? There will be large casualties.

The US is not willing to put our soldiers in. The memory of our soldiers from Afghanistan is still too fresh in our minds.

Moo

 

[Charlot123]

Yup. The rest of the democratic world agrees.
They stand with the victim, not the abuser.

And Trump is busy announcing minerals deals with Taiwan (no doubt blackmailing them so that China won't invade), and economically blackmailing Canada in hopes that they will become the 51st state so that they can take Canada's natural resources.

It's not about caring about democracies. It's just plain greed. What happened to being a guiding light?
(Sorry that I'm frustrated, but I'm disappointed with the USA, who used to be a good friend. I have many wonderful American friends, but your government doesn't want us to be allies. There's nothing that I said here that isn't true.)

It is not blackmailing…
Sadly, Taiwan is quite an topic.
I have visited this island and it will break my heart if something happens to it.
Not the rare minerals
Its strategic position is very specific it is so close to my coast
This being said - the tariff war is ruining economies; it is ridiculous
We shall take a vacation to Mexico to support them and after that probably to Canada too

 

[gitana1]

I hope Zelenskyy will not argue with Starmer if he or other leaders don't give him everything he wants immediately.

I have my doubts that he is capable of doing that. JMO.

He’s defending the independence of his besieged nation and his brave countrymen. Man, I can just imagine what people said about American colonists who fought for their independence. Would they be called greedy? Selfish? Ungrateful?

Finally, the independence of Ukraine is crucial to world peace. Once the tenuous global balance of power is upset, that’s when the proverbial you know what hits the fan.
That was the situation before WWI and WWII.

 

[Snoopster]

It is not blackmailing…
Sadly, Taiwan is quite an topic.
I have visited this island and it will break my heart if something happens to it.
Not the rare minerals
Its strategic position is very specific it is so close to my coast
This being said - the tariff war is ruining economies; it is ridiculous
We shall take a vacation to Mexico to support them and after that probably to Canada too

I appreciate your input.

 

[gitana1]

Anyone that watched the entire video, will say we treated him extremely well. The media only pulled out a minute or less of a 1 hour meeting. Trump allowed him to ramble on and ramble on. He was here for a economic partnership. He went completely off message tried to force the US to provide him security.

Yes Russia invaded Ukraine. It depends on how a person interprets the 6 months prior to the invasion. Putin clearly stated he invaded when they sought NATO membership. He about NATO would put nuclear missiles back in Ukraine. That's a lot to the backstory.

We're saying we won't provide any more money. Biden sent all the money all of it every single penny Congress awarded to Ukraine. In November and December. He wanted to make sure Ukraine received it. It was in the US papers. Biden announced he was doing it to make sure that the money was not withheld, it was one of his final accomplishments. So are we withholding money, no. The budget runs out March 14th. That is very little money, in any of these accounts.

We haven't switched signs. We may have voted differently, but we've continued to send military arms. I think the only reason that they didn't receive all the military arms prior to the inauguration was they were being manufactured.


Moo

I’m not sure about that. We just ceased all offensive cyber operations against Russia.

 

[Snoopster]

Anyone that watched the entire video, will say we treated him extremely well. The media only pulled out a minute or less of a 1 hour meeting. Trump allowed him to ramble on and ramble on. He was here for a economic partnership. He went completely off message tried to force the US to provide him security.

Yes Russia invaded Ukraine. It depends on how a person interprets the 6 months prior to the invasion. Putin clearly stated he invaded when they sought NATO membership. He about NATO would put nuclear missiles back in Ukraine. That's a lot to the backstory.

We're saying we won't provide any more money. Biden sent all the money all of it every single penny Congress awarded to Ukraine. In November and December. He wanted to make sure Ukraine received it. It was in the US papers. Biden announced he was doing it to make sure that the money was not withheld, it was one of his final accomplishments. So are we withholding money, no. The budget runs out March 14th. That is very little money, in any of these accounts.

We haven't switched signs. We may have voted differently, but we've continued to send military arms. I think the only reason that they didn't receive all the military arms prior to the inauguration was they were being manufactured.


Moo

<modsnip> ... "it's about how a person interprets the 6 months prior." The rest of the democratic world disagrees with that view. Russia had no right to stop Ukraine from joining NATO. Russia had no right to invade a sovereign nation.

 

[branmuffin]

And we are trying to help them, and they are grateful and we are grateful.

