4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[Sweeper2000]

If we're going to discuss theories of intended target, I think this is important to mention. It makes me wonder if he had a diagram in his head of what he intended to do. While he did not sexually assault any victim, that we know of, that doesn't mean that this wasn't a sexually motivated crime. I think it's safe to say that his target(s) were women (and that he identifies as a man). He wasn't there for Ethan, IMO.

If he was there for Maddie, as implied in your post (and I think that's the best guess we have in terms of the single target theory), perhaps he intended sexual assault in one of his mental scenarios. Finding MM and KG in bed together may have set him off in a different direction, obviously (if he entered with the idea of doing something to MM, he quickly expanded into a much larger crime).

IMO.

do you think that could explain why they found the knife sheaf? The excess over and above the original plan caused that mistake?

 

[ReadyorNot]

How does LE know that the murder weapon was a KA-BAR vs an Ontario Knife Co 498?

https://www.amazon.com/KA-BAR-Marine-Corps-Fighting-Straight/dp/B001H53Q6M/ref=sr_1_2?crid=11TP2A0J0IJO6&keywords=ka+bar&qid=1684622811&sprefix=ka+bar%2Caps%2C439&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knife-8180-Marine-Combat/dp/B0001WBIGM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1TP6NCM759PNV&keywords=ontario+knife+498&qid=1684622606&sprefix=ontario+knife+498%2Caps%2C228&sr=8-1

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Probably based upon the sheath left behind.

 

[U.N. Known]

(SNIPPED)

I disagree that if he was awful to some women (or even most women) that the colleague would know about it. I know of many, many examples of inappropriate behavior directed by colleagues at others, when most people did not ever think the inappropriate person would do such a thing. It's the very stuff of which Title IX and other complaints are filled. Indeed, the guy who was kicked out of my own program (made national news, at the time) was perfectly nice to me, but it turned out he was actively harassing two other women in my program. The women he was harassing were not shocked, however.

That's just one example. I have many more, in which people were shocked when the truth came out.

Some women have a high threshold for untoward behavior, some don't.

If it is true that LE thinks he may have been the person who moved her stuff around (a common think that a creeper/peeper will escalate into doing), then surely she's creeped out now (when we discovered who was breaking into our house a few years ago, I assure you I was shocked at who it was, we had been friendly for 2-3 years at the time). I also believe that while maybe Kohberger's sister(s) were pondering whether he was involved in the murders, that it likely came as a shock to his parents.

One cannot use statistics to know whether someone like Kohberger has a problem with women. We know one woman was, and that the school investigated but apparently did not find his behavior problematic (the situation with the following one woman to her car). The woman who stormed out of the seminar because of things he was saying may or may not be that same woman. We just don't know. Many, many bright women have missed clues and cues of impending trouble with assailants (male and female).

IMO.

I completely agree that everyone in the department/workplace may not know of another's behavior. I've been on both ends of those types of revelations--shocked when others weren't' and completely unsurprised when others were shocked.

In my earlier post, I was referencing this case specifically due to the way BK's behavior with women has been reported. His interactions with women have been described as or insinuated to be commonplace and obvious. If those characterizations are true, IMO, his close colleagues (at least one comfortable to ask for a ride or advice) would have seen or heard evidence of that behavior. Of course, we may never know the truth.

~I skipped the episode so I did not hear the comments attributed to his sister. Did Dateline say that they spoke with her or that she confided in someone who knows someone who knows her? I would not shield my brother from LE if I believed he was a murderer, but I sure wouldn't tell a random reporter that I thought he was capable of murder.

 

[MassGuy]

It was @Tealgrove best I can tell, with you agreeing

Boom! That’s the one. Well done @Tealgrove

 

[SpiderFalcon]

I completely agree that everyone in the department/workplace may not know of another's behavior. I've been on both ends of those types of revelations--shocked when others weren't' and completely unsurprised when others were shocked.

In my earlier post, I was referencing this case specifically due to the way BK's behavior with women has been reported. His interactions with women have been described as or insinuated to be commonplace and obvious. If those characterizations are true, IMO, his close colleagues (at least one comfortable to ask for a ride or advice) would have seen or heard evidence of that behavior. Of course, we may never know the truth.

~I skipped the episode so I did not hear the comments attributed to his sister. Did Dateline say that they spoke with her or that she confided in someone who knows someone who knows her? I would not shield my brother from LE if I believed he was a murderer, but I sure wouldn't tell a random reporter that I thought he was capable of murder.

