Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

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  • #741
Zelenskyy is apparently 'disrespectful ' because he didn't wear a suit. Winston Churchill wore a siren suit when meeting Eisenhower during WW2, and Musk doesn't wear a suit in the white house. Are both of them disrespectful too?
Jmoo, moo
 
  • #742
From watching the entire video of the Oval Office PC it's clear to me that President Trump showed restraint when Zelenskyy first rudely interrupted him.

After Zelenskyy launched his rant about how the US let Ukraine down and how the US will feel I saw a President who stood up for all Americans. It made me very proud that he is my President after watching how he handled the rude and obnoxious behavior of Zelenskyy. JMO.

Bearing interruptions is a basic skill for an effective negotiator.

Trump folded and lost. Vance must have gotten him too excited leading up.

This is war with innocents bombed.

If Trump had ever served or even respected the military maybe he could bear up a little better in the real world of a president discussing war aid.


No wonder Musk is being granted presidental and beyond powers.

Trump and Vance are incapable of running a conversation much less a country.

All imo
 
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  • #743
From watching the entire video of the Oval Office PC it's clear to me that President Trump showed restraint when Zelenskyy first rudely interrupted him.

After Zelenskyy launched his rant about how the US let Ukraine down and how the US will feel I saw a President who stood up for all Americans. It made me very proud that he is my President after watching how he handled the rude and obnoxious behavior of Zelenskyy. JMO.
Who's this all Americans you're talking about?

And honestly all the rudeness came from Trump and Vance. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. They looked and acted like hyenas coming after their prey. Zelenskyy now has Europe and the whole world supporting him more than ever.
 
  • #744
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Honestly I feel like I'm living in Orwell's 1984. Just because something is said doesn't make it truth. DT has been fact checked over and over, the man talks absolute bull. I'm not sure if he is a dictator or just simply delusional. Has anyone thought about a cognitive assessment for Mr President??

It is a bigger problem in that the cult of Trump is like some sort of brain disease. A new religious fever that has taken over minds in this country. It is if their savior is in the flesh. Better than a god. You cannot educate these followers because they are so convinced that he is correct, even though he spews hatred for the very people and values this country was built on. He said that he would be a dictator on day 1. Big surprise, he will still be a dictator on day 10,000. He is not a benevolent dictator. He is a snake. He is evil.

The cult was during the prior term. Now we have the new prophet as the old ones have faded.

Remember what Trump said at the GOP convention? "I had God on my side". To trace the evolution: to win in 2016, GOP had to borrow a former Democrat and agnostic from NYC. To align him with "spirituality", they assigned him a Bible guide. And here is what happened: first, unexpected victory in 2016. Then, much more: people marching on DC, for him. That was the cult phase. But I believe that for Trump himself, some kind of epiphany had happened with that attack in PA. Remember? "By the Grace of Almilghty God". Trump won legally, so it is not dictatorship. Is felling messianic delusional? Depends on whether people follow you, or not. If they do, you are the prophet, so here is the answer. The movement will get a name, i call it technocratic monotheism. What has happened and started very random, is not defined by the election.
 
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  • #745
<modsnip: rude/personalizing/name calling> Trump and Vance have shown their intentions and Russian alliance. They have embarrassed their country, their government, and the whole world has seen them for what they are. Trump and Vance do not stand for peace or democracy. They are greedy for power and money. World leaders now know not to trust them.
 
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  • #746
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The cult was during the prior term. Now we have the new prophet as the old ones have faded.

Remember what Trump said at the GOP convention? "I had God on my side". To trace the evolution: to win in 2016, GOP had to borrow a former Democrat and agnostic from NYC. To align him with "spirituality", they assigned him a Bible guide. And here is what happened: first, unexpected victory in 2016. Then, much more: people marching on DC, for him. That was the cult phase. But I believe that for Trump himself, some kind of epiphany had happened with that attack in PA. Remember? "By the Grace of Almilghty God". Trump won legally, so it is not dictatorship. Is felling messianic delusional? Depends on whether people follow you, or not. If they do, you are the prophet, so here is the answer. The movement will get a name, i call it technocratic monotheism. What has happened and started very random, is not defined by the election.
What do you think happened in 2020? Did the Bible guide decide to leave Trump hanging? Because he lost that election.
 
