Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

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  • #641
He is not even remotely neutral which as a supposed ally is worrying. Who is going to be the next leader to be attacked?

Not what most of the world saw tbh. Not just what why would he sign the deal with no security in place?
Because it was a separate issue.

President Trump even brought up the fact that the UK and France had said they would send forces to guarantee security and the fact that the US would have interest in Ukraine with the mineral deal would also be part of security for Ukraine. Trump also didn't rule out more US help with security

For some reason Zelenskyy ignored those facts. This shows me he doesn't know what he's doing. JMO.
 
  • #642
Leftist media lies, imo. Liberal media outlet headlines that simply are not true (imo). The US provided 70 billion in direct military aid to Ukraine (per state dept website as of 1/20/25). 70 Billion. Plus another 20 billion recently agreed to as loan. Not a tiny 2.8 billion loan.. Not a
even tinier 13 million dollars..

It is an outrageous lie to say the US hasn’t and doesn’t support Ukraine. Trump and the US Government are not “abandoning” anybody. That is nothing but left-wing -biased EU and US media lies (does anybody even pretend anymore that MSM is unbiased?) and bloviating virtue signaling by EU politicians who will run for the hills ar the first sign of major conflict.

The obvious facts are:

- Russia already has Crimea and has had it for years. The time for the US, the EU and NATO to have done anything about this militarily was back then - at that time. Instead, they chose meaningless sanctions. The EU, NATO, and the US chose not to intervene.

- Russia already has most of the Donbas border region that it claims belongs to Russia. This regional dispute is not new. It has been going on since the split up of the Soviet Union. It will keep going on, at some level, no matter what happens in the next 6 months.

- Russia is not giving Crimea or the regions they now control in Donbas back - not after the loss of 1 million soldiers. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

- if you think some entity has both the will and the capability (politically, financially, and militarily) to “take back” Crimea and the border regions and gift them back to Ukraine, just who do you propose this to be?

Remember, this conflict has been going on forever, just like many other conflicts around the world have been going on forever: North and South Korea, Vietnam, The Troubles, Israel Palestine, Turkey - Kurds, Tibet, the Hutu’s and the Tutsi’s, Taiwan and China, India and China, and hundreds more civil wars.

- any attempt by the US - given the current political climate, given the massive recent diplomatic failures and violations of diplomacy perpetrated by Ukraine, France, UK, US, Germany and others, and the escalation of things in the globalist media, - the egos now stirred up to the stratosphere - make ANY compromise almost impossible. Well done Vlad

Loudmouth globalist govt and media voices engaging in childish name-calling and flat out lies are extinguishing any hope of compromise. They are advocating for actions that may well result in World War III. Global conflict. Possible total destruction and occupation of Europe. Is that what you want? Do you have a crystal ball? Is it worth it?

- what Zelinskyy is asking for is not even possible. There will NEVER be a “secured peace” in that region. Never has been, never will be. Imo one cannot be achieved, I don’t care who you put on the team (and, you’re not going to get the US to risk American lives (or EU nations to risk their young people’s lives) to constantly fight DMZ type war for the next 30 years in the Donbas region.

The US has been involved in conflicts like that before (while also trying to save the world from communism or other great evils): Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan. Conflicts like that NEVER end. The US population right now (and for the foreseeable future from my perspective as a US citizen) has ZERO appetite for war. ZERO

Globalists and socialists who think they can goad the US into starting WW III or into entering the US into another Vietnam by throwing hussy fits, calling people names, hurling insults, and often just flat out making up lies, need to think again. It ain’t happening.

Prior to Zelenski’s attempt to humiliate the US into doing his will on national TV, the US had already agreed generously to help rebuild Uktaine (to the tune of many billions in exchange for minerals. Read the agreement. This was not exploration no matter what the leftist media would like you to believe.

Zelensky, after agreeing to the deal and to seeking peace, basically came
into the US White House, and in front of the world, gave the US administration the finger. I would not be surprised at this point if Zelensky is ever let back in the country.

Other than a few day dreaming elite globalists, Zelensky seems to be the only person in the world who thinks he can reclaim Crimea and Donbas and have everlasting peace. He is an egomaniacal fool, continuing to cause unnecessary death for his countrymen. I hope he comes to his senses soon.

Given his attitude and recent actions, I wish I had more hope, but I really don’t. I do however wish Ukraine and the EU good luck in their efforts to defeat Russia.

All jmo
"- any attempt by the US - given the current political climate, given the massive recent diplomatic failures and violations of diplomacy perpetrated by Ukraine, France, UK, US, Germany and others, and the escalation of things in the globalist media, - the egos now stirred up to the stratosphere - make ANY compromise almost impossible. Well done Vlad " What are you even talking about?
 
