4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[gremlin444]

I think BF/DM didn't see Xana, HJ is the only one who did and didn't give details to BF/DM. Been thinking about what HJ might have seen or not, and I've changed my mind. He did see...and was not telling the girls, IMHO.

Here's why:

The transcript is hard because there aren't time stamps on each line, and at many points it appears that people are speaking over each other (like other first responders later in the transcript) and some lines seem like they are things that are heard on the 911 tape not because that person is currently speaking on the phone but because they are heard in the background.

According to the transcript and what we glean from reading:
A: answerer female DM or BF
A1: another female answerer, who identified herself as a neighbor
A2: answerer male--HJ

For the first part of the call we've only had the voices of DM/BF and the neighbor both directly speaking on the phone or heard in the background. Then dispatch starts pressing BF or DM on whether or not their roommate is currently passed out/cutting her off before she can explain what happened in the middle of the night.

DM/BF seems to indicate that they are going to physically head back to the house/to the room to check. IMHO, it seems like HJ comes out then, DM/BF sees his face and is asking him what's going on/what he saw. She then puts the phone in HJ's hand after stating Xana's age:

DM/BF: "Yeah, I'll come - come on. Let's - we gotta go check. But we have to. Is she passed out? She's passed out. What's wrong?"
Dispatch: "Dispatching Moscow Law ambulance for..."
DM/BF: "She's not waking up."
Dispatch: "...unconsciousness, 1122 King Road."
(bunch of dispatch two different first responders talking over each other)
HJ: "Yeah. Yeah, it's (Evan)." (IMHO, heard in the background of DM/BF being on the phone. I think he might have said Ethan)
Dispatch: "20 you said?"
DM/BF: "Yes, 20, here do you wanna talk to 'em?"
Dispatch: "Okay."
HJ: "Hello? Hello?"
Dispatch: "Okay. I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people."
HJ: "Okay. Sorry. They just gave me the phone."
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "Hello?"
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "No."
----
HJ: "(Bethany) or (Dylan) I need you to - to talking to them, okay? I can't talk to them. I need you to talk to them."
the phone then goes back to DM or BF for the rest of the call

****

HJ, who was Ethan's friend summoned by the girls to help, is the one who went in the house and to Xana's room. This is all IMHO, MOO:

HJ is not present for the first part of the call. He went up, saw that Xana was dead, calls or texts DM or BF telling them to call 911. He doesn't give them any details AT ALL. Literally just something as short as "Call 911 now!" So when DM or BF call 911, they are only operating on what they knew--they'd been calling and texting Xana, she wasn't responding, maybe drunk and passed out--hopefully?

Actually, note that the neighbor is the one who tells dispatch that Xana had been drinking the night before/passed out/not waking up. Even when dispatch asks DM or BF just a few seconds later if X is passed out, DM or BF answers that they really don't know. I imagine the neighbor isn't really clear at that moment on what BF and DM had told her happened the night before. Drunk and passed out is the neighbor's interpretation.

After HJ has come out mid call and BF/DM senses something is wrong from the look on his face/a response that isn't heard on tape/a headshake, I think BF/DM shoves the phone at HJ--hoping that since he had just gone to check on Xana, he would be able to give dispatch better details than she could.

But HJ, imho, is in shock. But when dispatch asks if Xana is breathing, HJ answers unequivocally "No."

If HJ is saying that, it is because he either got close enough to Xana to see that her chest wasn't moving or he got close enough to see enough details that he knew she was dead and way beyond the help of an ambulance. Does he know how to tell the girls that right then, is he just horrified beyond belief, can he even imagine telling the girls right there standing outside the house that Xana (and probably everyone else) is dead? Does he figure it really doesn't matter if 911 has specific details right now---because from what he saw there is nothing an ambulance can do?

As soon as he can, he tells the girls he can't talk on the phone.

