Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Leilei]

Isn't Australia facing an election soon? Canada is. A leader at the end of their term can't put anything like that in stone.

And I think everyone, especially Trump, needs to accept reality, this was never going to be solved in 24 hrs. OR 24 days, or 24 Weeks.

That was just the feverish dream of a newly elected president.
JMO

His dreams are of blood money and a Peace prize.
Not real peace.
Sorry, not sorry and IMO.

 

[keek]

It is very sad, but it is what the USA wants. The country seems to believe that it does not need any allies, and is therefore lashing out at all of former friends of the USA. Canada has no choice but to seek new trade partners in other parts of the world. It will take time, but Canada will manage.

Ukraine is the gatekeeper protecting Europe from Russia. Canada is the gatekeeper protecting the USA from Russia. It seems short-sighted to go against gatekeepers for democracy, but perhaps that's no longer the political ideology of the USA. There is a car salesman (wearing jeans, t-shirt and ball cap) who appears to be running the government, so anything is possible.

Exactly all around. I assumed EVERYONE KNOWS THIS, over this awful time, past month plus, NO, it never enters their mind. Stunned at this horrible realization. It can't be ANY more clearer all along!!

 

[Stella123]

It's not that hard to read - 5 minutes at best.

Exclusive: The full text of the US-Ukraine mineral deal

The Kyiv Independent has obtained from a source in the Ukrainian government, the full text of the mineral deal agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine.

kyivindependent.com

It's just an agreement over mineral rights and funds. Throw in the words "lasting peace" here and there but essentially it's a financial agreement and nothing more. Except there is this bit

"The Government of the United States of America supports Ukraine’s efforts to obtain security guarantees needed to establish lasting peace. Participants will seek to identify any necessary steps to protect mutual investments, as defined in the Fund Agreement."

So the only "support" offered is an acceptance that Ukraine will find someone else to give them security guarantees! And the US won't be involved in that.

So yes this agreement is of benefit to the US but not Ukraine. It was in Zelensky's Fox News interview that he explained what they wanted was US personnel in Ukraine - in these areas of mineral rights and Trump wouldn't agree to that. Zelensky felt that would offer Ukraine security from Russia - the presence of the US in the areas they own. And apparently Trump had said that wasn't necessary - they didn't actually need people there.

So there is no security there. The phrase "lasting peace", the way it's used is basically saying - you give us the mineral rights and have these deal over shared funds, but you end the war (ie capitulate to Putin).

 

[JennieM]

15m ago22.05 GMT

Security guarantees needed so Russia cannot violate peace deal again, Zelenskyy says​

Speaking about the security guarantees for Ukraine, Zelenskyy stressed the importance of them being strong enough to be convincing for ordinary Ukrainians, who have first-hand experience of seeing previous agreements violated by Russia.

Security guarantees are needed for the people … [so] they need to say, we believe in this so life comes back to the country, people are coming back.

If they are not coming back to the country, it means they do not have any confidence in the security guarantees.

He raised concerns that if there are no hard guarantees, Russia would soon rush to restart hostilities, falsely claiming that the Ukrainians violated the deal.

“And who will win it that case? Russians. Not us for sure, not the US for sure, … not the European colleagues, for sure,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/02/ukraine-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy-keir-starmer-donald-trump-us-europe-eu-russia-defence-latest-live-news?filterKeyEvents=false#top-of-blog

 

[JennieM]

35m ago21.47 GMT

Defiant Zelenskyy refuses to apologise to Trump, but wants to move conversation forward​

Dan Sabbagh

View image in fullscreen

The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, during the European leaders’ summit to discuss Ukraine, hosted by Britain’s prime minister Keir Starmer, at Lancaster House in London.Photograph: Toby Melville/AP

A defiant but tactful president Volodymyr Zelenskyy refused to apologise to Donald Trump after Friday’s spat in the White House, and declared that the row in the Oval Office “did not bring anything positive” to peace for Ukraine.

Speaking to journalists only in Ukrainian at the end of a two-day visit to the UK, the president said that when such delicate negotiations are held in public “foes can take advantage of them” though he said he hoped the row would eventually pass.

The Ukrainian leader would not say whether he believed he had been ambushed when he was berated by the US president and the vice-president, JD Vance, and insisted he would talk to Trump again if “invited to solve the real issues”.

However, when he was asked if would go back to the White House to “try again” to obtain clearcut US support in talks to end the three-year war with Russia, Zelenskyy said sharply he hadn’t “come to try” on his most recent visit.

He added: “I travelled in the train for 12 hours, then for 11 hours I flew because the president of the US invited me. The US is one of our main partners, and for me it is a show of respect to be in the White House when the president of the US invites me.”

