- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 33,176
- Reaction score
- 217,271
It's not all about US aid. It's about Russia invading Ukraine. An oppressive regime invading a free country.
imo
Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12
- Thread starter MadMcGoo
- Start date
- Status
It's not all about US aid. It's about Russia invading Ukraine. An oppressive regime invading a free country.
imo
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 33,176
- Reaction score
- 217,271
Can I ask where you are getting your information? Is there a link?
The full transcript is here. I don't believe 2016 was even specifically mentioned. Zelenskyy was trying to explain his perspective from 2013 onwards. And how he signed deals with Putin and how Putin broke the deals. imo
Zelensky: [to Vance] Can I ask you [something]? Okay, so he occupied big parts of Ukraine, parts of the East and Crimea. So he occupied it on 2013 so during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but in those times there President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now the President Trump. And God bless President Trump will stop him. But during 2013 nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took he killed people.
Trump: “2015!”
Vance: “2014 to 2015.”
Trump: “I was not here.”
Zelensky: “But during 2014 till 2022 the situation was the same, that people are been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation, and we signed with him. Me like a new president in 2019 I signed with him. The deal I signed with him, Macron and Merkel. We signed ceasefire, ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him with gas contract... but after that, he broken the ceasefire He killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners we signed the exchange of prisons but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, are you talking about. What do you mean?”
Trump-Zelensky transcript in full: Every word of astonishing White House exchange over Ukraine-Russia war
Read the full transcript of the fiery exchange between the three men
Last edited:
4m ago12.25 GMT
Meanwhile in Brussels, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said she was planning to inform member states about her plans to strenghten the European defence industry and the EU’s military capabilities on Tuesday.
Von der Leyen, who attended the London summit on Sunday, told reporters that Europe needs “a massive surge in defence, without any question.”
“We want lasting peace, but lasting peace can only be built on strength, and strength begins with strengthening ourselves,” she said.
www.theguardian.com
Plans to rearm Europe to be unveiled on Tuesday, EU's von der Leyen says
Meanwhile in Brussels, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said she was planning to inform member states about her plans to strenghten the European defence industry and the EU’s military capabilities on Tuesday.
Von der Leyen, who attended the London summit on Sunday, told reporters that Europe needs “a massive surge in defence, without any question.”
“We want lasting peace, but lasting peace can only be built on strength, and strength begins with strengthening ourselves,” she said.
German citizen, 40, identified as Mannheim suspect after two killed as car driven into crowd – as it happened
Police say no evidence that more suspects were involved in incident which left several people badly injured
US defence secretary orders pause on cyber-offensive against Russia
Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered a pause in cyber operations against Russia in new guidance to US Cyber Command, officials tell the BBC's US partner CBS News.The reasoning for the instruction has not been publicly stated, and it is not clear how long the halt might last, with the defence department having declined to comment.
The directive reportedly came before Trump's televised row with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House on Friday.
According to cybersecurity publication, The Record - which first reported the news, external - hundreds or thousands of personnel could be affected by Hegseth's order. Operations aimed at strengthening Ukraine's digital defences are likely to be among those affected.
It leaves questions over the strength of the US fightback in the cyber arena against alleged Russian hacking, election interference and sabotage efforts that have targeted the Western nations which have sided with Ukraine during the war.
Read the full story here.
Zelensky ready to work under Trump's 'strong leadership' after 'regrettable' showdown
The Ukrainian president says last week's fiery Oval Office meeting "did not go the way it was supposed to", adding Kyiv is ready to sign a minerals deal.
www.bbc.co.uk
Ukraine confirms Russian strike on military training ground
Vitaliy Shevchenko
BBC Monitoring's Russia editor
Ukraine has confirmed that Russia earlier carried out a successful strike on a training ground in Dnipropetrovsk region, resulting in numerous casualties.
“The training ground tragedy is an awful result of an enemy strike,” Mykhaylo Drapaty, head of the Ukrainian Ground Forces, says in a statement on Facebook, external.
He did not say how many Ukrainian troops were killed and injured, but earlier prominent Ukrainian journalist Yuri Butusov, external put the number at more than 30 killed and about a hundred injured.
Responding to media criticism of the fact that so many troops were allowed to be at the same place at the same time, Gen Drapaty says:
“Everyone who approved decisions on that day and everyone who did not approve them in time – all will be held accountable... I will demand the harshest of punishments.”
In a separate statement, external, Ukraine’s Ground Forces said an investigation has been launched into the attack, which was carried out on 1 March.
www.bbc.co.uk
Vitaliy Shevchenko
BBC Monitoring's Russia editor
Ukraine has confirmed that Russia earlier carried out a successful strike on a training ground in Dnipropetrovsk region, resulting in numerous casualties.