It appears to me that shortly after that, more than one first responder arrives. I think HJ takes one of them away from DM/BF (they are still on the phone and talking to one of the officers who has arrived about a defibrillator) and tells him what he saw. Because just as soon as DM/BF get off the phone with dispatch, an officer tells dispatch that he thinks they have a homicide..and I think that happens too soon after first responders arrive for them to have gotten into the house and gotten to where Xana is.

 

[gremlin444]

Perceived doesn't just mean obtaining information directly by sight/sound/taste/smell/touch. It also means to have gained awareness or understanding of something.

The female neighbor (who I think could be EA), has a perception of what has happened based what she's been able to get from DM/BF. DM/BF have a perception of what the situation might be in that very moment based on their observations and discussions the night before.

 

[wendy44]

I think BF/DM didn't see Xana, HJ is the only one who did and didn't give details to BF/DM. Been thinking about what HJ might have seen or not, and I've changed my mind. He did see...and was not telling the girls, IMHO.

Here's why:

The transcript is hard because there aren't time stamps on each line, and at many points it appears that people are speaking over each other (like other first responders later in the transcript) and some lines seem like they are things that are heard on the 911 tape not because that person is currently speaking on the phone but because they are heard in the background.

According to the transcript and what we glean from reading:
A: answerer female DM or BF
A1: another female answerer, who identified herself as a neighbor
A2: answerer male--HJ

For the first part of the call we've only had the voices of DM/BF and the neighbor both directly speaking on the phone or heard in the background. Then dispatch starts pressing BF or DM on whether or not their roommate is currently passed out/cutting her off before she can explain what happened in the middle of the night.

DM/BF seems to indicate that they are going to physically head back to the house/to the room to check. IMHO, it seems like HJ comes out then, DM/BF sees his face and is asking him what's going on/what he saw. She then puts the phone in HJ's hand after stating Xana's age:

DM/BF: "Yeah, I'll come - come on. Let's - we gotta go check. But we have to. Is she passed out? She's passed out. What's wrong?"
Dispatch: "Dispatching Moscow Law ambulance for..."
DM/BF: "She's not waking up."
Dispatch: "...unconsciousness, 1122 King Road."
(bunch of dispatch two different first responders talking over each other)
HJ: "Yeah. Yeah, it's (Evan)." (IMHO, heard in the background of DM/BF being on the phone. I think he might have said Ethan)
Dispatch: "20 you said?"
DM/BF: "Yes, 20, here do you wanna talk to 'em?"
Dispatch: "Okay."
HJ: "Hello? Hello?"
Dispatch: "Okay. I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people."
HJ: "Okay. Sorry. They just gave me the phone."
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "Hello?"
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "No."
----
HJ: "(Bethany) or (Dylan) I need you to - to talking to them, okay? I can't talk to them. I need you to talk to them."
the phone then goes back to DM or BF for the rest of the call

****

HJ, who was Ethan's friend summoned by the girls to help, is the one who went in the house and to Xana's room. This is all IMHO, MOO:

HJ is not present for the first part of the call. He went up, saw that Xana was dead, calls or texts DM or BF telling them to call 911. He doesn't give them any details AT ALL. Literally just something as short as "Call 911 now!" So when DM or BF call 911, they are only operating on what they knew--they'd been calling and texting Xana, she wasn't responding, maybe drunk and passed out--hopefully?

Actually, note that the neighbor is the one who tells dispatch that Xana had been drinking the night before/passed out/not waking up. Even when dispatch asks DM or BF just a few seconds later if X is passed out, DM or BF answers that they really don't know. I imagine the neighbor isn't really clear at that moment on what BF and DM had told her happened the night before. Drunk and passed out is the neighbor's interpretation.

After HJ has come out mid call and BF/DM senses something is wrong from the look on his face/a response that isn't heard on tape/a headshake, I think BF/DM shoves the phone at HJ--hoping that since he had just gone to check on Xana, he would be able to give dispatch better details than she could.

But HJ, imho, is in shock. But when dispatch asks if Xana is breathing, HJ answers unequivocally "No."