Zelenskyy was speaking just before flying out of the UK, which came immediately after the disastrous White House meeting on Friday, where he was accused of not being grateful for US military support and told Ukrainecould not win the war.

The Ukrainian leader said that were no communications at his level with the White House since the meeting, but said that a deal for the US to jointly exploit minerals in his country was now ready to sign.

He also said that he believed that an Anglo-French-led peace effort, discussed by European leaders in London on Sunday, would bear fruit “in the coming weeks” and indicated there were supportive declarations from other countries – such as Turkey, the Balts and the Nordics – to get involved.

But while he said he was aware of a proposal from France and Britain to for a one-month truce in the fighting, he would not say if he supported it. Speaking at the end of the interview he gave his only answer in English: “I am aware of everything.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/02/ukraine-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy-keir-starmer-donald-trump-us-europe-eu-russia-defence-latest-live-news?filterKeyEvents=false#top-of-blog

Bolded above as there was some talk earlier in the thread that Z invited himself to the White House.

 

[otto]

Yes, this year is our next election. As far as our stance on Ukraine goes, I don't think it will make a difference.

Our current Govt supports Ukraine, and our Opposition leader has expressed the same thoughts about that disgusting pile on against Zelenskyy at the WH. I think both major parties are aware that our relationship with the US is now very shaky.

Everyone's relationship with the USA is shaky since Trump was elected. Who knew that the people of the USA were so disinterested in global peace and health!

 

[Vern]

Zelinskyy doesn't want a ceasefire and peace??

Ukraine & Russia already agreed to a ceasefire in 2019.

What did Zelinsky get in return? Many, many breaches of the ceasefire by Russia and then Invaded by Russia.

An end to this war means absolutely ZERO without security guarantees for Ukraine. Zelinskyy certainly HAS learned his lesson ---> Russia cannot be trusted to honour any agreements.

Who was the president then? It seems to me that all the same players are at the table, but how soon some of them forget.

If Russia wanted peace, they would not have invaded Ukraine. Instead, they want a piece of Ukraine.

Russia needs to get out of Ukrainian territory now. Perhaps the US should step up and tell Russia to get off Ukrainian land; that would be a great start at true diplomacy and I haven't heard that called for yet.

IMO.

 

[otto]

Do you have a link to the reconstruction agreement please?

BILATERAL AGREEMENT ESTABLISHING TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR A RECONSTRUCTION INVESTMENT FUND

Exclusive: The full text of the US-Ukraine mineral deal

The Kyiv Independent has obtained from a source in the Ukrainian government, the full text of the mineral deal agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine.

kyivindependent.com

 

[keek]

I was able to watch the the MEN AND WOMEN of great integrity and intelligence today on BBC News, speak and stand together. Starmer's speech. I felt so safe and good. Stunned me the difference there and what transpired (daily, all day) with t and his .. people. I am so grateful to them to just exist and be in the power they have to support freedom, human rights and just plain and simple honor because it is simply the right thing to do on every level. Just the standing together as ONE force against evil, period. Let's roll.

 

[MrsWatson]

Yep. I think Zelenskyy learned his lesson. JMO.

What lesson was that? Someone invades your country unprovoked: You should roll over and accept it while giving up your countries natural resources while the invaders commit atrocities and violate signed agreements?

Why can't Putin learn the lesson that it is not okay to invade other countries unprovoked? None of this is Ukraine's fault.

 

[SouthAussie]

Can you provide a source that Macron asked for the deal to be negotiated on live TV please?

I suspect that you will not get a link. I have looked and there does not appear to be any such thing in the media reports.

The closest thing I found was that Trump (on 26th Feb) cancelled the meeting with Zelenskyy. Then Macron intervened and convinced Trump to proceed with the meeting with Zelenskyy.

I hardly believe that Macron said to Trump "please do the meeting with Zelenskyy and have the media there, especially Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend and TASS". imo



According to information from BFMTV, Volodymyr Zelensky's visit to Washington would have been cancelled by the United States if Emmanuel Macron had not intervened with Donald Trump.

Volodymyr Zelensky's visit to Washington on Friday, February 28, was canceled by the Americans before finally being confirmed after a call from Emmanuel Macron, according to a French diplomatic source to BFMTV.

On Wednesday, the Ukrainian president received a message from the US administration telling him not to come to the United States to meet Donald Trump. Volodymyr Zelensky then called Emmanuel Macron, who himself contacted Donald Trump, asking him to receive his counterpart and adding that he would vouch for him.

INFO BFMTV. Trump a voulu annuler la venue de Zelensky à Washington mais Macron l'en a dissuadé

Selon les informations de BFMTV, la venue de Volodymyr Zelensky à Washington aurait été annulée par les États-Unis si Emmanuel Macron n'était pas intervenu auprès de Donald Trump.

www.bfmtv.com

 

[keek]

Zelinskyy doesn't want a ceasefire and peace??

