Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[STAGNUM]

The entire video. Important to watch from start to finish. Interesting that Zelenskyy is so diplomatic and thankful throughout. While Trump continues to stoke his own ego and yet all goes well until JD Vance decides that Zelenskyy is not thankful enough, wont let Zelenskyy get in a word edgewise. A slow moving train until the trainwreck. All Zelensky wants is assurance that Putin won't break his promises (again) and invade once again. The "deal" apparently provides Ukraine with no assurances.

 

[Stella123]

It was a great deal for Ukraine and that's why Zelenskyy rushed to Washington to sign it. Then he screwed the whole thing up. JMO.

Not the case - it wasn't a great deal. Zelensky explains that in the Fox news interview I linked earlier. That when it came to it, the US were not going to have a presence in Ukraine as had apparently been agreed as part of the minerals rights deal. He said Trump said the fact the US owned the assets would stop Putin invading those areas. Zelensky basically said - they don't know Putin, that won't stop him. What he wanted was US presence on the mineral rights areas the US would own.

It's a problem - because for any other country to have a presence in Ukraine, Putin would see that as a aggression from that other country. Although I believe there was talk of a Uk peace-keeping force as an option.

This is why some are saying Zelensky was ambushed - he went in expecting one deal and was presented with something else.

That whole "press conference" was a complete xxxx up if you ask me! Totally the wrong language for dealing with a President of a country suffering war. Talking about peace with Putin and diplomacy with Putin instead of actually calm chat about the details of the deal. It's as if it was deliberately televised to keep Putin happy. And to actually allow a Russian reporter into that press conference!

JMO MOO

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/media/tass-russian-state-media-oval-office/index.html

 

[Leilei]

Well I read the room on Friday. They're not afraid of Trump, Vance jumped right in to try to explain diplomacy and defend our president. Senator Rubio was clearly trying to control his emotions. You don't sit in the yellow chair and bad mouth the United States and the President and his posse not defend them.
The president, his cabinet, and the US Senate are the tightest group I've seen since I began voting. They are united, even the ones that don't like Trump are united for the good of the country. Moo

Do you have a link to the badmouthing of the US?
IMO.

 

[mickey2942]

I disagree. I feel that Zelenskyy is letting his people down. JMO.

Agreed. He is not a diplomat. Let the diplomats negotiate. Politicians are too narcissistic to be effective diplomats. The whole thing looked like a staged reality show to me. Let's hope someone with sense can help Ukraine end this war.

It is not about winning, or land, or who started it, it needs to be about the old, the young, people in Ukraine who have suffered enough.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

How was it a great deal for Ukraine?

Here's just a piece of it. The link will give you more information.

The agreed upon framework does not designate the rights of $500 billion worth of minerals revenues to the United States nor does it include a security guarantee for Ukraine. Rather, the agreement establishes a reconstruction investment fund with joint U.S. and Ukraine ownership. Ukraine will contribute 50 percent of all revenues earned from the future monetization of all Ukrainian government-owned natural resource assets into the fund.

It's good deal and Zelenskyy still wants to sign it.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he is ready to sign a stalled minerals deal with the United States in a thread on X on Saturday, in which he also urged the United States to stand strongly behind Ukraine amid its war with Russia, one day after his meeting with President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance devolved into a near-shouting match.

Breaking Down the U.S.-Ukraine Minerals Deal

The United States and Ukraine reached a landmark agreement to jointly invest in Ukraine's critical minerals and resources. This deal, the first of its kind, highlights minerals in President Trump’s transactional diplomacy.

www.csis.org

Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready To Sign Minerals Deal After White House Clash

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”

www.forbes.com

 

[HmmMysterious]

The entire video. Important to watch from start to finish. Interesting that Zelenskyy is so diplomatic and thankful throughout. While Trump continues to stoke his own ego and yet all goes well until JD Vance decides that Zelenskyy is not thankful enough, wont let Zelenskyy get in a word edgewise. A slow moving train until the trainwreck. All Zelensky wants is assurance that Putin won't break his promises (again) and invade once again. The "deal" apparently provides Ukraine with no assurances.

Wow at 45:08, Trump actually shoved Zelensky. Total bullying behavior. This was an ambush disguised as a press conference.

 

[Simply Southern]

Personally, I have been analysing what the real issue was with that White House meeting. The old thing that they just didn't understand each other. And I don't mean language, I mean they just didn't see each others point of view.

Zelensky is protecting his people, who have fought bravely and been through hell. So he was of course sensitive to any criticism of the position his country is in - when Putin is the aggressor. What he wants is US support.

Trump and Vance are talking about diplomacy and reaching a peace agreement. Fine. But when Vance started to criticize and say Zelensky was having to force people to fight, they were running away, and millions are dead (as if it's Zelensky's fault), this was grossly insensitive to someone who has been living in a war torn country. Zelensky didn't lose his cool but he did ask a direct question. What type of diplomacy was JD Vance talking about. Vance pushed Zelensky's buttons by being insensitive about the loss of Ukrainian lives, so Zelensky said talking loudly didn't solve anything (or something like that), which was when Trump chipped in to defend Vance and say he wasn't talking loudly. And the pair proceeded to tell Zelensky off.

