Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[sds71]

Australia says that it is "open to consideration" of sending peacekeepers to Ukraine

“We want to see peace in Ukraine, but we want to make sure the illegal, immoral actions of Russia are not rewarded, and that Vladimir Putin and his designs, which are imperialistic, are not rewarded or encouraged.”

Albanese says Australian government now ‘open to consideration’ of sending troops to Ukraine

Prime minister departs from government’s earlier stance that support for possible ‘coalition of the willing’ was ‘not under consideration’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Of course it does
Anyone can see that Trump is compromised. And his accolytes are bending a knee. They aren't fighting for democracy. They are fighting for Putin. JMO.

Indeed, the term kompromat comes to mind.

 

[JennieM]

6m ago20.49 AEDT

Poland's foreign ministry: US decision to suspend military aid to Ukraine taken without consulting or informing allies​

Poland’s foreign ministry has said that the decision by the Trump administration to suspend US military aid to Ukraine was taken without consultation with allies.

Reuters reports that in a statement spokesperson Paweł Wroński said “This is a very important decision, and the situation is very serious. This sentence may sound banal, but it has great political significance – it (the decision) was made without any information, or consultation, neither with Nato allies, nor with the Ramstein group, which is involved in supporting Ukraine in its fight.”

US and Ukraine ‘preparing to sign minerals deal on Tuesday’, reports suggest – as it happened

Zelenskyy says his country is ready to sign minerals and security agreement while admitting White House meeting ‘did not go the way it was supposed to’

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

We are in era of rearmament, EU chief says, as she lays out defence plans

09:21​

Laura Gozzi
Europe reporter

More now from European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who earlier set out EU plans to boost defence spending.

"We are in an era of rearmament," she told a news conference before outlining the plans.

Her short address to the media came 48 hours before a summit with leaders on Thursday at which the proposals will be discussed.

The plan includes three proposals:

1. Allowing countries to increase defence spending without triggering EU mechanisms against budget deficits

2. €150bn in loans for defence investment in domains that could benefit the defence of the EU as a whole - so, for example, air and missile defence, anti-drone systems, and military mobility. This instrument would help pool demand, and joint procurement would reduce costs

3. Allowing countries to redirect funds earmarked for cohesion policy programmes (i.e. policies aimed at levelling the differences between more and less advantaged regions) to defence spending

Von der Leyen said her plan could mobilise a total of 800bn euros in defence expenditure "for a safe and resilient Europe".

"Europe is ready to step up," she said.

Zelensky ready to work under Trump's 'strong leadership' after 'regrettable' showdown

The Ukrainian president says last week's fiery Oval Office meeting "did not go the way it was supposed to", adding Kyiv is ready to sign a minerals deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BrianJohnson]

I am a Trump supporter, 100% I would have voted for him if I was American, but he is wrong about Ukraine, Putin must have some info on Trump that he is threatening to release unless Trump does what he says, Trump making big mistake holding back aid, it puts Europe in big danger

 

[Sarahlou]

I am a Trump supporter, 100% I would have voted for him if I was American, but he is wrong about Ukraine, Putin must have some info on Trump that he is threatening to release unless Trump does what he says, Trump making big mistake holding back aid, it puts Europe in big danger

Absolutely. I'd love to know what. Or then again maybe I wouldn't!

 

[RichardKimble]

I am a Trump supporter, 100% I would have voted for him if I was American, but he is wrong about Ukraine, Putin must have some info on Trump that he is threatening to release unless Trump does what he says, Trump making big mistake holding back aid, it puts Europe in big danger

Not sure on that, imo Trump is saying we cannot and will not put troops in or help out any more as things stand, but give us the rights to the minerals and we'll have reason to defend US interest and by default the Ukraine as well, might be blackmail of a kind.
One is certain Ukraine cannot push the Russians back alone without some military intervention from elsewhere.
What was it said in the WW11 overloud, oversexed, over here, now they appear to not want to be in Europe it's an issue, go figure, Europe is in a pile of do do of their own making and don't have the shoes for it.All opinion.

 

[JennieM]

Nato not consulted on Trump aid decision, Polish spokesman says​

Nato members were not consulted on the US's decision to stop sending military aid to Ukraine, Poland, a member of the military alliance, has said.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Pawel Wronski tells reporters that the decision is "very important" and the situation "is very serious".

He adds it had been taken "without informing, nor consulting" the United States' allies in the US-led Nato military alliance.