  • #747
6m ago08.27 GMT
A minister in the UK government has said that military deployments in Ukraine by European forces would be possible without US backing if required to enforce a peace deal, but that “a durable, lasting peace” would rely on US involvement.

Speaking on Times Radio, PA Media quotes armed forces minister Luke Pollard saying:

What we can see is the direction of travel – Europe doing more, UK leadership in bringing our allies together, along with the French. To do that, we want to make sure that we are able to present a plan for a lasting and durable peace that does include the US involvement, because if the US isn’t involved, we will struggle to get that durable peace.

Military deployments are possible. But the point is, we want a durable and lasting peace. And this is where it’s really important to understand the distinction between a short pause, which might be able to be achieved, but that doesn’t sustain a durable peace, because there’s a genuine worry by President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians that a short pause will simply allow the Russian forces to reconstitute, to rearm, to regroup and then to attack again.

Now that’s something that clearly would not be in anyone’s interest, not our security interests, certainly not the Ukrainians, who would suffer consequences for that, but we’ve been absolutely clear, and as has president Trump, that we need a durable, lasting peace. Well, our assessment of that is the only way that can be achieved is with US involvement.
Pollard said that dialogue continued with the Trump administration, telling listeners “Discussions with Donald Trump are continuing. The prime minister [Keir Starmer] has spoken to him twice since Friday and we’ll continue to have those discussions in the days ahead. Indeed, you should expect senior military officers, officials and ministers to be in the US.”

 
  • #748
He is a very classy guy. History will sort out the heroes from the villains. Trump and Putin will not be heroes.
Isn't he just! Trump, his cohort and supporters have a LOT to learn. Jmo.
 
  • #749
54m ago07.41 GMT

If the White House has sought to villainise Zelenskyy’s behaviour in the Oval Office meeting and continue to present him as an unpopular leader whose people want him out of office, reporting from Ukraine tells a very different story. In this piece from the city of Odesa, Luke Harding hears from ordinary Ukrainians dismayed by the White House’s warmth towards the Kremlin, and who insist their president remains the right man for the job.

“This is our affair. Zelenskyy is our president. He got 73% of the vote. We should decide,” says Olena Palash, who works at a children’s clinic destroyed by Russian attacks. She also says: “Everything is back to front. After three years of war, I’m astounded. Trump doesn’t understand who the aggressor is.”

Trump’s treatment of Ukraine in recent days goes beyond even what Russia might have expected, and the Kremlin appears eager to make the most of its diplomatic advantage. Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, praised Trump for “behaving correctly” in an interview reported by state news agency Tass on Sunday. “Donald Trump is a pragmatist,” he said. “His slogan is common sense. It means, as everyone can see, a shift to a different way of doing things.”

Perhaps most tellingly, he sought to draw a clear line between Europe and the US under Trump’s leadership. The Trump team “say directly that they want to end all wars, they want peace”, Lavrov said. “And who demands a ‘continuation of the banquet’ in the form of a war? Europe.”

 
  • #750
1h ago07.34 GMT

French foreign minister: month's truce would show if Putin was acting in good faith​

Jean-Noël Barrot has suggested that a month’s truce in Ukraine would show if Russian president Vladimir Putin was acting in good faith.

Speaking on RTL Radio, France’s foreign minister picked up an earlier suggestion by French president Emmanuel Macron that there could be a month’s truce covering air, sea and attacks on critical infrastructure.

Reuters reports Barrot said a pause would show if Putin was acting in good faith and if he would be willing to start negotiations in earnest on a longer-term peace deal.

Barrot added that he thought that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and US President Donald Trump could be willing to re-engage in direct talks after last week’s debacle in the Oval Office.

