4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

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  • #241
The defense's going to need a witness to counter the prosecutions medical examiner . And say that the wounds could not have or were unlikely to been inflicted by a Ka-Bar. IMO.

And the thing is....even then it's not proof that the killer just didn't use the same sized or smaller knife to commit the murders. I just don't see any reasonable scenario where the juror goes...."ya this sheath is totally not connected to the murders" MOO

And that's assuming that they don't have an Amazon receipt for the knife and/or sheath.
I have no doubt they mapped the depth and dimensions of the stab wounds. There is likely bruising from the guard on the hilt around the wounds. I think they're going to be sure with a high degree of certainty the style and size of knife. The sheath is just going to give the perfect tangible corroboration for that body evidence, which is based on interpretation.

MOO
 
  • #242
if it wasn't the k bar then the sheaf if for any reason didn't belong in the house (ie resident found ti and bought it home) then it would obviously be a attempt to frame and the real killer would have to be stupid to use a different knife than the one that belonged tot he sheaf. if it was a k bar that didn't belong to BK then the killer would have to know that BK owned a k bar narrowing potential suspects.

you would also have to entertain the idea that the knife sheaf was found by MM and taken home and left on her bed. she doesnt seem the type to use a knife sheaf for a cuddle toy.
 
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  • #243
I'm still waiting to see a single shred of evidence pointing to multiple knives and/or another person with a knife.

the reason i don't put any value into the handrail dna is that there's no other supporting evidence that points to BK having an accomplice or someone else doing it. just one tiny piece in support of the handrail DNA would likely change my mind. MOO

I'm still waiting.

MOO
It's in a location the killer isn't believed to have been.

It's a single spot of blood. No corresponding blood was found anywhere in the house, which one would expect if the offender had cut himself.

Factoring in the sheath, this blood is not exculpatory. It merely opens the door to the possibility BK had an accomplice.

Lots of issues with that one. It's not necessary, as this could have easily been committed by one man. The witness only saw one man. No evidence has been uncovered from BK's communications, and this isn't a guy who plays well with others to begin with. I mean, how the hell is he going to get someone to go alone with this anyway?

Double the killers means double the evidence, and a single blood spot ain't it.

I've said it a million times, but I believe he profiles as an organized serial killer. They always work alone, and his motivations were personal. He hated women (jibes with the crime scene), he had anger issues (jibes with the crime scene), and he was going to show up law enforcement by committing the perfect crime. He was going to be somebody, and take out his rage on those women at the same time.
 
  • #244
I have no doubt they mapped the depth and dimensions of the stab wounds. There is likely bruising from the guard on the hilt around the wounds. I think they're going to be sure with a high degree of certainty the style and size of knife. The sheath is just going to give the perfect tangible corroboration for that body evidence, which is based on interpretation.

MOO
...and corroborating testimony addressing the depth and the dimensions of the many stab wounds will be many death scene and autopsy photos, unless the defense's motion to limit or bar inflammatory photos is granted. (crime scene and autopsy photos will absolutely be shown). I believe jurors will have no difficulty in accepting that a knife that fits perfectly into the Ka-Bar sheath left in bed with MM, one that has the DNA of suspect BK, was in fact the murder weapon. JMO
 
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  • #245
Hah, I just finished reading the docs and called this very one out too. We've heard the girls DM and BF were texting each other. It makes sense that DM was uncomfortable and/or annoyed enough to go down to BF's room to sleep and proves, IMO, that she definitely did not see Xana or Ethan.

They had to have been in Xana's bedroom or hallway off of main living area. :(

MOO
They almost had to be IN the bedroom with the door closed or DM was simply walking in the dark looking at her feet. When going down the stairs from the living room, you are staring down the hall to Xana's room.
 
  • #246
It's in a location the killer isn't believed to have been.

It's a single spot of blood. No corresponding blood was found anywhere in the house, which one would expect if the offender had cut himself.

Factoring in the sheath, this blood is not exculpatory. It merely opens the door to the possibility BK had an accomplice.

Lots of issues with that one. It's not necessary, as this could have easily been committed by one man. The witness only saw one man. No evidence has been uncovered from BK's communications, and this isn't a guy who plays well with others to begin with. I mean, how the hell is he going to get someone to go alone with this anyway?

Double the killers means double the evidence, and a single blood spot ain't it.

I've said it a million times, but I believe he profiles as an organized serial killer. They always work alone, and his motivations were personal. He hated women (jibes with the crime scene), he had anger issues (jibes with the crime scene), and he was going to show up law enforcement by committing the perfect crime. He was going to be somebody, and take out his rage on those women at the same time.
Always is a strong word, there have been serial killer teams in the past who fit the profile of organised.

I agree with the rest. I don't think he worked with anyone, he's too much of an antisocial loner, and I think if they hadn't caught him in short order, he would have done something like this again as soon as he got up the nerve or had the urge.

