Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[MadMcGoo]

Continue the discussion here. Be sure to read the Admin/Mod notes and possibly take a few moments to review the rules of this site again. THANKS!

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Carrying forward post #1127 from the prior thread (I hope):

When you look at the countries in NATO and how many active duty servicemembers they have, the US has nearly half of ALL of them combined. When NATO agrees to provide security, how much of that burden would fall on the US? It would be a guess on my part so I'll say IMO "NATO" agreeing to provide security really means the US will provide security and some other countries might send some assets. It's my opinion the burden has heavily fell on the US many times, so I would imagine it's easy for the other countries to be in agreement that the US will basically agree to provide security.

That is a very good question @justtrish ….. and I am not sure of how to answer to that unfortunately. And not with regard to troops or security.

With regard to funding though, I did add in a post #1138 (above in the prior thread) some BBC information on NATO members and how funding is based on GDP (Gross Domestic Product). And so IIUC countries and members in good standing with a larger GDP would contribute more on a quantitative basis.

But as I am not a mathematician or economist so I can’t commit to a more detailed analysis. And would leave that to qualified experts.

By trade I spent 40 years in the chemical industry as an Organic chemist. Prefer qualitative measure. Rather than quantitative means. Apologies extended that I do really have any good answers. MOO

 

[JennieM]

Colossal stakes for Starmer's summit on Ukraine​

Trump Zelensky: Colossal stakes for Starmer's summit on Ukraine

Sunday's summit of European leaders in London, to be attended by Ukraine's leader, is shaping up to be crucial, the BBC's political editor writes.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LibraStarr]

If the US pulled out of NATO, there would be a financial struggle. Only the US and Poland pay the 2% and above. How long could Poland survive being the largest funder?

23 out of 32 NATO countries now meet or exceed the 2% GDP defense spending target, not just the U.S. and Poland.

This isn’t money paid to NATO; it’s what each country invests in its own military. The idea that Poland would somehow be left footing the bill is just misinformation.

Also, NATO as an organization has a separate budget for operations, and the U.S. pays about 16% of that, not the majority. NATO wouldn’t just collapse financially if the U.S. left, it would be weakened, but European countries already outspend Russia on defense.

Imo

Source:NATO Official Site

 

[SouthAussie]

More solar power being rolled out to Ukraine families near the front lines, so they can have a hot meal and charge their necessary devices.


One more family in Kherson region received Solar Energy Resilience kit. We are electrifying frontline communities in Ukraine one family at the time



Hope for Ukraine (fully funded by private donations)

 

[JennieM]

Press release

Prime Minister Keir Starmer to host leaders summit on Ukraine​

The Prime Minister will intensify his efforts in pursuit of a just and lasting peace in Ukraine by convening international leaders at a summit in London today [2 March 2025].

From:Prime Minister's Office, 10 Downing Street
Published 1 March 2025

The Prime Minister has this weekend reiterated his unwavering support for Ukraine and is determined to find a way forward that brings an end to Russia’s illegal war and guarantees Ukraine a lasting peace based on sovereignty and security.

The summit rounds off a week of intense diplomacy for the Prime Minister […]

The Prime Minister has been clear that there can be no negotiations about Ukraine without Ukraine […]

Discussions at the summit will focus on:

• Strengthening Ukraine’s position now – including ongoing military support and increased economic pressure on Russia.
• The need for a strong lasting deal that delivers a permanent peace in Ukraine and ensures that Ukraine is able to deter and defend against future Russian attack.
• Next steps on planning for strong security guarantees.

[…]

Prime Minister Keir Starmer to host leaders summit on Ukraine

The Prime Minister will intensify his efforts in pursuit of a just and lasting peace in Ukraine by convening international leaders at a summit in London today [2 March 2025].

www.gov.uk

 

[JennieM]

The UK has already been clear it is willing to support Ukraine’s future security with troops on the ground.

Prime Minister Keir Starmer to host leaders summit on Ukraine

The Prime Minister will intensify his efforts in pursuit of a just and lasting peace in Ukraine by convening international leaders at a summit in London today [2 March 2025].

www.gov.uk

 

[Deleted member 39678]

23 out of 32 NATO countries now meet or exceed the 2% GDP defense spending target, not just the U.S. and Poland.

This isn’t money paid to NATO; it’s what each country invests in its own military. The idea that Poland would somehow be left footing the bill is just misinformation.

Also, NATO as an organization has a separate budget for operations, and the U.S. pays about 16% of that, not the majority. NATO wouldn’t just collapse financially if the U.S. left, it would be weakened, but European countries already outspend Russia on defense.

Imo

Source:NATO Official Site

That's encouraging. It sounds like the US can easily cut back on it's NATO spending and let the Europeans pickup the slack. JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Russia has been at war with the West since the Bolshevik revolution. Even before, during the reign of Czars, there was disdain for Western countries and parliamentary rule. In the US and Europe, embassies and trade organizations served as espionage fronts in the 1920s. Some of those espionage fronts worked to overthrow and destabilize Western governments. Others worked to establish spy networks in Western countries, such as the Cambridge ring, among many others.