If HJ is saying that, it is because he either got close enough to Xana to see that her chest wasn't moving or he got close enough to see enough details that he knew she was dead and way beyond the help of an ambulance. Does he know how to tell the girls that right then, is he just horrified beyond belief, can he even imagine telling the girls right there standing outside the house that Xana (and probably everyone else) is dead? Does he figure it really doesn't matter if 911 has specific details right now---because from what he saw there is nothing an ambulance can do?

As soon as he can, he tells the girls he can't talk on the phone.

It appears to me that shortly after that, more than one first responder arrives. I think HJ takes one of them off to the away from DM/BF (they are still on the phone and talking to one of the officers who has arrived about a defibrillator) and tells him what he saw. Because just as soon as DM/BF get off the phone with dispatch, an officer tells dispatch that he thinks they have a homicide..and I think that happens too soon after first responders arrive for them to have gotten into the house and gotten to where Xana is.

This is exactly what I think happened--when she said "we gotta go check"--BF and DM weren't up there and had sent someone else up there because they were too scared. They knew at that point something was really wrong. HJ did not tell them what he saw.

And your point about XK wearing black in the photos from earlier is such a good one--we obviously missed part of the context of that text thread, whether they had spoken on the phone or had already been texting and that part isn't included. Maybe DM either told BF or texted her about seeing someone all in black and BF reminded her that XK had been wearing all black.
JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I hope I am not reposting it. It just popped up in my Google news today.

Idaho student killings: Three-person mixture of unknown DNA found under fingernails of Madison Mogen, filing shows | CNN

A three-person mixture of unknown DNA was found under a 21-year-old University of Idaho student’s fingernails after she and three other students were killed at an off-campus home in November 2022, a new filing reveals.

amp.cnn.com

If I understand correctly, the defense insists on the DNAs found under MM’s fingernails tested, and the prosecution doesn’t think it is necessary?

 

[wendy44]

can anyone give me a summary of what this new evidence presents? does it change anything? he dna under mm's finger nails is interesting but there doesn't seem to be much detail about it, ie was it dna from blood or other material? was it found under just one nail? was it in copious amounts?

I'm wondering if they should do a roundup of people the guys were known to be in contact with immediately preceding the murders in an effort to rule out people. its been done before now, they just dispose of the sample after.

They did apparently test at least 4 other people, whose likely ratio was reported as inconclusive, just as BK's was, according to MIL#5. They may have tested many more people than that--these four are highlighted because they, like BK, came back inconclusive. The defense team's independent testing ruled him out as a contributor (so again, the idea that the defense doesn't have access to the evidence and isn't doing their own testing is not supported at all--they can and they are).
JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-Motion-inLimine5-RE-Inconclusive-Data.pdf

 

[wendy44]

I hope I am not reposting it. It just popped up in my Google news today.

Idaho student killings: Three-person mixture of unknown DNA found under fingernails of Madison Mogen, filing shows | CNN

A three-person mixture of unknown DNA was found under a 21-year-old University of Idaho student’s fingernails after she and three other students were killed at an off-campus home in November 2022, a new filing reveals.

amp.cnn.com

If I understand correctly, the defense insists on the DNAs found under MM’s fingernails tested, and the prosecution doesn’t think it is necessary?

No, it was tested. The defense filed the motion to limit testimony because it might allow the jury to infer that the inconclusive data would mean he might be included and that would be prejudicial to BK.
JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-Motion-inLimine5-RE-Inconclusive-Data.pdf

 

[schooling]

No, it was tested. The defense filed the motion to limit testimony because it might allow the jury to infer that the inconclusive data would mean he might be included and that would be prejudicial to BK.
JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-Motion-inLimine5-RE-Inconclusive-Data.pdf

Not to mention by all of the reporting that's been done so far, Maddie might have been the only one who actually died in her sleep or in a barely awoken state.

Out of all 3 roommates she's the only one that we've seen no reporting over fighting back (doesn't mean that it doesn't exist). And she might have been the one to give the coroner cover for her early claims.