I can see a point of view of Vance and Trump (albeit handled very crassly) that they think the war should end and a peace arranged. That is logical. It's just how is that achieved? I can see how Zelensky would feel he can't just capitulate after the hell Ukrainians have been through and are going through - and in any event it wouldn't be safe to capitulate.

So IMO - quite simply they were just not on the same page, couldn't see each others viewpoints and it got personal. I don't even know why J D Vance was there - he just seemed there to provoke. JMO MOO

"Exuding preternatural obnoxiousness, Vance said Joe Biden’s approach had failed and that diplomacy was the way forward. Noting Russia’s betrayals of trust in the past, Zelenskyy challenged: “What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?”

Diplomacy dies on live TV as Trump and Vance gang up to bully Ukraine leader

US president said his horrific blow-up would make ‘great television’ – the White House has never seen anything like it

www.theguardian.com

Zelenskyy wasn't there to express his views, present photos, debate security, or bad mouthing US. He wasn't invited to discuss the war. He was invited to sign a partnership agreement for future economic income for Ukraine. Initially there was not going to be a public presentation. The prime minister of France made a special request for President Trump to host Zelenskyy and make a public presentation. I guess he owes us one now.

He derailed the entire event and use media/air time to try to railroad the US into military support. After repeatedly being told NO, not only by this administration but every prior administration. Biden wouldn't send in ground troops. Obama wouldn't send troops, he wouldn't send military aid but did sent sheets.

You are correct, Zelenskyy was not on the same page as the meetings agenda. He wasn't even in the same book.

Moo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Agreed. He is not a diplomat. Let the diplomats negotiate. Politicians are too narcissistic to be effective diplomats. The whole thing looked like a staged reality show to me. Let's hope someone with sense can help Ukraine end this war.

It is not about winning, or land, or who started it, it needs to be about the old, the young, people in Ukraine who have suffered enough.

Yes. Zelenskyy is not always looking forward like he should.

He wants to go all the way back to the Obama administration and complain about how he let Ukraine down. That's not going to end this war and stop the deaths. JMO.

 

[Stella123]

That's the issue - your second link. Zelensky wants the US to "stand strongly behind Ukraine". Trump got angry at that saying he wants to broker peace - not take sides.

That is the issue! They want different things.

Edit: Yet they also want the same thing but don't understand each other and can't communicate effectively.

I don't agree with all this blaming of Zelensky. He was invited to the Us and treated badly!

JMO MOO

 

[Simply Southern]

It's a company, not the country, who made this decision.
And other companies may follow, in other countries that have ports that our ships and subs pull into.
There are no US Navy assets if there is no fuel to be had at those overseas ports.
IMO.

Then maybe we can rally our allies to boycott the company. Moo ...

The only reason I could think that our US military ships would be in Norway is to protect our of our NATO allies. We certainly have no other reason to be there. They are only hurting and putting Norway and other countries at risk. So vindictive. Moo

 

[STAGNUM]

It was the same for Britain in WWII. The only reason we weren't invaded by Hitler was luck in the end - Hitler turned his attention elsewhere which gave Britain chance to get organised. But the spirit of any country will be strong against any invader.

Of course Zelensky doesn't want a war and wants peace. What he needs is help to stop the war. He strongly believes Putin can't be trusted in any agreements or deals - which may well be true.

To achieve a peace deal, it needs someone VERY diplomatic and to put security in place for both Russia and Ukraine. JMO MOO

Exactly. Trump is only interested in the monetary aspect. Nothing in the deal provides long term security for Ukraine or brings back hostages. If you listen to Trump very carefully his wording is very pro Russia. Putting Russia first when talking about dead soldiers, etc. It is no wonder Zelenskyy was very adamant on long term security. Trump and Vance wanted to hear none of that as it would spoil whatever cease fire :wink wink" they had with Putin. I never heard a word from Zelenskyy about borders or the like, he did talk about hostages, which could very well be residents of border cities being held hostage and starving. I am 100% with Zelenskyy and Ukraine. This is a sad day for the USA.

 

[Stella123]

I disagree. I feel that Zelenskyy is letting his people down. JMO.

I think you'll find you're in a minority there, with respect. Strength of support for Zelensky since that meeting has been absolutely massive - in Britain, in Ukraine and from most European leaders. People have been posting support all over Twitter. Zelensky's popularity has risen in Ukraine as a result.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Not the case - it wasn't a great deal. Zelensky explains that in the Fox news interview I linked earlier. That when it came to it, the US were not going to have a presence in Ukraine as had apparently been agreed as part of the minerals rights deal. He said Trump said the fact the US owned the assets would stop Putin invading those areas. Zelensky basically said - they don't know Putin, that won't stop him. What he wanted was US presence on the mineral rights areas the US would own.

