Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[SouthAussie]

This photo is such a powerful statement. Zelensky looks SMART. Those crying about him not wearing a suit should go and touch grass. jmo.

The people in the photo represent about 639,048,657 people, by my rough reckoning of looking up the population of their countries in 2025 (via Google).

And there are countries who support Ukraine who are not there, so I didn't include them in my rough tally.


I used this photo caption to see who everybody was.

Sir Keir Starmer warns leaders West is at 'a crossroads in history'

Prime Minister says ‘Europe must do the heavy lifting’ as £1.6bn deal is unveiled for Ukraine to buy new missiles

www.scotsman.com

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

Starmer 'not on board' with Macron plan for month ceasefire in Ukraine

Emmanuel Macron floated the idea following a weekend of frantic diplomacy that culminated in the gathering in London yesterday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yes, they are going to have to think carefully about the proposal of a one month ceasefire.

On the one hand it would show both parties they can do this.
On the other hand it would give Russia a chance to re-group.

A total ceasefire agreement might be better. If they can get Putin to do that, and then get him to negotiate peace with the correct parties.

imo

 

[Lilibet]

Yes, they are going to have to think carefully about the proposal of a one month ceasefire.

On the one hand it would show both parties they can do this.
On the other hand it would give Russia a chance to re-group.

A total ceasefire agreement might be better. If they can get Putin to do that, and then get him to negotiate peace with the correct parties.

imo

I agree with you about a total ceasefire being better than a one month ceasefire. On the other hand, there may be advantages to the one month ceasefire that we’re not aware of. But I worry about Russia regrouping, as you do. If they are in favor of the one month ceasefire I’d be a bit suspicious.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Families in frontline villages of Kherson region received food kits from Hope for Ukraine.

Hope for Ukraine (fully funded by private donations)

 

[UK Girl]

President Trump can sit back and let Europe and UK take over. It would be a relief to us (the USA) to have someone else be responsible. As long as we're in Nato, we will unfortunately be compelled to contribute our share to fund Nato, but until Europe, Ukraine and UK draw Nato into a war, we are still relieved of suppling cash and military goods. Time magazine reported that we supplied cold hard cash to Ukraine so they could pay their soldiers and run their state. USAID had reported the cash is being funneled through the World Bank. They admit they have zero oversight on how the money is spent. JMO MOO

That is Ironic tbh. How many times others been drawn into a war to help the US?

 

[UK Girl]

From watching the entire video of the Oval Office PC it's clear to me that President Trump showed restraint when Zelenskyy first rudely interrupted him.

After Zelenskyy launched his rant about how the US let Ukraine down and how the US will feel I saw a President who stood up for all Americans. It made me very proud that he is my President after watching how he handled the rude and obnoxious behavior of Zelenskyy. JMO.

You have taken an opinion from watching different it to most of the world tbh

 

[UK Girl]

"Politically, it was a loss for Zelenskyy."

Nope:
Based upon the opinions expressed here in US and in Europe Zelenskyy has come out on top. He has gotten strong commitments from EU nations and also he is free of constraints placed on him by trump and prior administrations. I see him making a huge surge in ousting Putin from his borders and perhaps striking bigger targets inside Russia.

People are calling him a hero etc across Europe and that how dare they treat him like this. He really is more popular than he ever was. They were cheering him in London at the weekend. The fact Charles saw him for an hour at such late notice says it all

 

[UK Girl]

Zelensky did meet with a bipartisan group of senators before the Friday meeting with Trump.

Senators on both sides of the aisle tried to provide Zelenskyy with "friendly coaching," according to two people who were in the room during the bipartisan meeting with the Ukrainian leader.

While Zelenskyy did express gratitude while meeting with the senators, those in the room said he also pushed back, telling senators he needed a security guarantee. A few senators told him to focus on the mineral deal first and return to security later.

MSN

www.msn.com

Logically you would want the Security deal before signing the mineral one.