MOO

 

[schooling]

Maybe it wasn’t all 4 talking at some point to the dispatcher, but the State is saying “all declarants” (which there are 4 identified) “personally perceived the event (i.e.- Kernodle unresponsive)” FWIW.

I'm a 6'2" 200lbs grown adult. I can barely look at a scraped knee.

I don't think it stretches the imagination that these kids knew something horrible happened and none of them wanted to discover their friends in a horrible state.

 

[MassGuy]

 

[justwannahelp]

Those poor parents. My heart goes out to them. Just gut wrenching knowing what their children suffered.

 

[technicallymissing]

This article is from about two months after Xana, Ethan, Maddie and Kaylee were killed, but given the release of the 911 call transcript I think it’s worth reposting.
Alanna Zabel was 19 years old in 1992 when a man broke into her sorority house and raped and very nearly killed one of her roommates, beating her with a hammer and leaving her for dead.

She slept through an attack in her home - and has a message about the Idaho murders

There are many chilling similarities between the murders of four Idaho students in November and a 1992 attack at a student home in Buffalo – none more so than the experiences of the roommates who survived. Alanna Zabel tells Rachel Sharp why she feels the need to defend the surviving roommate in...

www.the-independent.com

One night in September – in the excitement of the fall semester – the roommates had gone to a party at the Sigma Chi fraternity nearby.

The victim was first to head home in the early hours of the morning.

When Ms Zabel arrived home some time later, the door was locked and she couldn’t get hold of her roommate to let her into the house.

In typically comic student fashion, she clambered carefree through the bathroom window.

Once inside, she noticed that it “smelled weird”. She called out to her roommate, but after hearing heavy breathing coming from her bedroom she left her alone – simply assuming that her roommate and roommate’s boyfriend were inside.

“I was drunk and didn’t understand why it smelled weird and I just kind of crashed in my room,” she says.

(Below is a bit later in the article where she also discusses finding her roommate the next morning)

The next morning, she discovered her sorority sister in a pool of blood.

Except even then, she explains that she didn’t even realise it was blood.

“I had really unique experience as I found my housemate and I didn’t see the blood,” she says.

“I just saw liquid. My friend was taking her pulse and I thought that she had choked on her own vomit. Right away I said it was vomit.

“Then when the paramedics arrived, they stepped into the room and said the word ‘blood’.

“And in that millisecond the entire room was red.”

Ms Zabel says she has since learned that her mind leaped into a defence mechanism to help her deal with the trauma of what she was seeing and experiencing.

 

[justwannahelp]

I think BF/DM didn't see Xana, HJ is the only one who did and didn't give details to BF/DM. Been thinking about what HJ might have seen or not, and I've changed my mind. He did see...and was not telling the girls, IMHO.

Here's why:

The transcript is hard because there aren't time stamps on each line, and at many points it appears that people are speaking over each other (like other first responders later in the transcript) and some lines seem like they are things that are heard on the 911 tape not because that person is currently speaking on the phone but because they are heard in the background.

According to the transcript and what we glean from reading:
A: answerer female DM or BF
A1: another female answerer, who identified herself as a neighbor
A2: answerer male--HJ

For the first part of the call we've only had the voices of DM/BF and the neighbor both directly speaking on the phone or heard in the background. Then dispatch starts pressing BF or DM on whether or not their roommate is currently passed out/cutting her off before she can explain what happened in the middle of the night.