Russia sees itself as a permanent adversary of the US and Europe, and this goes back to the early 1920s, regardless of who is in power. Their main objective now, IMO, is to retake the former Soviet republics that are now independent, and to retake the Eastern bloc nations seized after WWII along with the Baltic countries. No negotiations that maintain the independence of Ukraine will be successful without military force. JMO

I read a piece about a renown Russian philosopher yesterday.


The Imperialist Philosopher Who Demanded the Ukraine War

The star speaker was Alexander Dugin, a scholar and a prominent proponent of the war who has been called the prophet of the new Russian Empire.

For Dugin, the greatest enemy of Russia is liberalism

A young man asked, “This liberalism thing—is it possible that concealed within it is some link to the Lord that will take it and bring it down?”
“Perhaps,” Dugin told him. “That’s why there are people who fight against the liberal world, even within the liberal world.”

“Maybe there is simply a certain substance that has flooded everything, all the brains,” the young man went on. “Then a flame is lit inside it by its offspring, which instantly turns the game upside down?”

The crowd looked befuddled, but Dugin cottoned at once. “Ah,” he said. “That would be Donald Trump!”

Whereas the Biden Administration opposed Russia’s imperial aggression, the Trump Administration appears willing to ratify it, if not to mimic it.

 

[Donswife48]

Zelensky confirms upcoming meeting with Trump

"I will meet with President Trump," Zelensky said in his evening address on Feb. 26. "It is important for me and all of us in the world that America's assistance is not stopped."

kyivindependent.com

February 26, 2025

Following a series of intensive negotiations, Washington and Kyiv agreed on a deal to establish a fund to which Ukraine will contribute 50% of proceeds from the "future monetization" of state-owned mineral resources, including oil, gas, and logistics infrastructure.

Ukraine's Cabinet of Ministers approved the decision to sign the mineral resources agreement on Feb. 26, Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The UK has already been clear it is willing to support Ukraine’s future security with troops on the ground.

Prime Minister Keir Starmer to host leaders summit on Ukraine

The Prime Minister will intensify his efforts in pursuit of a just and lasting peace in Ukraine by convening international leaders at a summit in London today [2 March 2025].

www.gov.uk

I hope Zelenskyy will not argue with Starmer if he or other leaders don't give him everything he wants immediately.

I have my doubts that he is capable of doing that. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I read a piece about a renown Russian philosopher yesterday.


The Imperialist Philosopher Who Demanded the Ukraine War

The star speaker was Alexander Dugin, a scholar and a prominent proponent of the war who has been called the prophet of the new Russian Empire.

For Dugin, the greatest enemy of Russia is liberalism

A young man asked, “This liberalism thing—is it possible that concealed within it is some link to the Lord that will take it and bring it down?”
“Perhaps,” Dugin told him. “That’s why there are people who fight against the liberal world, even within the liberal world.”

“Maybe there is simply a certain substance that has flooded everything, all the brains,” the young man went on. “Then a flame is lit inside it by its offspring, which instantly turns the game upside down?”

The crowd looked befuddled, but Dugin cottoned at once. “Ah,” he said. “That would be Donald Trump!”

Whereas the Biden Administration opposed Russia’s imperial aggression, the Trump Administration appears willing to ratify it, if not to mimic it.

Biden did such a good job stopping Russia's imperial aggression that Putin decided not to invade Ukraine.

But the opposite is what actually happened. JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

London. A meaningful and warm meeting with Prime Minister @Keir_Starmer.

During our talks, we discussed the challenges facing Ukraine and all of Europe, coordination with partners, concrete steps to strengthen Ukraine’s position, and ending the war with a just peace, along with robust security guarantees.

A principled statement of support from the Prime Minister and an important decision: today, in our presence, Ukraine and the United Kingdom signed a Loan Agreement. This loan will enhance Ukraine’s defense capabilities and will be repaid using revenues from frozen Russian assets. The funds will be directed toward weapons production in Ukraine. This is true justice – the one who started the war must be the one to pay.

I thank the people and government of the United Kingdom for their tremendous support from the very beginning of this war. We are happy to have such strategic partners and to share the same vision of what a secure future should look like for all.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895941753594638682

Switzerland remains firmly committed to supporting a just and lasting peace, while condemning Russia's aggression against a sovereign state. #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895701579854221442

Prime Minister Johannesen: Faroe Islands stand with Ukraine. We will continue to support the Ukrainian people and @ZelenskyyUA.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895582616495304905

 

[Donswife48]

Exclusive: The full text of the US-Ukraine mineral deal

The Kyiv Independent has obtained from a source in the Ukrainian government, the full text of the mineral deal agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine.

kyivindependent.com

Speaking to journalists on Feb. 26, Zelensky said the agreement was "well appreciated by our government officials," though he added it does not yet contain specific security guarantees for Ukraine.

"The important thing is that the agreement mentions 'partners,' and this fund is Ukrainian-American, not American," he added.

 

[Leilei]

I hope Zelenskyy will not argue with Starmer if he or other leaders don't give him everything he wants immediately.

I have my doubts that he is capable of doing that. JMO.