Zelensky ready to work under Trump's 'strong leadership' after 'regrettable' showdown

The Ukrainian president says last week's fiery Oval Office meeting "did not go the way it was supposed to", adding Kyiv is ready to sign a minerals deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

I am a Trump supporter, 100% I would have voted for him if I was American, but he is wrong about Ukraine, Putin must have some info on Trump that he is threatening to release unless Trump does what he says, Trump making big mistake holding back aid, it puts Europe in big danger

First, Putin has nothing on Trump as Trump first visited Russia in Gorbachev’s time. I have always been skeptical about true “kompromat” per se. I know that Trump was interested in building a hotel in Moscow, and then a Russian oligarch bought Trump’s mansion when he was bankrupt. But, now Trump has reached so much power and enjoys total support of his electorate so nothing of such sorts would even matter.

(Plus, logically, if there were some prior connection, Russia would be the least interested in releasing it.)

IMHO the explanation is far more simple: Russia needs removal of sanctions; on the other hand, the “deal” it can offer can be viewed as lucrative by Trump.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Not sure on that, imo Trump is saying we cannot and will not put troops in or help out any more as things stand, but give us the rights to the minerals and we'll have reason to defend US interest and by default the Ukraine as well, might be blackmail of a kind.
One is certain Ukraine cannot push the Russians back alone without some military intervention from elsewhere.
What was it said in the WW11 overloud, oversexed, over here, now they appear to not want to be in Europe it's an issue, go figure, Europe is in a pile of do do of their own making and don't have the shoes for it.All opinion.

Could well be that too re the minerals etc but even before that Ukraine were being frozen out of peace ‘negotiations’, USA only met with Russia and Ukraine were banned from the talks so basically any deal Russia and USA made would be imposed on Ukraine and that deal would be heavily stacked in favour of Russia

Any negotiations must involve Ukraine officials being in the same room as Russian officials, not a 1 sided deal with Ukraine being told take it or leave it which is the case now

 

[BrianJohnson]

First, Putin has nothing on Trump as Trump first visited Russia in Gorbachev’s time. I have always been skeptical about true “kompromat” per se. I know that Trump was interested in building a hotel in Moscow, and then a Russian oligarch bought Trump’s mansion when he was bankrupt. But, now Trump has reached so much power and enjoys total support of his electorate so nothing of such sorts would even matter.

(Plus, logically, if there were some prior connection, Russia would be the least interested in releasing it.)

IMHO the explanation is far more simple: Russia needs removal of sanctions; on the other hand, the “deal” it can offer can be viewed as lucrative by Trump.

Putin was head of the KGB during that time you mentioned, as it was cold war period or at least defrosting period after cold war I have no doubt the KGB would bug the hotel rooms/offices of Trump while he is in Moscow to be able to be used for blackmail purposes at a time convenient for Putin

 

[Charlot123]

Putin was head of the KGB during that time you mentioned, as it was cold war period or at least defrosting period after cold war I have no doubt the KGB would bug the hotel rooms/offices of Trump while he is in Moscow to be able to be used for blackmail purposes at a time convenient for Putin

Oy-oy. Not even close.

I think it was Dobrynin, the everlasting US ambassador since the Cuban crisis, who invited Trump to Moscow in 1987. It was in Gorbachev’s time. Trump was interested in building a hotel and I think the USSR was interested in young and perspective businessman, but never in the way of recruiting him. Lots of businessmen were visiting Moscow during the perestroika.

Now: I don’t know what Putin was doing at that time, probably, working in Dresden. The head of the KGB in 1987 was Chebrikov, in 1988 it was Kruchkov. Putin never, ever led KGB although he worked there. He was nominated the head of FSB the heir to the KGB, in 1998, under Yeltsin.So, ten years later.

Bugging hotel rooms is no news but I don’t think it yielded anything of significant proportions.

It is money interest from both sides now.

 

[statt#1]

Thing is if Russia is not stopped..all of Europe can be at risk so personally I would not be removed from it. Zelensky did not invade another country...and his men did not rape and kill thousands of young girls and women the last year or so. He did not steal God knows how many kids either. It isnt about T unless you count the part that he is potentially enabling Putin to take over more countries

This is exactly why Z messed up real bad. The "deal" with the U.S. would have put a huge investment in to U., not to mention literally hundreds, if not thousands of U.S. citizens in to the country. The benefits of such an economic union would have been undeniable. It would also bring P to the table. Who's going to bring P to the table? B didn't. No Euro has. Nobody has even spoken to P, nobody.

So, let the killing continue. Support the meat grinder, because that is what it is. Z needs money, and bodies. Give, and sign up now.

 

[Marantz4250b]

1h ago07.48 GMT

Senior Ukrainian lawmaker compares suspension of US military aid with 1938 appeasement of Hitler​

Reuters is now carrying a fuller quote from Oleksandr Merezhko, the chair of Ukraine’s parliamentary foreign affairs committee, who told the news agency that the Trump administration move to suspend military aid to Ukraine resembled the appeasement of Adolf Hitler with the Munich agreement of 1938.