 

[UK Girl]

Also, not sure the administration would trust him, he's reneged on his decision several times now, IIRC.

and Putin hasnt? We are where we are because of that!

 

[UK Girl]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
Vice President Vance is a strong leader, looking forward to seeing how he handles Zelezny's attempts to come back to the table in hopes of signing the agreement with the U.S. I suspect Vice President Vance will be sceptical that this time it will happen and if the commitment will be reneged on again, even after the fact this time. Maybe zelensky will sign it and then try to weasel out of it. That wouldn't surprise me.

Vance is finding it very hard to get on with other leaders and is aggressive to them also. He made his feelings clear on Ukraine years ago. Glad he isnt in our Parliament. He needs to learn to be more professional.

 

[UK Girl]

Vice President Vance's speech was critical in terms of the issue of freedom of speech which is one of the hallmarks of western democracy and it is disappearing from the UK and EU, and the Vice President gave examples of how free speech is being denied to citizens abroad. It was an excellent speech, IMO, and very timely and with no time to lose.

It was not a speech in the White house. Just a dig but the speech the other week ...he just came across as insulting tbh

 

[SouthAussie]

That is Ironic tbh. How many times others been drawn into a war to help the US?

I sometimes think that there are US people who don't understand just how many times we have all fought for the US. And we haven't even asked for our money back.

I know that Australia is not alone (by far) in fighting beside the US, in US-led campaigns, in the Vietnam war, in the Gulf war against Iraq, in the War on Terror in Afghanistan and Pakistan after 9/11, in Syria in 2014 .....

And I think that we have all lost good men and women - our citizens - in these campaigns.

I think we all did it because we thought we were a team ... standing up together against the aggressors. Fighting for what was right.

imo

 

[Deleted member 352484]

Churchill is pictured here visiting the White House in 1941 mostly in suit and tie.

Mr. Churchill in the White House

On December 13, 1941, six days after the “infamy” of Pearl Harbor, Winston Churchill boarded the battleship Duke of Yor...

www.whitehousehistory.org

 

[SouthAussie]

Churchill is pictured here visiting the White House in 1941 mostly in suit and tie.

Mr. Churchill in the White House

On December 13, 1941, six days after the “infamy” of Pearl Harbor, Winston Churchill boarded the battleship Duke of Yor...

www.whitehousehistory.org

Zelenskyy's choice of attire has apparently long been a talking point among right wing media circles. Goodness knows why. Pointless criticisms. Focusing on entirely the wrong thing. imo

Instead of "we cannot let Russia take over another country's land (and kill its people)" it is "ooh look what Zelenskyy is wearing to this important meeting". imo


Link


Zelensky has eschewed suits, button-down shirts and ties - even during important meetings with world leaders and an address to the US Congress - since the start of the full-scale Russian invasion of his country began in 2022.

The Ukrainian leader has said his choice of clothing is a show of solidarity with soldiers fighting the Russian army on the war's frontlines.

But it has long been an irritant for some critics of US aid to Ukraine, and after years as a talking point in right-wing media circles ....

How criticism of Zelensky's clothing made it to the Oval Office

The Ukrainian president's military-style attire was questioned by a Maga media star before he was upbraided by President Trump and JD Vance.

www.bbc.com

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Vice President Vance's speech was critical in terms of the issue of freedom of speech which is one of the hallmarks of western democracy and it is disappearing from the UK and EU, and the Vice President gave examples of how free speech is being denied to citizens abroad. It was an excellent speech, IMO, and very timely and with no time to lose.

Freedom of speech? Come on. It's the Trump administration that's banning words, and books. Apparently dangerous words like 'disability', 'equality' and 'inclusion' are no longer acceptable Stateside. Vance is in no position to be lecturing any country on free speech.

The List of Trump's Forbidden Words That Will Get Your Paper Flagged at NSF

It's fascism, plain and simple.

gizmodo.com

 

[MrsWatson]

If Zelenskyy showed up in a suit and tie, he would likely be criticized for that as well. "His country is at war yet he has time to get a new suit tailored and fitted."