  • #643
  • #644
Incidentally why does Trump not think Zelensky should be involved in the peace talks? It is his country after all?
Trump thinks that when the actual peace talks begin that both sides need to be present. This was not a peace talk or deal, this was supposed to be a partnership between Ukraine and USA for minerals.

President Trump has said from the beginning; he wanted to talk with Russia to even see if they would be open to peace talks. When he received confirmation that they would discuss it, he then turned to Zelensky. He is being a negotiator. Without him starting any conversation, the war would continue without any hope of ending. The Europeans and the UK had never tried past an initial discussion with Russia at the beginning. JMO MOO
 
  • #645
"Zelenskyy then went on a rant, in the Oval Office, lecturing President Trump about how the Obama,Trump,and Biden admins didn't stop Russia from breaking deals. Talking over his host the whole time."

No.... He correctly advised Trump that despite deals with Obama,Trump,and Biden admins, PUTIN broke the deal about 25 times.
Yep. It was the perfect time and place to verbally thrash the US. He made sure the media got it all.

And he still wants US support.LOL. Zelenskyy should have just stayed home and launch his complaints from there. It would have saved time and money. JMO.
 
  • #646
Because it was a separate issue.

President Trump even brought up the fact that the UK and France had said they would send forces to guarantee security and the fact that the US would have interest in Ukraine with the mineral deal would also be part of security for Ukraine. Trump also didn't rule out more US help with security

For some reason Zelenskyy ignored those facts. This shows me he doesn't know what he's doing. JMO.
They said that after he had already said we would have to send people because we are in Europe and America isnt. Russia has made it plain they do not want our soldiers on Ukraine soil so no wonder he wanted more security
 
  • #647
Yep. It was the perfect time and place to verbally thrash the US. He made sure the media got it all.

And he still wants US support.LOL. Zelenskyy should have just stayed home and launch his complaints from there. It would have saved time and money. JMO.
Tbh the media got the abuse that was laid out to Zelensky. It was front pages around the world how badly he was treated. Well except Russia.
 
  • #648
JUL 31, 2023
Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire during the reign of Catherine The Great in 1783 and remained part of Russia until 1954, when it was transferred to Ukraine under the then Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev.

Internationally recognised as part of Ukraine, it has been under Russian occupation since 2014 after Ukraine's then pro-Moscow president Viktor Yanukovych was driven from power by violent protests in Kyiv.

Kremlin-backed forces invaded the Crimean peninsula, and the territory, which has a Russian-speaking majority, voted to join Russia in a referendum that Ukraine and the West deem illegal.

1740968106703.png
 
  • #649
They said that after he had already said we would have to send people because we are in Europe and America isnt. Russia has made it plain they do not want our soldiers on Ukraine soil so no wonder he wanted more security
So you don't think the UK and France will send troops to Ukraine?
 
  • #650
Tbh the media got the abuse that was laid out to Zelensky. It was front pages around the world how badly he was treated. Well except Russia.
He wasn't treated badly. Zelenskyy insulted the US. JMO.
 
  • #651
  • #652
  • #653
So you don't think the UK and France will send troops to Ukraine?
Yep ofc we will. Well providing Putin does not block it. Must not offend him eh
 
  • #654
Have you watched the entire 43 minute video? Zelensky is cool and calm throughout this. Though he may have an incomplete command of English, his points were very well expressed. Trump on the other hand monopolized the entire discussion with egocentric chest pounding and slams on previous presidents Obama and Biden. It was Trump that exploded at the end, with lots of help from JD Vance. I think it was Trump who realized he did not have the cards to play. Those cards were to provide security for a lasting peace. Watch the video and listen.

Oh, I actually watched the whole video, thank you. I have watched Zelenskyy since "Quarter 95", his show, and then as a President. And I watch Ukrainian analytics frequently.

It is not about command of English. It is about how you, a politician, whose country's future depends on a huge partner like US, deal with the change of power. When the new president may still have some own memories about prior communications. Trump has a long personal memory. But as a businessman, he is quid pro quo. So I was not surprised when "Hunter's laptop" popped up. I knew that it would be somehow mentioned, probably as the prelude to signing the agreement. The message was obvious, you sign it as is or not. These are our current conditions.

Now, I am not sure that Trump has totally made up his mind about who's an ally or a foe. I think it is very complex. But what was on the table for Ukraine was obvious.

The interpreter gives you the time to think over your answer in a complex situation.