MOO
 
  • #247
Yes @iamshadow21 …. and this IMO was not just any particular sheath. This is one that had apparently been forensically cleaned by someone or somehow…… with all except one missed area. Where trace evidence was located forensically that ties to arrested and charged suspect BK.
SBMFF

Page 78
AT Reading the email that's been placed in front of you, does that refresh your recollection about what you believed to be the place the sheath was swabbed?
A. Very much so.
Q. Where was it swabbed?
A. The entire leather portion of the strap, both top and bottom, and then the underside of the button. I misspoke, she did not swab the top of the button because that was determined to be the most likely place for fingerprints to be found.

Page 10
An area identified as Q1.4, “swabs of stains on back” of the sheath, tested presumptively positive for blood and was DNA tested. Mr. Kohberger was excluded from this particular sample which was identified as a mixture.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...Rylene-Nowlin-Reference-Touch-Contact-DNA.pdf

JMO
 
  • #248
SBMFF

Page 78
AT Reading the email that's been placed in front of you, does that refresh your recollection about what you believed to be the place the sheath was swabbed?
A. Very much so.
Q. Where was it swabbed?
A. The entire leather portion of the strap, both top and bottom, and then the underside of the button. I misspoke, she did not swab the top of the button because that was determined to be the most likely place for fingerprints to be found.

Page 10
An area identified as Q1.4, “swabs of stains on back” of the sheath, tested presumptively positive for blood and was DNA tested. Mr. Kohberger was excluded from this particular sample which was identified as a mixture.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...Rylene-Nowlin-Reference-Touch-Contact-DNA.pdf

JMO
Swabbed means where they took samples for testing using cotton buds, not that the sheath was cleaned.

MOO
 
  • #249
House was completely renovated and the staircase and bannister where the blood was found was only built in 2019 and the house was not occupied until 2020. People don't normally go to each others houses and bleed all over the place. Considering what had happened in the house, it is more likely than not that it was a fresh bloodstain. Everyone who went in that house after the murders said blood was everywhere and it was a real mess. When I watched CSI process the house on TV, you could see they spent a lot of time in the living room and around the bannister on the second floor with swabs. They were also very interested in the bathroom on that floor. IMO, it would not be surprising for DM to have come into contact with blood in that area. She may or may not have felt it. Certainly, I've found something on my hand that I didn't know how it got there. That's not unusual. My main concern is LE had some evidence that it does not appear they completely investigated. If that was DM's DNA on the bannister, it would support her story.

House was completely renovated and the staircase and bannister where the blood was found was only built in 2019 and the house was not occupied until 2020. People don't normally go to each others houses and bleed all over the place. Considering what had happened in the house, it is more likely than not that it was a fresh bloodstain. Everyone who went in that house after the murders said blood was everywhere and it was a real mess. When I watched CSI process the house on TV, you could see they spent a lot of time in the living room and around the bannister on the second floor with swabs. They were also very interested in the bathroom on that floor. IMO, it would not be surprising for DM to have come into contact with blood in that area. She may or may not have felt it. Certainly, I've found something on my hand that I didn't know how it got there. That's not unusual. My main concern is LE had some evidence that it does not appear they completely investigated. If that was DM's DNA on the bannister, it would support her story.
Um, the murders happened in 2022. Two years later- plenty of time for it to be old blood stains, and it was a party house. No one said that there was "blood all over the place" from the railing. Could have just been from a bloody nose or cut from a party-goer.
 
  • #250
I do not consider a knife holder to be part of a knife. I do not consider a holster to be part of a gun. I do not consider a glass container to be part of a poisonous substance that might be placed in it. I do not consider an aquarium to be part of the deadly fish it may hold.

Please note I did not say the sheath wasn't potentially important. A holster, glass container, or an aquarium might be important in other situations. But in most situations I don't consider holders or cases to be parts of the thing they may (or may not) hold. You may find that view astonishing but I'm just as astonished people would think the opposite. Fortunately, we are all entitled to our opinions. Because both viewers are simply that-- personal opinions. Not hard facts, just opinions.
MOO
The sheath doesn't get there without the knife. It's the logic of a circumstantial case. There's no good reason for his sheath to be under/near the murder victim(s), and no reason for someone to frame him.
 
  • #251
You can argue whatever opinion you wish, of course. But espousing a viewpoint/perspective/opinion while calling opposing views "illogical" doesn't make your view objectively true.

A knife and a sheath may be a matched set but in this case, the murder knife (assuming there was only one) has not been located. So, no, you've not convinced me the sheath is part of the missing knife.
MOO
That will be established at trial that the sheath is from the murder weapon. You can have a knife without a sheath, but a sheath by itself is purposeless without the knife.
 