Stupid thing to focus on, imo.

 

[Deleted member 352484]

Yes and I should note it actually runs close to 50 minutes with trump whining on and on about Obama and Biden and Hunter Biden. It is very revealing to listen to the discussions leading up to the loud exchange starting with Vance claiming Zelenskyy was ungrateful. Ib reality Zelenskyy was very grateful and eager about the deal up until that point, so Vance was apparently not listening at all.

Zelensky's constant eye rolling and face making throughout the entire press conference did not make it appear that he was grateful to be there. His statement that Ukraine has been doing it all alone is completely untrue and shows a lack of recognition for the tremendous amount of aid not only the US has given but all his other allies. He was called out for that particular remark in the UK and in Poland.

His arguing that diplomacy wouldn't work over and over...well why was he there in the first place? Why come if he is not interested in negotiations and diplomacy? JD eventually intervened rightly reminding him that he was in DC to get help to end the war. And those efforts include diplomacy. It was a ridiculous performance by Zelensky. Even ardent DC ally Lindsey Graham said afterward he did not see how we could move forward with Zelensky after the rift he created.

 

[JennieM]

35m ago11.31 GMT

Your 'interrogation' of Zelenskyy was 'insulting' to Ukrainians, former Polish president, Nobel Peace prize winner Wałęsa tells Trump​

Former Polish president and Solidarity founding leader Lech Wałęsa shows victory sign in front of Solidarity poster during his presidential campaign in Płock in this 1989. Photograph: Leszek Wdowiński/Reuters

Former Polish president and 1983 Nobel Peace prize winner Lech Wałęsa signed a letter to US president Donald Trump expressing “horror and distaste” at his argument with Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the White House last week.

The letter, signed by Wałęsa and over 30 former Polish political prisoners during the communist era, said that Trump and Vance’s demands that Zelenskyy showed gratefulness were “insulting” in the face of the Ukrainian nation’s heroic fight for freedom.

The signatories said that the “atmosphere in the Oval Office reminded us of that we remember well from interrogations” by Poland’s communist secret services and regime courts.

“The prosecutors and the judges, working on behalf of the omnipotent Communist party police, also told us that they held all the cards, and we held none,” they said.

“We are shocked that you treated Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the same, way,” they said.

They also reminded Trump of the US obligations under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which provided security guarantees for Ukraine in exchange for return of Soviet-era nuclear weapons.

German citizen, 40, identified as Mannheim suspect after two killed as car driven into crowd – as it happened

Police say no evidence that more suspects were involved in incident which left several people badly injured

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deleted member 352484]

The below site tracks contributions to Ukraine.

Western military aid to Ukraine - statistics & facts​

It is an excellent resource for those interested in numbers, types of support, and factual information regarding dollars and cents.​

The official US aid dashboard is below. You can't get more factual than this at least as far as US aid is concerned.

Funding

 

[Deleted member 352484]

I just re watched the Oval Office PC and it reaffirms my view that Zelenskyy was totally out of line during it.

He started early on with making faces when President Trump was talking. He complained about the mineral deal that he was there to sign wasn't enough even though Trump said that security would be addressed.

He rudely interrupted President Trump about the description of Ukrainian cities for no apparent reason. Never once thanked the US for all of it's help.

When VP Vance talked about how diplomacy needs to be used to end this war and not chest thumping like the past administration did, Zelenskyy thought it would be a good idea to attack him and tell him it wont work.

Zelenskyy then went on a rant, in the Oval Office, lecturing President Trump about how the Obama,Trump,and Biden admins didn't stop Russia from breaking deals. Talking over his host the whole time.

Zelenskyy screwed up by insulting the very people who are trying to save his country. Hopefully the damage can be repaired. JMO.

I believe Z also wrongly attacked Trump for not helping Ukraine in 2016, a year Obama was President.