The senior Ukrainian lawmaker said:



On 30 September 1938, Germany, Britain, France and Italy reached a settlement that permitted Nazi Germany’s annexation of the Sudetenland in what was then western Czechoslovakia.

US and Ukraine ‘preparing to sign minerals deal on Tuesday’, reports suggest – as it happened

Zelenskyy says his country is ready to sign minerals and security agreement while admitting White House meeting ‘did not go the way it was supposed to’

www.theguardian.com

It's worse than appeasement; it's alignment, perhaps even collusion.

Donald Trump is <modsnip> giving your country away to Russia.

This is playing out like The Man in the High Castle - in that story, the USA had lost the second world war and was divided up between the Nazi's on the east and the Japanese on the West. The USA under Trump is going to end up the same way with Russia controlling 75% and them allowing China and a few other like-minded countries take the rest. Donald Trump will end up being anointed by Putin as puppet similar to Petain in Vichy France.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Europe is not only trying to protect Ukraine but also itself from a now hostile previous ally: the US.

That is unfortunately quite correct.

 

[statt#1]

Why are you making it all about Trump?
This fight is about Ukraine and the survival of democracy.
It's actually the right who have supported industrialized weapons. The right didn't care about lives lost until it is now an excuse to support Putin.

Because it is T who is the only one who has attempted to bring P to the negotiation table. He is probably the only one who can bring P to the table. Z messed it up real bad.

So you imply you wish to see an all out war? You wish the creation of the Allied forces vs. the Axis, hence WW3. Do you even remotely realize the implications of this? T is not interested in this, neither are the American people. The Euro's and other warmongers will have to go it alone.

Sign up now, Z needs money, and meat, for the grinder.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

It's worse than appeasement; it's alignment, perhaps even collusion.

Donald Trump <modsnip> is giving your country away to Russia.

This is playing out like The Man in the High Castle - in that story the USA had lost the second world war and was divided up between the Nazi's on the east and the Japanese on the West. The USA under Trump is going to end up the same way with Russia controlling 75% and them allowing China and a few other like-minded countries take the rest. Donald Trump will end up being anointed by Putin as puppet similar to Petain in Vichy France.

I'm watching The Man in the High Castle at the moment. The parallels to the Trump-era US are chilling.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I am a Trump supporter, 100% I would have voted for him if I was American, but he is wrong about Ukraine, Putin must have some info on Trump that he is threatening to release unless Trump does what he says, Trump making big mistake holding back aid, it puts Europe in big danger

The problem with Trump is that he doesn't actually believe in anything at all. All he's interested in is the acquisition of power. Power for power's sake. He's in the party he is purely because he sees it as being able to get him what he wants. He's a bully and a bigot and doesn't care about other humans.

I honestly find it difficult to believe how anyone can place any trust in him, I genuinely do. He lies and lies and lies and his supporters say nothing and even repeat his lies.

What your political leanings happen to be are irrelevant, imo. No one with any sense can possibly align behind Trump, regardless of what he claims his political stance is.

If DT goes on like this for the next four years then the USA is absolutely finished. It will be a vassal state of Russia and nothing more. As my above post, Man In The High Castle territory.

 

[snarast]

Because it is T who is the only one who has attempted to bring P to the negotiation table. He is probably the only one who can bring P to the table. Z messed it up real bad.

So you imply you wish to see an all out war? You wish the creation of the Allied forces vs. the Axis, hence WW3. Do you even remotely realize the implications of this? T is not interested in this, neither are the American people. The Euro's and other warmongers will have to go it alone.

Sign up now, Z needs money, and meat, for the grinder.

Appeasement didn’t work so well for Chamberlain. He only had the British channel to protect him, though, not the entire Atlantic.

 

[JennieM]

17m ago11.55 GMT
Prime minister of Ukraine, Denys Shmyhal, has said any US end to military aid to Ukraine puts the use of Patriot air defence systems at risk. Reuters reports he said that there were risks over repairs, maintenance and supplies of munitions for the Patriots, and that they are the only system Ukraine has that is capable of repelling Russian ballistic missile strikes.



19m ago11.53 GMT
Just to note that what Poland’s prime minister Donald Tusk has said there, that his information is that the US has already implemented a decision to cease military aid to Ukraine, contrasts with noises coming from Ukraine itself.

Suspilne, Ukraine's state broadcaster, on its official Telegram channel, just quoted prime minister Denys Shmyhal saying “there is no information that anything has been stopped.”

US and Ukraine ‘preparing to sign minerals deal on Tuesday’, reports suggest – as it happened

Zelenskyy says his country is ready to sign minerals and security agreement while admitting White House meeting ‘did not go the way it was supposed to’

www.theguardian.com