We are not talking about who was polite or not. Politics makes strange bedfellows, we all know.

Politically, it was a loss for Zelenskyy. And he did grow up into a politician over these years.
 
  • #655
  • #656
  • #657
NEW: Recent Russian official statements in response to the proposed US-Ukraine mineral deal indicate that the Kremlin is trying to sabotage the deal through narratives targeting Ukrainian and American audiences. The Kremlin is claiming that this mineral deal does not benefit Ukraine while also claiming that Russia can make a better offer to the United States, indicating that Moscow sees the deal as harmful to its objectives.

Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov responded on February 23 to a question about the US-Ukraine mineral deal and whether US pressure would push Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to "finally sell out all of Ukraine," including Russia's illegally annexed territories in Ukraine.

Peskov claimed that the people in occupied Ukraine decided "long ago" that they wanted to join Russia so "no one will ever sell off these territories" — implying that Zelensky may "sell out" other areas of Ukraine.

Russian state television evening news program Vesti claimed on February 24 that the United States is "blackmailing" Ukraine with the mineral deal.

A Kremlin-affiliated Russian milblogger claimed on February 22 that "there is nothing good for Kyiv" in a new version of the US-Ukraine mineral deal. The milblogger claimed that the mineral deal is "humiliating" for Ukraine and that Zelensky would be "selling the benefits of his country for nothing" should he sign the deal.
 
  • #658
I wish Trump would allow the press to broadcast his calls with Putin.
Yes @Cedars …. absolutely agree with that. And for historical reference and comparison:

PBS online October 8, 2024 article by Michael L. Price and Meg Kinnard, Associated Press, entitled ‘Trump had as many as 7 private calls with Putin since leaving office, Bob Woodward writes in new book’:


CNN online July 18, 2018 article by Chris Cillizza entitled ‘Trump and Putin met one-on-one in a room for 2 hours. Here’s why that’s a problem.’:


NB: IIUC Trump was not in office at the time of information given in the cited PBS article and Bob Woodward’s book entitled “War”. Also interesting that Mr. Trump was also reported to have secretly sent Covid-19 test machines to Mr. Putin during the pandemic outbreak.

MOO
 
  • #659
NEW: Recent Russian official statements in response to the proposed US-Ukraine mineral deal indicate that the Kremlin is trying to sabotage the deal through narratives targeting Ukrainian and American audiences. The Kremlin is claiming that this mineral deal does not benefit Ukraine while also claiming that Russia can make a better offer to the United States, indicating that Moscow sees the deal as harmful to its objectives.

Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov responded on February 23 to a question about the US-Ukraine mineral deal and whether US pressure would push Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to "finally sell out all of Ukraine," including Russia's illegally annexed territories in Ukraine.

Peskov claimed that the people in occupied Ukraine decided "long ago" that they wanted to join Russia so "no one will ever sell off these territories" — implying that Zelensky may "sell out" other areas of Ukraine.

Russian state television evening news program Vesti claimed on February 24 that the United States is "blackmailing" Ukraine with the mineral deal.

A Kremlin-affiliated Russian milblogger claimed on February 22 that "there is nothing good for Kyiv" in a new version of the US-Ukraine mineral deal. The milblogger claimed that the mineral deal is "humiliating" for Ukraine and that Zelensky would be "selling the benefits of his country for nothing" should he sign the deal.
Tbh I also think they are blackmailing Ukraine.
 
  • #660
Oh, I actually watched the whole video, thank you. I have watched Zelenskyy since "Quarter 95", his show, and then as a President. And I watch Ukrainian analytics frequently.

It is not about command of English. It is about how you, a politician, whose country's future depends on a huge partner like US, deal with the change of power. When the new president may still have some own memories about prior communications. Trump has a long personal memory. But as a businessman, he is quid pro quo. So I was not surprised when "Hunter's laptop" popped up. I knew that it would be somehow mentioned, probably as the prelude to signing the agreement. The message was obvious, you sign it as is or not. These are our current conditions.

Now, I am not sure that Trump has totally made up his mind about who's an ally or a foe. I think it is very complex. But what was on the table for Ukraine was obvious.

The interpreter gives you the time to think over your answer in a complex situation.

We are not talking about who was polite or not. Politics makes strange bedfellows, we all know.

Politically, it was a loss for Zelenskyy. And he did grow up into a politician over these years.
Obviously Zelenskyy is politically naive and it's not a surprise to me he is afraid of diplomacy because he doesn't understand how it works.

I think that Ukraine would be better served by someone with the talents needed to get things done. JMO.
 
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