Ukraine & Russia already agreed to a ceasefire in 2019.

What did Zelinsky get in return? Many, many breaches of the ceasefire by Russia and then Invaded by Russia.

An end to this war means absolutely ZERO without security guarantees for Ukraine. Zelinskyy certainly HAS learned his lesson ---> Russia cannot be trusted to honour any agreements.

Who was the president then? It seems to me that all the same players are at the table, but how soon some of them forget.

If Russia wanted peace, they would not have invaded Ukraine. Instead, they want a piece of Ukraine.

Russia needs to get out of Ukrainian territory now. Perhaps the US should step up and tell Russia to get off Ukrainian land; that would be a great start at true diplomacy and I haven't heard that called for yet.

IMO.

Russia wants Europe, all of it, one country at a time. We of sound mind and intelligence, BASIC intelligence are quite clearly aware of this. No peace with p in power or existing.

 

[keek]

What lesson was that? Someone invades your country unprovoked: You should roll over and accept it while giving up your countries natural resources while the invaders commit atrocities and violate signed agreements?

Why can't Putin learn the lesson that it is not okay to invade other countries unprovoked? None of this is Ukraine's fault.

Zero, they were all living in a democracy, quite fine, living free lives in THEIR country.

 

[SouthAussie]

Russia needs to get out of Ukrainian territory now. Perhaps the US should step up and tell Russia to get off Ukrainian land; that would be a great start at true diplomacy and I haven't heard that called for yet.

IMO.

Quite the opposite. I remember reading that Trump said Ukraine might/would have to cede land to Russia. (Will look for the link).

imo

ETA: here's a link

US President Donald Trump suggests Ukraine may have to cede territory in exchange for a ceasefire deal with Russia

 

[JennieM]

First published on Cagle.com, Bulgaria, February 20, 2025 | By Christo Komarnitski​

World’s cartoonists on this week’s events

Drawing the top stories around the globe.

www.politico.eu

 

[otto]

Russia wants Europe, all of it, one country at a time. We of sound mind and intelligence, BASIC intelligence are quite clearly aware of this. No peace with p in power or existing.

Russia wants to restore the USSR, then take Western Europe.
The USA wants Canada, Greenland, then South America (to use as a prison).

Every democratic country in the world needs to unite and bypass all reliance on authoritarian dictatorships.

 

[Vern]

Russia wants Europe, all of it, one country at a time. We of sound mind and intelligence, BASIC intelligence are quite clearly aware of this. No peace with p in power or existing.

It's familiar: And then they came for you. Europe and it's allies have been here before.

Nice to see that Canada, Australia, NZ and Europe along with many, many others are NOT staying silent while a Dictator attempts to run roughshod stealing up the land of other democratic sovereign nations. ...

.

 

[keek]

It's familiar: And then they came for you. Europe and it's allies have been here before.

Nice to see that Canada, Australia, NZ and Europe along with many, many others are NOT staying silent while a Dictator attemps to run roughshod stealing up the land of other democratic sovereign nations. ...

.

Favorite and posted on social media many times over the years that ODE. Europe and it's allies so very awfully have been there before and it seems a short time ago for GB, I never forget that as an American, the war fought on their lands. Don't be so foolishly arrogant America, that it couldn't happen here and we are not just the allies.

 

[MrsWatson]

The easiest way to end the war: Putin concedes and withdraws all his troops and accepts Ukraine's independence.

Simple. Not a mystery. Putin was the aggressor, he can end it. So why won't Putin do that? Why is Zelenskyy being pressured to stop the war but Putin isn't? Putin started it, he can easily end it.

MOO

 

[Stella123]

So it looks like the war will continue for now and Zelensky have European help with funds and missiles. I can't see how there can be safeguards to peace. It would need Putin to agree to stop the war - and even if there was a peacekeeping force in Ukraine (whether British, European or otherwise) it still needs Putin to agree to stop the war and accept Ukraine is an independent country.

Because I remember Putin saying that if any other soldiers from other country's armies set foot in Ukraine, he would consider that war with that country. Now maybe there's a difference between soldiers who are a peace-keeping force and soldiers who are fighting with/for Ukraine.

Nobody can have sensible talks for deals with Putin because he's beyond that IMO. He's not going to back down now. Until he accepts he can't have Ukraine (which I can't see happening), I think this war will continue - and nobody will be able to make a peace agreement with him (even if he stuck to it). He wants too much.

I personally don't think he does want to invade the rest of Europe - he has a strong personal belief that Ukraine has a history of being Russian and should be part of Russia and he was rattled by Ukraine's attempts to join NATO.

JMO MOO