DM/BF seems to indicate that they are going to physically head back to the house/to the room to check. IMHO, it seems like HJ comes out then, DM/BF sees his face and is asking him what's going on/what he saw. She then puts the phone in HJ's hand after stating Xana's age:

DM/BF: "Yeah, I'll come - come on. Let's - we gotta go check. But we have to. Is she passed out? She's passed out. What's wrong?"
Dispatch: "Dispatching Moscow Law ambulance for..."
DM/BF: "She's not waking up."
Dispatch: "...unconsciousness, 1122 King Road."
(bunch of dispatch two different first responders talking over each other)
HJ: "Yeah. Yeah, it's (Evan)." (IMHO, heard in the background of DM/BF being on the phone. I think he might have said Ethan)
Dispatch: "20 you said?"
DM/BF: "Yes, 20, here do you wanna talk to 'em?"
Dispatch: "Okay."
HJ: "Hello? Hello?"
Dispatch: "Okay. I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people."
HJ: "Okay. Sorry. They just gave me the phone."
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "Hello?"
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "No."
----
HJ: "(Bethany) or (Dylan) I need you to - to talking to them, okay? I can't talk to them. I need you to talk to them."
the phone then goes back to DM or BF for the rest of the call

****

HJ, who was Ethan's friend summoned by the girls to help, is the one who went in the house and to Xana's room. This is all IMHO, MOO:

HJ is not present for the first part of the call. He went up, saw that Xana was dead, calls or texts DM or BF telling them to call 911. He doesn't give them any details AT ALL. Literally just something as short as "Call 911 now!" So when DM or BF call 911, they are only operating on what they knew--they'd been calling and texting Xana, she wasn't responding, maybe drunk and passed out--hopefully?

Actually, note that the neighbor is the one who tells dispatch that Xana had been drinking the night before/passed out/not waking up. Even when dispatch asks DM or BF just a few seconds later if X is passed out, DM or BF answers that they really don't know. I imagine the neighbor isn't really clear at that moment on what BF and DM had told her happened the night before. Drunk and passed out is the neighbor's interpretation.

After HJ has come out mid call and BF/DM senses something is wrong from the look on his face/a response that isn't heard on tape/a headshake, I think BF/DM shoves the phone at HJ--hoping that since he had just gone to check on Xana, he would be able to give dispatch better details than she could.

But HJ, imho, is in shock. But when dispatch asks if Xana is breathing, HJ answers unequivocally "No."

If HJ is saying that, it is because he either got close enough to Xana to see that her chest wasn't moving or he got close enough to see enough details that he knew she was dead and way beyond the help of an ambulance. Does he know how to tell the girls that right then, is he just horrified beyond belief, can he even imagine telling the girls right there standing outside the house that Xana (and probably everyone else) is dead? Does he figure it really doesn't matter if 911 has specific details right now---because from what he saw there is nothing an ambulance can do?

As soon as he can, he tells the girls he can't talk on the phone.

It appears to me that shortly after that, more than one first responder arrives. I think HJ takes one of them away from DM/BF (they are still on the phone and talking to one of the officers who has arrived about a defibrillator) and tells him what he saw. Because just as soon as DM/BF get off the phone with dispatch, an officer tells dispatch that he thinks they have a homicide..and I think that happens too soon after first responders arrive for them to have gotten into the house and gotten to where Xana is.

I agree with all of the above but think HJ went in the house at the start of the call/wasn’t the one to tell them to call 911. I think the neighbor did. But that doesn’t really matter. What matters is the girls still didn’t see and weren’t “sure” until they saw HJ’s face mid call. It was then that they knew.

 

[justwannahelp]

This article is from about two months after Xana, Ethan, Maddie and Kaylee were killed, but given the release of the 911 call transcript I think it’s worth reposting.
Alanna Zabel was 19 years old in 1992 when a man broke into her sorority house and raped and very nearly killed one of her roommates, beating her with a hammer and leaving her for dead.

She slept through an attack in her home - and has a message about the Idaho murders

There are many chilling similarities between the murders of four Idaho students in November and a 1992 attack at a student home in Buffalo – none more so than the experiences of the roommates who survived. Alanna Zabel tells Rachel Sharp why she feels the need to defend the surviving roommate in...

www.the-independent.com

One night in September – in the excitement of the fall semester – the roommates had gone to a party at the Sigma Chi fraternity nearby.

The victim was first to head home in the early hours of the morning.

