Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12
- Thread starter MadMcGoo
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UK and France to work with Ukraine on peace plan to be presented to US, Starmer says, before major defence summit – live
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join European, Canadian and Turkish leaders for summit on Ukraine
Macron suggests limited one-month truce 'in air, on seas and in attacks on energy infrastructure'
French president Emmanuel Macron said he and Britain’s Keir Starmer suggested a one-month truce “in the air, on the seas, and on energy infrastructure” to get more time to de-escalate the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine.Macron said that a limited truce was needed, as he conceded it would be “very difficult” to police a complete ceasefire given the length of the frontline.
2h ago21.28 GMT
Zelenskyy says minerals deal is ready to be signed as he seeks to move conversation on from White House spat
Asked by reporters about his White House trip on Friday, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy talked about the difficulty of conducting any sensitive negotiations in public.In a clip broadcast by the BBC, he said that it “was not right” to hold such talks completely open, as “foes can take advantage” of any disagreements between allies.
He was also asked if he was ready to “go back and try again” to discuss these issues with Trump, prompting a reaction from Zelenskyy.
“I did not come to try. I travelled in the train for 12 hours, then I flew for 11 hours, because the president of the United States invited me, and that is one of our main partners. For me, it is a gesture of respect to be in the White House, when the president invites me,” he said.
There is none, doesn't matter to him. Other things do, none for USA or anyone in it or we see elsewhere of course.
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UK and France to work with Ukraine on peace plan to be presented to US, Starmer says, before major defence summit – live
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join European, Canadian and Turkish leaders for summit on Ukraine
Ukraine wouldn't agree to give occupied territories away to Russia, Zelenskyy says
Zelenskyy also rejected a suggestion he could sign a peace deal giving away the Russian occupied territories, saying it would be “a forceful separation of our lands” and “a coercion” risking further hostilities in the future.“I think that those countries … supporting us, or perhaps that want to be intermediaries in this war, [that] they understand that if the war is ended in an unfair way, then it will be a matter of time before people will try to get this justice,” he said.
“We don’t want anything that does not belong to us,” he stressed.
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You’ve made my point.
D
Deleted member 39678
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The lesson is to not be rude and demanding with the people who are trying to help you. JMO.
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UK and France to work with Ukraine on peace plan to be presented to US, Starmer says, before major defence summit – live
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join European, Canadian and Turkish leaders for summit on Ukraine
Zelenskyy was also asked about Lindsey Graham’s comments suggesting he should consider resigning the post of the Ukrainian president after his spat with Trump on Friday.
In response, he said he could offer Graham a Ukrainian citizenship, and only then his suggestions on this would “gain weight”.
But until then, the president of Ukraine will continue to be chosen by Ukrainians only, he said.
In another exchange, he added that he would be willing to exchange his presidency for a Nato membership for Ukraine, which he repeated would be the best security guarantee for the country.
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UK and France to work with Ukraine on peace plan to be presented to US, Starmer says, before major defence summit – live
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join European, Canadian and Turkish leaders for summit on Ukraine
Czech Republic looks to increase defence spending to 3% GDP
Separately, Czech prime minister, Petr Fiala, said in a video update after today’s summit that he will work to increase the country’s defence spending to 3% GDP, from 2.1% in the latest Nato figures.He also said that leaders taking part in the London talks agreed they would continue to support Ukraine “because the best security guarantee for the future is a strong Ukraine and a strong Ukrainian army”.
9m ago18.00 EST
Writing on the Telegram messaging app, Konstantin Kosachev, head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of Russia’s upper house of parliament, derided the outcome of the London meeting as “a desperate attempt to pass off as success the failure of a 10-year policy of inciting Ukraine towards Russia by the same Great Britain and, until recently, the United States”.
“Europe has no plan,” Kosachev wrote, “And if Ukraine should count on something, it can only be on progress (if there is any to come) in Russian-American relations.”
He said Zelenskyy and Starmer “cannot fail to understand this”.