“The training ground tragedy is an awful result of an enemy strike,” Mykhaylo Drapaty, head of the Ukrainian Ground Forces, says in a statement on Facebook, external.
He did not say how many Ukrainian troops were killed and injured, but earlier prominent Ukrainian journalist Yuri Butusov, external put the number at more than 30 killed and about a hundred injured.
Responding to media criticism of the fact that so many troops were allowed to be at the same place at the same time, Gen Drapaty says:
“Everyone who approved decisions on that day and everyone who did not approve them in time – all will be held accountable... I will demand the harshest of punishments.”
In a separate statement, external, Ukraine’s Ground Forces said an investigation has been launched into the attack, which was carried out on 1 March.
Zelensky ready to work under Trump's 'strong leadership' after 'regrettable' showdown
The Ukrainian president says last week's fiery Oval Office meeting "did not go the way it was supposed to", adding Kyiv is ready to sign a minerals deal.
www.bbc.co.uk
'If you want talks, don't target people with ballistic missiles', Zelensky tells Russia
Vitaliy ShevchenkoBBC Monitoring's Russia editor
In his latest social media post, Zelensky accuses Russia of continuing what he calls "air terror" against Ukraine.
"Ukraine is fighting for a normal and safe life, which it deserves, for peace - fair and lasting. We want this war to end. But Russia doesn't and it continues its air terror. Over the past week, more than 1,050 attack drones, almost 1,300 bombs and more than 20 missiles were launched against Ukraine to destroy cities and kill people."
"If you want talks, don't target people with ballistic missiles. To make Russia stop the strikes, we need the world to be more united and stronger," Zelensky adds.
Ukrainian police say two people and three more were injured in Russian attacks in the Donetsk region over the past 24 hours, which has damaged or destroyed dozens of houses.
In a separate update, they also say five were killed in the southern Kherson region, and 13 more injured, including three police officers who were evacuating the body of a 63-year-old man killed in a drone strike.
Zelensky ready to work under Trump's 'strong leadership' after 'regrettable' showdown
The Ukrainian president says last week's fiery Oval Office meeting "did not go the way it was supposed to", adding Kyiv is ready to sign a minerals deal.
www.bbc.co.uk
BIB - Exactly.'If you want talks, don't target people with ballistic missiles', Zelensky tells Russia
Vitaliy Shevchenko
BBC Monitoring's Russia editor
In his latest social media post, Zelensky accuses Russia of continuing what he calls "air terror" against Ukraine.
"Ukraine is fighting for a normal and safe life, which it deserves, for peace - fair and lasting. We want this war to end. But Russia doesn't and it continues its air terror. Over the past week, more than 1,050 attack drones, almost 1,300 bombs and more than 20 missiles were launched against Ukraine to destroy cities and kill people."
"If you want talks, don't target people with ballistic missiles. To make Russia stop the strikes, we need the world to be more united and stronger," Zelensky adds.
Ukrainian police say two people and three more were injured in Russian attacks in the Donetsk region over the past 24 hours, which has damaged or destroyed dozens of houses.
In a separate update, they also say five were killed in the southern Kherson region, and 13 more injured, including three police officers who were evacuating the body of a 63-year-old man killed in a drone strike.
Zelensky ready to work under Trump's 'strong leadership' after 'regrettable' showdown
The Ukrainian president says last week's fiery Oval Office meeting "did not go the way it was supposed to", adding Kyiv is ready to sign a minerals deal.
God, I hate Putin. I feel so bad for the Ukrainian people who just want to be able to get on with their lives in peace.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
- Messages
- 486
- Reaction score
- 2,245
IMO
A president doesn’t start with a clean slate. They inherit the choices, consequences, and unfinished business of the previous administration. The world doesn’t pause when leadership changes, and foreign policy, in particular, is a long game. Treaties, alliances, wars, economic policies—these don’t reset just because a new person takes office. A responsible leader understands that their job isn’t to erase the past but to navigate it, build on it, and, when necessary, correct course. Ignoring history doesn’t make it disappear; it just makes the mistakes more likely to repeat.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2021
- Messages
- 585
- Reaction score
- 2,922
Trump's supporters are as deluded as him. If WW3 starts then it will be a combination of him and Putin who are at fault.