When Ms Zabel arrived home some time later, the door was locked and she couldn’t get hold of her roommate to let her into the house.

In typically comic student fashion, she clambered carefree through the bathroom window.

Once inside, she noticed that it “smelled weird”. She called out to her roommate, but after hearing heavy breathing coming from her bedroom she left her alone – simply assuming that her roommate and roommate’s boyfriend were inside.

“I was drunk and didn’t understand why it smelled weird and I just kind of crashed in my room,” she says.

(Below is a bit later in the article where she also discusses finding her roommate the next morning)

The next morning, she discovered her sorority sister in a pool of blood.

Except even then, she explains that she didn’t even realise it was blood.

“I had really unique experience as I found my housemate and I didn’t see the blood,” she says.

“I just saw liquid. My friend was taking her pulse and I thought that she had choked on her own vomit. Right away I said it was vomit.

“Then when the paramedics arrived, they stepped into the room and said the word ‘blood’.

“And in that millisecond the entire room was red.”

Ms Zabel says she has since learned that her mind leaped into a defence mechanism to help her deal with the trauma of what she was seeing and experiencing.

Interesting

 

[mrjitty]

What do you all make of this piece of info? It is part of Motion in Limine 6. If I understand this correctly (and I may not be), BK was able to be excluded from the sample found/noted as on the back of knife sheath…?

“An area identified as Q1.4, "swabs of stains on back" of the sheath, tested presumptively positive for blood and was DNA tested. Mr. Kohberger was excluded from this particular sample which was identified as a mixture (ISP Lab Report M2022-4843, #4). Thus, the government has the burden to prove the when and how of the DNA identified in Q1.1.”

From page 10 here https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...Rylene-Nowlin-Reference-Touch-Contact-DNA.pdf

So I am guessing this must be the discourse offsite because you are asking the same strained interpretation that we already spent pages addressing?

I can't see anything important about this at all. Much as I get frustrated with ATs attempts to imply things without ever fronting the evidence, I really don't think she is doing that here. She just says that blood is not BKs - which is important to the defence.

Nowhere is she saying there is some unknown contributor.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Not Trying to be obtuse, but the dispatcher talks to these people and some sound like first responders, like

Man 4: "Moscow 46 out."
Or
Man 4: "13. I think we have a homicide."
Man 5: "Moscow engine 20 is en route."
Man 4: "13 70."
Man 2: "70 (unintelligible). 107 I relayed it."

"The declarations were made immediately after H.J. discovered Kernodle's body" could mean anybody who was on the scene. "I think we have a homicide" sure sounds like someone describing what was on the scene.

ETA: I'm just wondering what the definition of "declarant" is or maybe just is in regards what they plan to allow. It's not important, just curious.

I think the state is just saying nothing in this call is hearsay for the purposes required - so It can come in. They all talk about various things in a spontaneous and excited manner. i.e their 'declarations' are not hearsay, as they are in the moment

 

[NCWatcher]

apologies as this won’t be a popular opinion but this prosecution does not have to inform them (or any of the victims’ families) before a motion like this containing some information becomes public. I’ve repeatedly worried that some of their expectations are set so unrealistically that they’re almost doomed from the start. And, sadly, I haven’t gotten the impression that this prosecution team is going out of their way to warn the families of some of this info becoming public before trial. And, if they believe they deserve to have some sort of heads up, I really worry they’re going to continue to be let down and hurt. it’s sad to see, but perhaps come trial they will have been able to adjust some of their expectations a bit more. I wish the Victim’s advocate services, especially in the bigger county now, could help them with some of this. The fact that they feel blindsided makes me believe that they didn’t even think something like this being released before trial was a possibility, and that’s a type of conversation that can be had and can help adjust their expectations so that they’re not continually getting hurt as more continues to come out. JMOO.