 
  • #751
The lesson is to not be rude and demanding with the people who are trying to help you. JMO.
The lesson is to not invade other countries, killing thousands of people. But yeah, you concentrate on this "rudeness". Jmo.
 
  • #752
Sounds like Ukraine is hitting Russian oil refineries.


On the night of March 3, Russians reported hearing explosion sounds in Ufa. It was later revealed that unidentified drones attacked a local oil refinery, causing a fire, according to Russian Telegram channels.

On the night of February 26, Ukrainian forces launched drone strikes on the Tuapse Oil Refinery in the Krasnodar region.


 
  • #753
What do you think happened in 2020? Did the Bible guide decide to leave Trump hanging? Because he lost that election.
First, the Bible guide - JMO - must have felt like a horrible nuisance. Trump was not "converted" in such a peculiar way then. He was still a practical New Yorker. Moreover, he did have a real believer VP, Pence. I sometimes think that GOP hoped Trump to be the vehicle for Pence. Yet where is Pence now, and where is Trump?

JMO, that election was lost to COVID. Usually elections are lost due to poor economy, or things like pandemics. But what happened now is that Trump likely feels specially chosen. MAGA was a cult. People sitting with napkins on their ears during the Republican convention, to me, marked the beginning of a new religion.
 
  • #754
I suppose the other issue is Trump and Vance made it plain they did not want Zelensky as President to the point they lied about him to try and turn people against him. Did he create that incident Friday so he can now say well I will help Ukraine but can not work with him?
They would replace him a Russian-leaning puppet.
 
  • #755
8m ago08.51 GMT

Sweden investigates attempted sabotage on Gotland island​

Swedish police are investigating a case of attempted sabotage on the island of Gotland over the weekend, which could have affected the island’s water supply, the Swedish daily Aftonbladet reported this morning.

The paper quoted a spokesperson for the Swedish security services confirming an incident, but not offering more details at this stage.

The strategically located island on the Baltic sea has been on high alert due to risk of Russian interference, with Sweden strengthening its presence there. Last week authorities were investigated a suspected cable damage just off the island.

 
  • #756
This must have felt better for Zelenskyy. many of his European allies and him on Sunday.

Why isn't Zelenskyy wearing a suit? (joke)

a.jpg




ETA The photo link seems to have changed, so here is a different one .... Sir Keir Starmer warns leaders West is at 'a crossroads in history'

imo
 
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  • #757
  • #758
The 4 steps agreed at Sunday's summit ....


The prime minister says leaders at the summit agreed four important steps:
  • To keep military aid flowing into Ukraine while the war is ongoing, and increase economic pressure on Russia
  • Any lasting peace must ensure Ukraine's sovereignty and security, and Ukraine must be at the table for any peace talks
  • In the event of a peace deal, European leaders will aim to deter any future invasion by Russia into Ukraine
  • There would be a "coalition of the willing" to defend Ukraine and guarantee peace in the country

Starmer unveils four steps to help Ukraine
 
  • #759
The 4 steps agreed at Sunday's summit ....


The prime minister says leaders at the summit agreed four important steps:
  • To keep military aid flowing into Ukraine while the war is ongoing, and increase economic pressure on Russia
  • Any lasting peace must ensure Ukraine's sovereignty and security, and Ukraine must be at the table for any peace talks
  • In the event of a peace deal, European leaders will aim to deter any future invasion by Russia into Ukraine
  • There would be a "coalition of the willing" to defend Ukraine and guarantee peace in the country

Starmer unveils four steps to help Ukraine
Coalition of the willing for a photo opportunity.imo.

Any how.

Europe's coalition of the willing on Ukraine splits on day one: UK wavers on French plan for ceasefire as humiliated Zelensky says he WILL sign mineral deal after Trump bust-up​



 
  • #760
IMG_5471.jpeg

winston churchill visiting FDR in the white house, in his combat gear :)
 
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