I hope nobody dogpiles on him for asking for common sense provisions.
IMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock Calls to Unblock Aid for Ukraine and Create Joint European Forces

Key statements:

A new era of lawlessness has begun, where we must defend the rules-based world order and the rule of law more than ever against the power of the stronger. Otherwise, no free country with a more powerful neighbor will be able to sleep peacefully.

Ukraine needs a comprehensive financial support package. I call on all democratic parties represented in the Bundestag to release the €3 billion in blocked aid.

The only way to protect against Putin’s aggression is through united European forces—otherwise, Russian troops could appear at the borders of the Baltic states or even Poland.

Ukraine is part of a free and democratic Europe. It is absolutely clear who the brutal aggressor is in this war and who the brave defender is, who is the perpetrator and who is the victim. No one desires peace more than the Ukrainians.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895906886467404239

Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Store calls on his government to increase financial support to Ukraine

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895867466120618234

 

[PommyMommy]

Russian Soldiers Revolt to Avoid Being Sent to War

More than 100 Russian soldiers who refused to fight were forcibly transferred from Chebarkul to Yekaterinburg and then attempted to be put on a plane to Rostov to be sent to Ukraine, Astra reports. They revolted and refused to comply.

These soldiers were under investigation for desertion. Among them are wounded and sick servicemen.

In video messages, they stated: "We don’t want to just die, this is lawlessness."Later, they lost contact. On March 1, they reported that they were forcibly sent to occupied Luhansk.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895886908946797024

 

[JennieM]

Trump’s moves test the limits of presidential power and the resilience of US democracy​

During his first six weeks in office, President Donald Trump has embarked on a dizzying teardown of the federal government and attacks on long-standing institutions in an attempt to increase his own authority.

He has pardoned those who attacked the U.S. Capitol to overturn his 2020 election loss, placed loyalists atop the FBI and military, and purged the Department of Justice, which dropped investigations against Trump allies. He declared control over independent agencies such as the Federal Election Commission, punished media outlets for coverage he dislikes and his allies suggested he could defy court orders.

Those who monitor democracy across the globe had warned that a second Trump term could endanger America’s 240-year experiment with democracy. His opening weeks in office have done nothing to dispel those concerns.

“Trump is using the classic elected authoritarian playbook,” said Brendan Nyhan of Dartmouth College, who joined more than 800 other political scientists in signing a letter warning that Trump is undermining the rule of law and the basic constitutional principle of checks and balances. “It’s almost embarrassing how crude it is.”

[…]

‘Undermining our democratic traditions’​

On the world stage, Trump and his administration have alarmed longtime allies in Europe over whether the U.S. remains committed to NATO and his siding with Russia in talks to end the war in Ukraine, a country the Kremlin invaded three years ago, and at the United Nations last month.

On Friday, Trump berated Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the Oval Office. Russian officials and many Trump allies expressed glee; European nations reacted in horror.

U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., said the close relations between the Trump administration and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s government amounted to an existential threat. “This Putin-Trump alliance means abandoning our allies, supporting authoritarianism and undermining our democratic traditions,” he said in a social media post.

The common theme throughout Trump’s moves is about expanding his personal power, said Josh Chafetz, a Georgetown law professor.

“It’s not even clear what it’s power in service of,” he added, noting that Trump has few strong ideological convictions.

[…]

Trump's moves test the limits of presidential power and the resilience of US democracy

During his first six weeks in office, President Donald Trump has worked to tear down the federal government and attack long-standing institutions.

apnews.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I hope nobody dogpiles on him for asking for common sense provisions.
IMO.

The problem with Zelenskyy is he is clueless and doesn't know when or how to discuss those provisions. Hence a ruined opportunity to end this war and to save lives of his own countrymen. JMO.

 

[otto]

I know what NATO is, thanks.

Boots were on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pretty sure they aren't NATO members.

The deal is nonsense for Ukraine if they don't have a guarantee of security, and that may not even require boots on the ground.

If you can't understand why a security guarantee is the minimum Ukraine should require for handing over it's future mineral rights I honestly don't know what to say to you. Other than you're plain, outright wrong.

Agreed. Any Shark Tank style deal offered to Ukraine by the USA seems like colouring outside the lines. The president of the USA has stated (bragged) for a long time that, as president, he could easily negotiate an end to the Russia war against Ukraine in 2-3 days, or less than a month. The world is waiting and watching that man in a shouting match on international TV as he negotiates for Ukraine's natural resources. That negotiation includes one sentence - give me your country's wealth. Full stop. He doesn't know how to stop the war, so he had a public temper tantrum. He is unable to do what he claimed was easy - failure.

This is a good, well laid out and fully referenced article explaining the situation, including why Russia is not interested in negotiation, why Russia cannot be trusted, and why Ukraine's only goal is to secure borders. If the USA has nothing to offer, they should stay out of it. Tantrums only diminish the president in the eyes of Russia, China and the global community.

Why Ukraine Shouldn’t Negotiate with Putin | Journal of Democracy

Many pundits cry for a negotiated settlement to end the war between Russia and Ukraine. But they misunderstand Vladimir Putin’s motives. The only just end to the war will be in the trenches…

www.journalofdemocracy.org