They said "a source"....

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

So if this is true (ie source is solid, MOO), then it will put to rest various other decipherings for this item in the PA search warrant return for parent's residence in favour of "ID cards in glove inside box" (as opposed to "10 cards" or "10 curls"). Also prior discussion here re is it an actual "glove" (for a hand), a card holder - but referred to by the writer as a glove, or a vehicle glove box detached from a vehicle and found inside the residence (!). MOO

Yes! And if it is true it would be a real find for LE. I wonder what the interviews of the owners of the stolen IDs might reveal about their connection with BK (and their connection with one another). I would think it might bolster the worrisomeness of BK's interest in his dance with danger.

 

[Cindizzi]

Thanks.
I didn't see this posted here on WS over the last month, but must have missed it.

I can see why I missed it. I refuse to listen to NN unless it’s Brian Entin reporting.
jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I can see why I missed it. I refuse to listen to NN unless it’s Brian Entin reporting.
jmo

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It’s not an unusual move unfortunately. You like a girl, and you scare her to draw her in. Odds are he did it IMO.

 

[Megnut]

What doesn't make sense: 0 to 60. Going from law-abiding grad student to murderer, once or four times over.

What does make sense: a regulated life punctuated by escalating points of deviance.

Watching
Staring
Creeping
Following
Prowling
Burglaring
Touching
Taking
Rearranging
Obsessing
Ruminating
Simmering
Stalking
Stealthing
Violating

I suspect there will be more.

jmo

 

[Cindizzi]

It’s not an unusual move unfortunately. You like a girl, and you scare her to draw her in. Odds are he did it IMO.

I can totally believe he did it. Just had never heard this story before Dateline last night.

I can imagine the woman looking back on that and being freaked out to think she might have dodged a bullet there.

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

This, to me, is explosive. Why would his sister think that and how did dateline find out about that?

Presumably, since they quote "sister," they talked to one of the sisters, who did not want to say which one she was.

Lawsuit city, otherwise.

People do talk, though. No one in PA is under the gag order.

IOM. It is explosive. But normal. The sister saw what she saw.

 

[Tealgrove]

Boom! That’s the one. Well done @Tealgrove

Thank you @MassGuy. I finally hit the nail on the head for once. LOL

Who knew how important that piece of evidence would turn out to be?

I hope it sinks his ship and turns out to be the thing that does him in.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Probably based upon the sheath left behind.

I have a KA-BAR sheath that I bought for my Ontario 498 because the one that came with the 498 is really poor quality.

The 498 is a much better value than the more expensive KA-BAR. They are nearly identical except for price.

So having a KA-BAR sheath doesn't mean I own a KA-BAR knife.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MAZIA0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[10ofRods]

do you think that could explain why they found the knife sheaf? The excess over and above the original plan caused that mistake?

I believe leaving the sheath was a huge mistake. I can only swing one of two ways. Those who believe he left the sheath on purpose must, perforce, believe he wanted attention - and to be caught.

I think he wanted media attention, but as a spectator sitting at home, watching. He did not mean to leave the sheath. Something went awry in his planning OR something happened in real time to make him forget this essential thing. A noise downstairs? The horror of the moment?

But if he had a fantasy about scaring/raping/assaulting Maddie and he found Kaylee there, he may have been surprised into forgetting. We may never know if Kaylee entered the room after he was always there, perhaps she was the one who said "There's someone here" and aimed her voice down the stairwell. She would have known that Maddie's BF was out of town and that no one was expected.

If so, Kaylee helped to provide a crucial clue. I do not think he left that sheath on purpose, at all.

IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you @MassGuy. I finally hit the nail on the head for once. LOL

Who knew how important that piece of evidence would turn out to be?

I hope it sinks his ship and turns out to be the thing that does him in.

You didn’t hit the nail on the head as much as you drove it into his coffin.

Well, he did that. But you crushed it.

 

[Tealgrove]

You didn’t hit the nail on the head as much as you drove it into his coffin.

Well, he did that. But you crushed it.

Lol. Let’s hope so.

 

[schooling]

I have a KA-BAR sheath that I bought for my Ontario 498 because the one that came with the 498 is really poor quality.

The 498 is a much better value than the more expensive KA-BAR. They are nearly identical except for price.

So having a KA-BAR sheath doesn't mean I own a KA-BAR knife.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MAZIA0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

IMO LE has a receipt to the knife. And then got help from KaBar to trace the sheath and possibly the accompanying (now missing) knife to the distributor and out to the retailer.