D
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Macron Interceded After Trump Wanted to Cancel Zelensky’s Meeting
A French media outlet has reported that the US President wanted to cancel his Ukrainian counterpart’s visit until President Emmanuel Macron intervened.
www.kyivpost.com
Z can not win. Those who call for continued war should 1. pay for it, and 2. sign up BECAUSE, Z needs bodies for the slaughter pen.
Trump isn't sending U.S. troops, nor is the U.S. taxpayer going to fund the war any longer.
The Europeans can not go it alone, they would immerse themselves in a quagmire, the butchering and slaughter would continue, at an astronomical financial cost, not to mention the body bags returning to London, Paris, etc....European citizens aren't going to put up with that.
Russia does not, and will not, accept U.S. nukes on it's border, as U.S. would not accept Russian nukes in Canada, or Mexico, or....Cuba.
Ukraine will not be a NATO country, as that would instigate, upon attack, a world war. Who's going to sign up for that? Ukraine must remain neutral.
To sign an agreement with the U.S. would have been a fantastic move for Z. It would have put the Americans squarely in Ukraine.
My guess, Z, after a serious lashing behind the scenes, either steps down, or comes groveling back to Trump, as there is no other way.
My opinion.
Trump isn't sending U.S. troops, nor is the U.S. taxpayer going to fund the war any longer.
The Europeans can not go it alone, they would immerse themselves in a quagmire, the butchering and slaughter would continue, at an astronomical financial cost, not to mention the body bags returning to London, Paris, etc....European citizens aren't going to put up with that.
Russia does not, and will not, accept U.S. nukes on it's border, as U.S. would not accept Russian nukes in Canada, or Mexico, or....Cuba.
Ukraine will not be a NATO country, as that would instigate, upon attack, a world war. Who's going to sign up for that? Ukraine must remain neutral.
To sign an agreement with the U.S. would have been a fantastic move for Z. It would have put the Americans squarely in Ukraine.
My guess, Z, after a serious lashing behind the scenes, either steps down, or comes groveling back to Trump, as there is no other way.
My opinion.
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Sorry, I have to re-answer this question as I didn't post links.
Yes, we are having our federal election this year.
Australians will head to the polls for the next federal election sometime in the next three months – although when exactly it will be held isn't set in stone. Link
I doubt it will change our stance on Ukraine, as both our current govt and the opposition have expressed support for Ukraine.
Albanese: "I am responsible for Australia's foreign policy, and Australia's foreign policy is determined by Australia," he said.
"And we stand unequivocally with Ukraine in their struggle because we regard that as a struggle for the upholding of international law." Link
Dutton: Speaking on the Today show on Friday morning, the Liberal leader hit back at Mr Trump’s provocative comments towards Ukraine’s leader Volodymyr Zelensky and his decision to lay the blame for the war at Ukraine’s feet, saying we “can’t rewrite history" ......The Opposition leader said Australia will continue to stand up for Ukraine – which Australia has provided $1.5bn worth of aid to fight back against Russia’s invading forces. Link
imo
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Moo...Europe..Canada.. Australia..New Zealand..any of those or all combined..need to get that mineral deal with Ukraine. USA is going to become an island. USA is pretty safe because of water.
Things have changed...new world order....moo
Things have changed...new world order....moo
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They weren't trying to help him. They were trying to help themselves. And they were being rude.
D
Deleted member 39678
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They most certainly were trying to help Ukraine and it's people by ending the war as soon as possible. Maybe that isn't what Zelenskyy wants. JMO.
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They were trying to help themselves to Ukraine’s rare earth minerals. These are not altruists.
D
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Nope. Your totally wrong. JMO.
"France and Britain are proposing a one-month ceasefire in Ukraine ‘in the air, on the seas and on energy infrastructure", French President Emmanuel Macron has told French daily, Le Figaro.
The advantage of such a truce is that "we know how to measure it", even though the frontline is immense, "the equivalent of the Paris-Budapest line", said Macron."
"Zelenskiy said he remained ready to sign the minerals deal with the US, and that he believed the US would be ready as well."
www.france24.com
"France and Britain have proposed a one-month truce in Ukraine “in the air, at sea”, Emmanuel Macron has said following talks in London on Sunday.
European soldiers would only be deployed on the ground in the second phase of a potential peace deal, the French president told Le Figaro.