It's a problem - because for any other country to have a presence in Ukraine, Putin would see that as a aggression from that other country. Although I believe there was talk of a Uk peace-keeping force as an option.

This is why some are saying Zelensky was ambushed - he went in expecting one deal and was presented with something else.

That whole "press conference" was a complete xxxx up if you ask me! Totally the wrong language for dealing with a President of a country suffering war. Talking about peace with Putin and diplomacy with Putin instead of actually calm chat about the details of the deal. It's as if it was deliberately televised to keep Putin happy. And to actually allow a Russian reporter into that press conference!

JMO MOO

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/media/tass-russian-state-media-oval-office/index.html

If Zelenskyy feels it's a bad deal for Ukraine he needs to grow a pair and say so and not keep saying he wants to sign it.

He just said again today that he wants to sign the deal. Link by me above. JMO.

 

[keek]

I am sure that some are supportive, but I think that the stronger emotion is fear. They are afraid of Trump and his vicious attacks on those he deems to be traitors when they voice opposition. It is a very dangerous time for political leaders.

No stand up guys in that lineup. Get rid of them, they're not for America, just themselves. Weasels.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think you'll find you're in a minority there, with respect. Strength of support for Zelensky since that meeting has been absolutely massive - in Britain, in Ukraine and from most European leaders. People have been posting support all over Twitter. Zelensky's popularity has risen in Ukraine as a result.

I know I'm in the minority here. But I'm not alone in feeling the way I do. JMO.

 

[STAGNUM]

Well I read the room on Friday. They're not afraid of Trump, Vance jumped right in to try to explain diplomacy and defend our president. Senator Rubio was clearly trying to control his emotions. You don't sit in the yellow chair and bad mouth the United States and the President and his posse not defend them.
The president, his cabinet, and the US Senate are the tightest group I've seen since I began voting. They are united, even the ones that don't like Trump are united for the good of the country. Moo

You need to watch the entire ~45 minute video. There was no disrespect by Zalenskyy whatsoever. I was hoping Rubio, who looked uncomfortable as hell would turn out to be more man than mouse on his 9PM presser. But sadly, still a mouse. Trump, Vance, Rubio and that "Brian guy" are whiney 4 year old man-children. So much for "GOP Alpha Males". Putin is having a good laugh right now.

 

[Fairy1]

If Zelenskyy feels it's a bad deal for Ukraine he needs to grow a pair and say so and not keep saying he wants to sign it.

He just said again today that he wants to sign the deal. Link by me above. JMO.

He wants security protections in return. Is that so difficult to comprehend? He's dealing with a madman who has reneged on "deals" over and over and over again. He's not stupid enough to believe this time will be different. Neither should we be. Russia is NOT the good guy here.

 

[Cedars]

Trump got angry at that saying he wants to broker peace - not take sides.

So, just how does that work, Donald?

You want to 'broker peace' but you berate and expel one of the 'sides' when they don't instantly submit to your demands....

I wish the Nobel Peace Prize committee would send him some kind of 'guidelines for prospective peace brokers'.

"Be prepared that the two sides don't trust each other. Don't react to this by yelling and shouting 'good riddence' as you kick one of them out.

"Doing so in public will immediately disqualify you from any Nobel Prize."

 

[Stella123]

Russian response to the White House meeting with Zelensky suggests peace is not really on the cards with Russia - any deal would have to be in Russia's favour.

I don't think Zelensky's life would be safe in Ukraine after any peace deal, even with "secure borders" somehow. He would be bumped off somehow.

Assuming it wasn't intentional, Trump has unfortunately pleased those in Russia by televising that whole charade. Zelensky was called an "ignorant pig"

JMO MOO

"Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who is now deputy head of Russia's Security Council, called Zelensky an "insolent pig" who had received "a proper slap down in the Oval Office".

"Historic, Insolent Pig": What Russia Said After Trump-Zelensky Fight In Oval Office

Russia's foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova on Friday said US President Donald Trump showed "restraint" by not hitting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky during their shouting match in the White House.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Simply Southern]

That's the issue - your second link. Zelensky wants the US to "stand strongly behind Ukraine". Trump got angry at that saying he wants to broker peace - not take sides.

That is the issue! They want different things.

Edit: Yet they also want the same thing but don't understand each other and can't communicate effectively.

I don't agree with all this blaming of Zelensky. He was invited to the Us and treated badly!

JMO MOO

The press conference was about an economic deal. If you watch the video, notice the shock on Trump and his cabinets faces when he starts talking about security, bringing out photos, talking about how Obama didn't help him, he went all the way back to 1996.
Zelensky engineered/plan to disrupt the press conference. He is 100% at fault. That's like Trump going to visit the King and bringing out photos of the revolutionary war and asking reimbursement for the revolutionary war damages. You don't get invited for one thing and then change the narrative. He blindsided everybody.
Moo