I agree. And I don't quite understand what the attorney (Shanon Gray) the Goncalves family hired must be telling them. I've wondered for a long time if he was agitating them and leading them to think they were owed "explanations of" and "consultations about" state actions. They (and some other families) certainly did seem to feel the families should be allowed to vote on whether the state pursued the death penalty. And very early on (within a month of the murders before BK was arrested) the attorney said the families were owed "more accountability" by the Moscow PD.

The MPD offers victim assistance. Victim Assistance | Moscow, ID. (Additional resources are offered for DV victims by private groups.)

The victim assistance webpage notes (among other things) victims/family victims) have a right to

To be notified of the date and time of all court proceedings in this case and to be present at those proceedings.

To communicate with the prosecutor and be advised of a possible plea agreement by the prosecuting attorney.

But it seems some families in this case seem to expect much more. (Note the material about a plea agreements preserves the right to be advised of a possible plea agreement offered by the state, not that victims can veto an agreement. I don't think an agreement will be offered by the DA anyway. And the more outspoken families are ONE of many reasons I doubt it.) But it seems the family expected the university should have consulted with them and allowed a veto before tearing down the Kings Rd house, a house that both sides (state and defense) said was no longer needed for the trial, a house that was missing flooring and dangerous for many reasons for untrained people to enter, a house that required huge security expenditures by the university to prevent unauthorized entry....

Fortunately most people aren't closely related to murder victims, much less to people killed in a mass murder. So I'm sure most of us wouldn't know exactly what PDs and DAs were expected to do with us/for us every step of the way. But I really do wonder what SG has been telling the Goncalves family.

I don't know if victim's assistance would be available to the families in the larger county you mention--Ada County. Those services appear to be offered through the prosecutor's office & while the case will be tried there, Ada County isn't prosecuting the case. But I'm skeptical those services would help. Trial delay may be helpful though in helping families adjust their expectations (although I know the some of the families have said they are upset the trial hasn't already happened with punishment levied. But delays may be a blessing in disguise.)
MOO

 

[jepop]

I'm a 6'2" 200lbs grown adult. I can barely look at a scraped knee.

I don't think it stretches the imagination that these kids knew something horrible happened and none of them wanted to discover their friends in a horrible state.

I'm with you. It all sounds completely human and natural to me. I can empathise easily with a strong unconscious urge to deny, the confusion, the impossibility. The last thing on anyone's mind would have been "they have been knifed to death" imo. Even if HJ had seen blood ( or BF, DM or whoever) I believe the mind will often reject that conclusion especially if it is an experience unknown. What a complete shock it must have been for the victims' friends and housemates.

How well they did in the circumstances. Jmo

 

[jepop]

Perceived doesn't just mean obtaining information directly by sight/sound/taste/smell/touch. It also means to have gained awareness or understanding of something.

The female neighbor (who I think could be EA), has a perception of what has happened based what she's been able to get from DM/BF. DM/BF have a perception of what the situation might be in that very moment based on their observations and discussions the night before.

Exactly what I was about to comment on but your post says it all. Moo

 

[jepop]

I think BF/DM didn't see Xana, HJ is the only one who did and didn't give details to BF/DM. Been thinking about what HJ might have seen or not, and I've changed my mind. He did see...and was not telling the girls, IMHO.

Here's why:

The transcript is hard because there aren't time stamps on each line, and at many points it appears that people are speaking over each other (like other first responders later in the transcript) and some lines seem like they are things that are heard on the 911 tape not because that person is currently speaking on the phone but because they are heard in the background.

According to the transcript and what we glean from reading:
A: answerer female DM or BF
A1: another female answerer, who identified herself as a neighbor
A2: answerer male--HJ

For the first part of the call we've only had the voices of DM/BF and the neighbor both directly speaking on the phone or heard in the background. Then dispatch starts pressing BF or DM on whether or not their roommate is currently passed out/cutting her off before she can explain what happened in the middle of the night.