They'll have the jurors following along from KaBar -> Distributor -> Amazon (or another retailer) -> BK -> Murder scene.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I completely agree that everyone in the department/workplace may not know of another's behavior. I've been on both ends of those types of revelations--shocked when others weren't' and completely unsurprised when others were shocked.

In my earlier post, I was referencing this case specifically due to the way BK's behavior with women has been reported. His interactions with women have been described as or insinuated to be commonplace and obvious. If those characterizations are true, IMO, his close colleagues (at least one comfortable to ask for a ride or advice) would have seen or heard evidence of that behavior. Of course, we may never know the truth.

~I skipped the episode so I did not hear the comments attributed to his sister. Did Dateline say that they spoke with her or that she confided in someone who knows someone who knows her? I would not shield my brother from LE if I believed he was a murderer, but I sure wouldn't tell a random reporter that I thought he was capable of murder.

I don't believe they ever said they spoke with the sister. For all we know, it could have been a someone who heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone's lawn guy's brother's nephew's babysitter.

JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Presumably, since they quote "sister," they talked to one of the sisters, who did not want to say which one she was.

Lawsuit city, otherwise.

People do talk, though. No one in PA is under the gag order.

IOM. It is explosive. But normal. The sister saw what she saw.

They actually didn't quote the sister. They relayed information they had been given about the sister. There's a big difference.

JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I completely agree that everyone in the department/workplace may not know of another's behavior. I've been on both ends of those types of revelations--shocked when others weren't' and completely unsurprised when others were shocked.

In my earlier post, I was referencing this case specifically due to the way BK's behavior with women has been reported. His interactions with women have been described as or insinuated to be commonplace and obvious. If those characterizations are true, IMO, his close colleagues (at least one comfortable to ask for a ride or advice) would have seen or heard evidence of that behavior. Of course, we may never know the truth.

~I skipped the episode so I did not hear the comments attributed to his sister. Did Dateline say that they spoke with her or that she confided in someone who knows someone who knows her? I would not shield my brother from LE if I believed he was a murderer, but I sure wouldn't tell a random reporter that I thought he was capable of murder.

The way I take it, the ask from the colleague to help her..happened early in their first semester. At best, this group of grad students knew each other from mid-August to late November, at which point, things were falling apart and people are said to have been annoyed with Kohberger.

Someone comes into her apt. early in the semester. She's scared (surely it was more than one incident, because the first time, most people would make a mental note and wonder if they were forgetful; then, it kept happening). Obviously, I'm just guessing, but that would be my initial theory.

She contacts police at some point (perhaps asking Kohberger to help at the same time).

Dateline did not say how they got the info from the sister, IMO. It sounds like the sister does not want to shield him. She told Dateline (either directly, which I assume; or indirectly) that he was all of a sudden wearing latex gloves, and using bleach to clean his car. The family knew of the murders and the white Elantra, she said. She began to wonder.

So scary, really.

I still don't think that just because some women were talking and upset about BK that all the women in the program had heard this salacious info. I only know my own experiences, and usually, women share such things with their closest friends first. He was, after all, part of their program. Collegial respect and everything. OTOH, surely everyone saw what the Dateline program calls his "know-it-all"ness. But that's not necessarily related to gender or sex. In my own case, I judged people on my own personal experience of them, and not anything else.

When I see Kohberger interacting with the Pullman cop, I see a man capable of acting polite and normal. In the classroom, well, people can be weird. I've never thought that an intense conversation in which a man who followed me out to the parking lot was weird. However, after I learned some facts about one of my colleagues in grad school, all that changed.

I'm not known for my real world intuitions about people, at all. Many academics are serious and unable to get out of their academic thoughts.

What we're hearing may be outliers (women who were more sensitive to his attitude). It is the workplace and a university, a lot of assume that others may be eccentric, but it takes quite a bit for me to brand someone as a "problem." I can imagine that a criminology program (like an anthro program) has some loners and eccentrics, and that people thought little about it - until the students in the undergrad classes started to complain (and when that one woman left the classroom in response to BK's "sexism," or whatever, I do wonder if people just dismissed her as too sensitive rather than figuring BK was a lost cause.

It could be either way, though, and I do appreciate the conversation with you around this topic. I am guessing the prof who organized the confrontation with Kohberger was thinking more like me (that everybody was normal and would play their proper roles in the fake trial). Unlike me, that prof might also have wanted more evidence as to how Kohberger responded to group pressure.

imo, jmo.