Moo, jmo
Moo, jmo
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
- Messages
- 591
- Reaction score
- 8,060
IMO, there is no path to peace here without Putin’s death. Before the Nazis began their bombing campaign over Great Britain, Neville Chamberlain also thought there could be a path to peace with Hitler. Winston Churchill knew better. He knew that the only way through was with troops on the ground and to fight aggression with aggression, and to take the head off the snake. History is on his side with this.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2016
- Messages
- 1,064
- Reaction score
- 7,001
Yess!!4m ago12.25 GMT
Plans to rearm Europe to be unveiled on Tuesday, EU's von der Leyen says
Meanwhile in Brussels, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said she was planning to inform member states about her plans to strenghten the European defence industry and the EU’s military capabilities on Tuesday.
Von der Leyen, who attended the London summit on Sunday, told reporters that Europe needs “a massive surge in defence, without any question.”
“We want lasting peace, but lasting peace can only be built on strength, and strength begins with strengthening ourselves,” she said.
German citizen, 40, identified as Mannheim suspect after two killed as car driven into crowd – as it happened
Police say no evidence that more suspects were involved in incident which left several people badly injured
02/23/2022
Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday described Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as “genius” and “savvy,” praising his onetime counterpart for a move that has spurred sanctions and universal condemnation from the U.S. government and its trans-Atlantic allies.
“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said in a radio interview with “The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.” “He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.”
[…]
Trump, in his Tuesday radio interview, played up his relationship with Putin and said “I think nobody probably knows him better in terms of the discussions that we have or that we’re having this morning.”
“I knew that he always wanted Ukraine. I used to talk to him about it. I said, ‘You can’t do it. You’re not gonna do it.’ But I could see that he wanted it,” Trump said. “I knew Putin very well. I got along with him great. He liked me. I liked him. I mean, you know, he’s a tough cookie, got a lot of the great charm and a lot of pride. But the way he — and he loves his country, you know? He loves his country. He’s acting a little differently, I think now.”
www.politico.com
Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion
Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday described Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as “genius” and “savvy,” praising his onetime counterpart for a move that has spurred sanctions and universal condemnation from the U.S. government and its trans-Atlantic allies.
“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said in a radio interview with “The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.” “He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.”
[…]
Trump, in his Tuesday radio interview, played up his relationship with Putin and said “I think nobody probably knows him better in terms of the discussions that we have or that we’re having this morning.”
“I knew that he always wanted Ukraine. I used to talk to him about it. I said, ‘You can’t do it. You’re not gonna do it.’ But I could see that he wanted it,” Trump said. “I knew Putin very well. I got along with him great. He liked me. I liked him. I mean, you know, he’s a tough cookie, got a lot of the great charm and a lot of pride. But the way he — and he loves his country, you know? He loves his country. He’s acting a little differently, I think now.”
Trump calls Putin 'genius' and 'savvy' for Ukraine invasion
The former president's praise for Putin comes at a perilous geopolitical moment in Europe.
www.politico.com
Mon March 28, 2022
‘Is Putin smart?’ Yes, Putin was smart. And I actually thought he was going to be negotiating. I said, ‘That’s a hell of a way to negotiate, put 200,000 soldiers on the border.’” […] “They say, ‘Trump said Putin’s smart.’ I mean, he’s taking over a country for two dollars’ worth of sanctions,” Trump told a crowd at a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago, according to a recording of the event. “I’d say that’s pretty smart. He’s taking over a country – really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people, and just walking right in.”
‘Is Putin smart?’ Yes, Putin was smart. And I actually thought he was going to be negotiating. I said, ‘That’s a hell of a way to negotiate, put 200,000 soldiers on the border.’” […] “They say, ‘Trump said Putin’s smart.’ I mean, he’s taking over a country for two dollars’ worth of sanctions,” Trump told a crowd at a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago, according to a recording of the event. “I’d say that’s pretty smart. He’s taking over a country – really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people, and just walking right in.”
With Musk tanking the US economy we are done for anyway.
trumps disdain of the members of the armed services is well known and frequently expressed telling everyone he is weak and uneducated militarily making the US vulnerable.
Vance has shown he is not mentally fit to have a conversation with a foreign leader or present himself decently in front of others internationally. He comes off as an inexperienced, uncultured rube.
I’m surprised maga is not furious that Vance made Trump look so powerless and inconsequential while talking over him and causing the chaos that left Trump sitting there blankly looking like he needed to get it over with so he could run to his gold plated toilet.
all imo
trumps disdain of the members of the armed services is well known and frequently expressed telling everyone he is weak and uneducated militarily making the US vulnerable.
Vance has shown he is not mentally fit to have a conversation with a foreign leader or present himself decently in front of others internationally. He comes off as an inexperienced, uncultured rube.