It was a strong move of support from the US to enter this agreement. China knows we're going to stand with Taiwan.

China is the US largest threat. They're taking our manufacturing jobs, they pay their labor force cents on a dollar. They're the ones that we need to be afraid of they want to take over the world.

Moo

They didn't take your manufacturing jobs, American companies willingly pulled up roots in their manufacturing bases in the US and transported them to China. They benefit from the low wages they paid Chinese labor and made even more profits when they sold their products back in the US. The same reason car manufacturers opened up plants in Mexico. No one put a gun to the CEOs who made that decision and their shareholders love them for it.

 

[Simply Southern]

Here's a list of all the companies, starting with the ones that are still doing business IN Russia, as we speak, down to those that completely closed operations and hotfooted it outta there a couple of years ago. It's a long list.

Over 1,000 Companies Have Curtailed Operations in Russia—But Some Remain

som.yale.edu

Here's another article related to the same situation but from the reality of the tentatively imminent collapse of the Russian economy based on the experiences of CEOs of doing business in Russia. Any other president would see the landscape and realize that Russia really isn't in a position to negotiate terms, that the ball should be and is in both Ukraine's and the US's court, yet Trump because he fosters resentment when he feels he's been disrespected will screw the world with his plan.

Over 1,000 Companies Have Curtailed Operations in Russia—But Some Remain

som.yale.edu

What CEOs Know about Putin that Stumps Donald Trump

Putin is desperate for U.S. businesses to return to stave off his economic collapse, write Jeffrey Sonnenfeld and Steven Tian

time.com

Yes this was a big deal. US citizens were boycotting companies that would not pull out of Russia. My grandkids had a fit cuz we wouldn't need a McDonald's or Subway for months.

Putin that's all gas and rare minerals. He selling them to his Good buddies China, North Korea, Iran and others. Some European countries are still buying a small amount of gas.

He may be hurting, but he still got those nuclear missiles. He could start selling those off. I'm sure Iran in the market. The US just blew up a big site over there that had potential/suspected to manufacture a nuclear weapon. He's got options.

Whoever negotiate with Putin is going to have to be on cordial terms. He's not going to negotiate with somebody that's been out in public bad-mouthing him.
You can't call in the terrorist one day and pick up the phone and ask him to negotiate a peace till the next day.

I'm sure you can find many many more articles telling how bad the US is. And even more of Trump. I don't know why anybody would want to do business with us or be our allies.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... Look at the map. Just a matter of time until he invades another country. He's always going to be a threat. As long as he has nuclear missiles he has the upper hand.

I'm not ready to go to nuclear war right now. I'd like for my grandchildren to be able to live on Earth. I'm not sure people understand how severe the world situation is. It's not just Russia, it's China, it's North Korea it's Iran.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

I’m not sure about that. We just ceased all offensive cyber operations against Russia.

Has that been confirmed by DOD or the White House? The article I saw said unnamed source. I'm always suspicious of unnamed sources.
Trump's pretty up front. I think he would announce it if it were true. He's already got the label Putin lover.
It might be true...
Moo

 

[branmuffin]

Yes this was a big deal. US citizens were boycotting companies that would not pull out of Russia. My grandkids had a fit cuz we wouldn't need a McDonald's or Subway for months.

Putin that's all gas and rare minerals. He selling them to his Good buddies China, North Korea, Iran and others. Some European countries are still buying a small amount of gas.

He may be hurting, but he still got those nuclear missiles. He could start selling those off. I'm sure Iran in the market. The US just blew up a big site over there that had potential/suspected to manufacture a nuclear weapon. He's got options.

Whoever negotiate with Putin is going to have to be on cordial terms. He's not going to negotiate with somebody that's been out in public bad-mouthing him.
You can't call in the terrorist one day and pick up the phone and ask him to negotiate a peace till the next day.

I'm sure you can find many many more articles telling how bad the US is. And even more of Trump. I don't know why anybody would want to do business with us or be our allies.

Moo

I find it so sad when you see those iconic images of American GI's giving out Heshey chocolate bars to little Italians kids that had never had chocolate before and young girls running up and kissing them and the relief everyone must have felt knowing the war was over and the good guys won. Donald J Trump has effectively erased those images that the rest of the world held onto during all those years of rebuilding and right up till today. He has rewritten history because his ego was bruised. He is a vile person, whether he is the president, or not.