  • #252
The sheath doesn't get there without the knife. It's the logic of a circumstantial case. There's no good reason for his sheath to be under/near the murder victim(s), and no reason for someone to frame him.
I never said BK was framed. I never said the sheath wouldn't be important at the trial. I did say, and still think, a knife sheath is not part of a knife. I did say, and still think, DNA found on the sheath is not the same as DNA found on the murder weapon (the still missing weapon in this case.)
MOO
 
  • #253
Yes @iamshadow21 …. and this IMO was not just any particular sheath. This is one that had apparently been forensically cleaned by someone or somehow…… with all except one missed area. Where trace evidence was located forensically that ties to arrested and charged suspect BK.
Swabbed means where they took samples for testing using cotton buds, not that the sheath was cleaned.

MOO
I know what swabbing is.
I was pointing out that it wasn't just the snap that was swabbed AND there is male blood DNA on the back of the sheath (not BKs) so it was not as the OP suggested (a cleaned sheath with only one missed area and only BKs DNA on the sheath)
JMO
 
  • #254
That will be established at trial that the sheath is from the murder weapon. You can have a knife without a sheath, but a sheath by itself is purposeless without the knife.
As I've said repeatedly, I'm sure the sheath will play a big role at the trial. It may or may not be established at trial that the sheath found matches a weapon that has not yet been found. While much can be said about the probable knife used by examining the wounds on the bodies, personally I'm not sure it will be possible to say the wounds were made by a particular brand of knife. But we'll see. And yes, a knife can kill without a sheath. So it seems, as I've said, a sheath is not a part of a knife used as a murder weapon.
MOO
 
  • #255
IMO AT has seen the reports and knows what the evidence is.

JMO
I agree and I would be shocked if she didn't do her own testing--the idea that all this other blood evidence is out there and the defense is just sitting around wondering what's up with that does not match what we know about this defense team. If it's beneficial to them, they'll use it. If it's not, they'll just point at it as being unknown and let it create reasonable doubt.
JMO
 
  • #256
I know what swabbing is.
I was pointing out that it wasn't just the snap that was swabbed AND there is male blood DNA on the back of the sheath (not BKs) so it was not as the OP suggested (a cleaned sheath with only one missed area and only BKs DNA on the sheath)
JMO
Admittedly, I just breezed through that document--couldn't the mixture of blood on the sheath be from MM and KG?
JMO
 
  • #257
I’ve seen discussion upthread with regard to organized killers. Just so happens I was reading about organized crimes vs. disorganized crimes last night and though I’d share informative article at link below.

After reading and digesting the article, it’s my belief the (alleged) quadruple killer BK, is a mix of organized and disorganized offender with imo a heavy lean toward/more traits of an organized killer. IMO.

*Snipped from article and BBM:

“The breakthrough idea of classifying serial homicide crime scenes according to an organized/disorganized dichotomy is credited to the late, pioneering FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood. His theory is grounded in a series of in-depth prison interviews with serial predators that were conducted by legendary FBI agents John Douglas and the late Robert Ressler.”

“According to the offender and crime scene dichotomy, organized crimes are premeditated and carefully planned, so little evidence is normally found at the scene. Organized criminals, according to the classification scheme, are antisocial (often psychopathic) but know right from wrong, are not insane and show no remorse.”

“Based on historical patterns, organized killers are likely to be above average to average intelligence, attractive, married or living with a domestic partner, employed, educated, skilled, orderly, cunning and controlled. They have some degree of social grace, may even be charming, and often talk and seduce their victims into being captured.”

“With organized offenders, there are typically three separate crime scenes: where the victim was approached by the killer, where the victim was killed, and where the victim’s body was disposed of. Organized killers are very difficult to apprehend because they go to inordinate lengths to cover their tracks and often are forensically savvy, meaning they are familiar with police investigation methods. They are likely to follow the news media reports of their crimes and may even correspond with the news media. Ted Bundy, Joel Rifkin, and Dennis Rader are prime examples of organized killers.”

“Disorganized crimes, in contrast, are not planned and the criminals typically leave evidence such as fingerprints or blood at the scene of the murder. There is often no attempt to move or otherwise conceal the corpse after the murder. Disorganized criminals may be young, under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or mentally ill. They often have deficient communication and social skills and may be below average in intelligence. The disorganized offender is likely to come from an unstable or dysfunctional family.”

“Significantly, disorganized killers will often “blitz” their victims—that is, use sudden and overwhelming force to assault them. The victim’s body is usually left where the attack took place and the killer makes no attempt to hide it. Jack the Ripper is a classic example of the disorganized serial killer.”

“It is also important to note that a serial murder case can also be a mix of organized and disorganized. This occasionally occurs, for example, when there are multiple offenders of different personality types involved in the killings. It can also occur when a lone offender is undergoing a psychological transformation throughout his killing career.”


IMHOO

ETA-punctuation
 
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  • #258
Admittedly, I just breezed through that document--couldn't the mixture of blood on the sheath be from MM and KG?
JMO
That's very likely imo
 
  • #259
  • #260
I would go so far as to say almost certain. JMO
Yea, I'm sure it's mentioned in the transcript 23 Jan that there was victim blood on the sheathe. There were only a number of posts on this not long ago! Isn't, it a no brainer?
 
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