DM/BF seems to indicate that they are going to physically head back to the house/to the room to check. IMHO, it seems like HJ comes out then, DM/BF sees his face and is asking him what's going on/what he saw. She then puts the phone in HJ's hand after stating Xana's age:

DM/BF: "Yeah, I'll come - come on. Let's - we gotta go check. But we have to. Is she passed out? She's passed out. What's wrong?"
Dispatch: "Dispatching Moscow Law ambulance for..."
DM/BF: "She's not waking up."
Dispatch: "...unconsciousness, 1122 King Road."
(bunch of dispatch two different first responders talking over each other)
HJ: "Yeah. Yeah, it's (Evan)." (IMHO, heard in the background of DM/BF being on the phone. I think he might have said Ethan)
Dispatch: "20 you said?"
DM/BF: "Yes, 20, here do you wanna talk to 'em?"
Dispatch: "Okay."
HJ: "Hello? Hello?"
Dispatch: "Okay. I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people."
HJ: "Okay. Sorry. They just gave me the phone."
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "Hello?"
Dispatch: "Is she breathing?"
HJ: "No."
----
HJ: "(Bethany) or (Dylan) I need you to - to talking to them, okay? I can't talk to them. I need you to talk to them."
the phone then goes back to DM or BF for the rest of the call

****

HJ, who was Ethan's friend summoned by the girls to help, is the one who went in the house and to Xana's room. This is all IMHO, MOO:

HJ is not present for the first part of the call. He went up, saw that Xana was dead, calls or texts DM or BF telling them to call 911. He doesn't give them any details AT ALL. Literally just something as short as "Call 911 now!" So when DM or BF call 911, they are only operating on what they knew--they'd been calling and texting Xana, she wasn't responding, maybe drunk and passed out--hopefully?

Actually, note that the neighbor is the one who tells dispatch that Xana had been drinking the night before/passed out/not waking up. Even when dispatch asks DM or BF just a few seconds later if X is passed out, DM or BF answers that they really don't know. I imagine the neighbor isn't really clear at that moment on what BF and DM had told her happened the night before. Drunk and passed out is the neighbor's interpretation.

After HJ has come out mid call and BF/DM senses something is wrong from the look on his face/a response that isn't heard on tape/a headshake, I think BF/DM shoves the phone at HJ--hoping that since he had just gone to check on Xana, he would be able to give dispatch better details than she could.

But HJ, imho, is in shock. But when dispatch asks if Xana is breathing, HJ answers unequivocally "No."

If HJ is saying that, it is because he either got close enough to Xana to see that her chest wasn't moving or he got close enough to see enough details that he knew she was dead and way beyond the help of an ambulance. Does he know how to tell the girls that right then, is he just horrified beyond belief, can he even imagine telling the girls right there standing outside the house that Xana (and probably everyone else) is dead? Does he figure it really doesn't matter if 911 has specific details right now---because from what he saw there is nothing an ambulance can do?

As soon as he can, he tells the girls he can't talk on the phone.

It appears to me that shortly after that, more than one first responder arrives. I think HJ takes one of them away from DM/BF (they are still on the phone and talking to one of the officers who has arrived about a defibrillator) and tells him what he saw. Because just as soon as DM/BF get off the phone with dispatch, an officer tells dispatch that he thinks they have a homicide..and I think that happens too soon after first responders arrive for them to have gotten into the house and gotten to where Xana is.

This is a great post and tons of work and thought. Really appreciate your perspective which I share. Jmo

 

[jepop]

What do you all make of this piece of info? It is part of Motion in Limine 6. If I understand this correctly (and I may not be), BK was able to be excluded from the sample found/noted as on the back of knife sheath…?

“An area identified as Q1.4, "swabs of stains on back" of the sheath, tested presumptively positive for blood and was DNA tested. Mr. Kohberger was excluded from this particular sample which was identified as a mixture (ISP Lab Report M2022-4843, #4). Thus, the government has the burden to prove the when and how of the DNA identified in Q1.1.”

From page 10 here https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...Rylene-Nowlin-Reference-Touch-Contact-DNA.pdf

There's a fair amount of discussion on this point just a few pages back.