He also suggested that European countries should raise their defence spending to between 3 and 3.5 per cent of GDP to respond to Donald Trump’s demands.
Mr Macron told the newspaper: “There will be no European troops on Ukrainian soil in the coming weeks.
“The question is how we use this time to try to obtain an accessible truce, with negotiations that will take several weeks and then, once peace is signed, a deployment.”
He added: “We want peace. We don’t want it at any price, without guarantees.”
The French president also said he was sceptical about a ceasefire deal signed between the US and Russia, adding that it would leave Ukraine vulnerable."
www.telegraph.co.uk
Described as a one month ceasefire in some places and a one month "truce" in other places. I assume that this is a compromise. Zelensky will sign the minerals deal and accept US doesn't give the security safeguards, but is accepting security safeguards from Europe instead.
So presumably the minerals deal does benefit Ukraine as well as the US.
No info as to how this one month truce would be achieved with Putin, but presumably they are relying on Trump's talks with Putin to achieve that.
Trump needs to be onboard in helping secure the ceasefire and work with Europe. IMO
So it sounds like
They need weeks of negotiations to achieve
a) The one month ceasefire
b) Agreement from Putin that EU troops will be deployed in Ukraine after that (peacekeeping force?)
This might be quite a clever move as Putin wouldn't be seen to be backing down on his own (ie save face for Putin) and Zelensky would be agreeing to a ceasefire as well but not surrendering.
The EU (apparently) would need to "police" a large boundary over land, air and sea, to ensure neither side broke the truce/ceasefire.
JMO MOO
The advantage of such a truce is that "we know how to measure it", even though the frontline is immense, "the equivalent of the Paris-Budapest line", said Macron."
"Zelenskiy said he remained ready to sign the minerals deal with the US, and that he believed the US would be ready as well."
France, UK working on one-month Ukraine truce, says Macron
French President Emmanuel Macron on Sunday said the UK and France were working on a one-month truce in Ukraine “in the air, at sea and on energy infrastructure,” in an interview with a French daily.…
www.france24.com
"France and Britain have proposed a one-month truce in Ukraine “in the air, at sea”, Emmanuel Macron has said following talks in London on Sunday.
European soldiers would only be deployed on the ground in the second phase of a potential peace deal, the French president told Le Figaro.
He also suggested that European countries should raise their defence spending to between 3 and 3.5 per cent of GDP to respond to Donald Trump’s demands.
Mr Macron told the newspaper: “There will be no European troops on Ukrainian soil in the coming weeks.
“The question is how we use this time to try to obtain an accessible truce, with negotiations that will take several weeks and then, once peace is signed, a deployment.”
He added: “We want peace. We don’t want it at any price, without guarantees.”
The French president also said he was sceptical about a ceasefire deal signed between the US and Russia, adding that it would leave Ukraine vulnerable."
France and Britain to propose one-month truce in Ukraine, Macron says
France and Britain are to propose a one-month truce in Ukraine “in the air, at sea”, Emmanuel Macron has said following talks in London on Sunday.
www.telegraph.co.uk
Described as a one month ceasefire in some places and a one month "truce" in other places. I assume that this is a compromise. Zelensky will sign the minerals deal and accept US doesn't give the security safeguards, but is accepting security safeguards from Europe instead.
So presumably the minerals deal does benefit Ukraine as well as the US.
No info as to how this one month truce would be achieved with Putin, but presumably they are relying on Trump's talks with Putin to achieve that.
Trump needs to be onboard in helping secure the ceasefire and work with Europe. IMO
So it sounds like
They need weeks of negotiations to achieve
a) The one month ceasefire
b) Agreement from Putin that EU troops will be deployed in Ukraine after that (peacekeeping force?)
This might be quite a clever move as Putin wouldn't be seen to be backing down on his own (ie save face for Putin) and Zelensky would be agreeing to a ceasefire as well but not surrendering.
The EU (apparently) would need to "police" a large boundary over land, air and sea, to ensure neither side broke the truce/ceasefire.
JMO MOO
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I'm not wrong. But Ranch we obviously won't agree so let's just leave it there.
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I call it extortion!!!!
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