I’m surprised maga is not furious that Vance made Trump look so powerless and inconsequential while talking over him and causing the chaos that left Trump sitting there blankly looking like he needed to get it over with so he could run to his gold plated toilet.
all imo
2h ago11.46 GMT
Financial reporter
Grant Shapps, the former UK defence secretary, views prototypes of the Challenger 3 tank at the Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land factory in Shropshire last April. Photograph: Peter Byrne/PA
Share prices in European weapons companies have soared as investors anticipated significantly higher spending after the UK and France led an effort to form a peace deal for Ukraine.
Britain’s BAE Systems rose by 17% in early trading on Monday, Germany’s Rheinmetall gained 14%, France’s Thales increased 16% and Italy’s Leonardo was up 10%.
The moves continued a steep rally in defence stocks as investors expected big increases in defence budgets by European countries, stoked by fears that Washington would withdraw security guarantees.
Defence bosses in Europe have long argued that weapons spending should be higher, and the prospect of the US removing its support has made politicians pay attention.
www.theguardian.com
European defence stocks soar after London summit
Jasper JollyFinancial reporter
Grant Shapps, the former UK defence secretary, views prototypes of the Challenger 3 tank at the Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land factory in Shropshire last April. Photograph: Peter Byrne/PA
Share prices in European weapons companies have soared as investors anticipated significantly higher spending after the UK and France led an effort to form a peace deal for Ukraine.
Britain’s BAE Systems rose by 17% in early trading on Monday, Germany’s Rheinmetall gained 14%, France’s Thales increased 16% and Italy’s Leonardo was up 10%.
The moves continued a steep rally in defence stocks as investors expected big increases in defence budgets by European countries, stoked by fears that Washington would withdraw security guarantees.
Defence bosses in Europe have long argued that weapons spending should be higher, and the prospect of the US removing its support has made politicians pay attention.
German citizen, 40, identified as Mannheim suspect after two killed as car driven into crowd – as it happened
Police say no evidence that more suspects were involved in incident which left several people badly injured
Pretty sure he wants his country to not have parts of it taken away by Russia. He does want peace, but peace doesn't mean "lets give Putin everything he wants even though he has defied the terms of peace agreements in the past". Maybe that's what peace means to some people.
LOL "Ran country with cronies and non elected donors". That's RICH, man. Really good. What do you call Elon Musk? I swear, if Biden had George Soros dismantling government funding (which is to only be done by elected leaders in Congress, by the way, that seems to be forgotten) MAGA would literally lose their minds. It's hilarious. Everything you just listed is exactly what DJT does. Of course, his actions can't be defended so the go to move is whataboutism. Trump did something so we say "BUT BUT BUT JOE BIDEN'S SON HAD A LAPTOP!!!111". Sorry, but it can't be debated because you don't believe in good faith arguments.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Messages
- 3,637
- Reaction score
- 41,222
Not all Conservatives are Pro-Israel & Anti-Ukraine; likewise not all Liberals are Anti-Israel and Pro-Ukraine. Some of each side are actually Pro-Israel & Pro-Ukraine. Some of each side are Anti-Israel & Anti-Ukraine.
I believe that the current issues arise from people forgetting that. There are wings on both side of the spectrum who hold to the belief that one must be 100% with them on everything or else they are cultists (whether that be MAGA or vice versa [TDS sufferers as they been called for years]) on the other side. The crowd of loud voices, from both sides, brushing all those moderates in the middle into the dustbins of MAGA or TDS-sufferers because they do not agree with 100% of their own personal beliefs is common. So is the mistaken belief that everyone votes "FOR" every policy by a particular candidate if they vote for them. This is borne out by the fact that many Democrats were absolutely aghast & against the last Presidental candidates 'easiness' on terrorists in the Gaza thus did not vote for her. And, also this time around by the volumes of those who supported Trump now posting to social media that "they didn't vote for this" now that they are losing their jobs and their medicaid/medicare is getting cut.
The truth is that most people are actually Centrists/Moderates. They agree with some policies and disagree with others.
Suffice to say that egos and being blinded by power as you put it seem to also aptly describe the current executive branch which directly leads to your last paragraph:
This war wasn't started by Biden J, as repeatedly is claimed these days. This war was started by Russia way back in 2014 when Russia illegally invaded Ukriane (the Crimea) after the completion of the Sochi Olympics. Nor has any NATO nation ever contributed a mere 1% of their GDP.
In life, as in war, facts matter. But, in war, facts often get pushed aside by propaganda. That doesn't make the facts any different. One just has to actually choose to go out and look for them rather than just believeing everything they hear; if they choose not to do so - that's on them. Ignoring facts will not make them right. That applies to BOTH sides of the equation and political spectrum.
Facts matter. Truth matters.
- Status
Similar threads
Staff online
-
FraizeAdministrator
Online statistics
- Members online
- 119
- Guests online
- 2,875
- Total visitors
- 2,994